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Please Help!! How do I replace the kickstart quadrant? Got the gas tank back in but can't get it to kick over, and think you guys are right about the quadrant being wrong or messed up because I don't get full motion on a kick without leaning the bike to the side...then the angle makes it hard to kick (foot slipped off and lever bit me back hard ). I haven't messed with the carb yet, and it could be part of the "failure to start" problem but I'm sure the kickstart is an issue so I might as well get it fixed....now...How? My restore and rebuild book doesn't cover just doing the kickstart quadrant. Someone said I didn't have to drop the engine...
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to replace the lever you need to drop the motor.
to replace the quad you will need to drop the motor and split the cases.

more than likely your lever is just stripped or wrong. try starting there.

best,
-greasy
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You might as well well do a small rebuild while its open..
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gatekeep wrote:
You might as well well do a small rebuild while its open..
+1

Replace the wear items while you're in there. Shifting cross, bearings, etc.
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Agree with everything said above.

The nice thing about replacing the quadrant is that you only have to pull the flywheel and your stator and split the cases - you don't need to go pulling the clutch or the crankshaft. You'll have to remove the cylinder in order to split the case halves, though, which will likely require removing the exhaust.
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Okay, thanks! The former owner supposedly did a complete engine rebuild in 2003 (I have the parts purchase and installation lists of what was replaced) and then only put 2.4 miles on it so I don't think anything should be worn...but you never really know til you open it up... I think Rover Eric was right and they just put the wrong quadrant in (hopefully that and not something worse). I've already got new seals to install but do I need to get any special tools for this?
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Not to split the cases, no. Just go slow and methodical.

The flywheel is a self-extracting one. I use my air-powered socket wrench to remove it, as it doesn't require me locking up the flywheel with a screwdriver handle jammed in between the fins and the gear selector box ( which will do, if you don't have the air tool and are just using a normal socket )

1) Remove the carb and cylinder shroud
2) remove the exhaust
3) remove the head and cylinder
4) Remove the flywheel shroud
5) remove the gear selector box ( leave the cables attached )
6) Remove the flywheel
7 ) remove the junction box and disconnect the wires that run to the stator
8) remove the stator ( making sure you notch the stator / cases so you can put it back exactly as it was and line it up properly )
9) remove all the nuts / bolts that hold the cases together. There's usually like 10-11
10 ) Using the kickstart lever, you can kinda work the two case halves apart. If the cases were split back in 2003, they shouldn't be that hard to come apart.

do your work and reassemble in the opposite direction.
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2003 rebuild and you need to replace the Kick gear? Was it replaced then?

Must have been some serious kick-in goin on...
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Can you take a close up picture of the side of the kickstart lever, where the quadrant spline goes into the kickstart lever itself ( forgive me if i've already asked for this, you've posted, and i said "ok - the lever is fine, your quadrant is wrong" )
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wonder if they just forgot to put the spring back in, since tilting it allows engagement. either way, that engine has to come apart.
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Here are those pics you asked for Rover Eric...sorry I didn't get them posted before...
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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Good. Now ( sorry to bug ) can you take a SIDE view of the same pic ...like..swivel yourself out 90 degrees to the left and shoot the same thing.
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Quote:
Rover Eric Tue May 19, 2009 6:21 am
Good. Now ( sorry to bug ) can you take a SIDE view of the same pic ...like..swivel yourself out 90 degrees to the left and shoot the same thing.
OH!, you mean the OTHER side...
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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Just take it all apart and do a rebuild in the long run you will be much happier , that way 4 months from now when something else internal goes wrong and your yelling and screaming

well you get the point !!!
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wait wait.

There's part of the problem right there splines have slipped a bit.

Take off the kickstart lever, clean out the inside splines a bit ( i bet they've been smeared a bit ), and remount it paying attention to making the teeth match up.

I bet you'll be back where it needs to be again, with no need to crack the cases.

If the inside of the kickstart lever ( which is made of soft aluminum ) is too ground up and the splines aren't crisp, buy a new lever or this will be happening to you again soon.

Tighten it back on GOOD - it's very hard to get it as tight as it needs to go, i've found.
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Rover Eric wrote:
wait wait.

There's part of the problem right there splines have slipped a bit.

Take off the kickstart lever, clean out the inside splines a bit ( i bet they've been smeared a bit ), and remount it paying attention to making the teeth match up.

I bet you'll be back where it needs to be again, with no need to crack the cases.

If the inside of the kickstart lever ( which is made of soft aluminum ) is too ground up and the splines aren't crisp, buy a new lever or this will be happening to you again soon.

Tighten it back on GOOD - it's very hard to get it as tight as it needs to go, i've found.
just to add one thing to erics "saving you big bucks splitting case assesment"

good fuel-good compression-good spark-easy kick

same thing happend to me and i just got better at starting MY bike.

each bike starts alittle differently
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Jez...looks like the teeth are not even lined up...do what Eric said and give it a good clean..maybe with a wire brush or something? Then give it a good look over..hopefully there is still some edge to them and not totally rounded off..Then line up those teeth and you might be ok.
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you may want to get a small triangular file... but if it's been messed up, just get another. The SS, GS and Rally kickstart levers are all the same.
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Rover Eric wrote:
you may want to get a small triangular file... but if it's been messed up, just get another. The SS, GS and Rally kickstart levers are all the same.
Yeah..cause when it slips after a hard kick..you will be lettn' out cuss words you didn't even know existed..
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Re: Replacing Kickstart Quadrant? - 1966 SS 180
CAOscape wrote:
Please Help!! How do I replace the kickstart quadrant? Got the gas tank back in but can't get it to kick over, and think you guys are right about the quadrant being wrong or messed up because I don't get full motion on a kick without leaning the bike to the side...then the angle makes it hard to kick (foot slipped off and lever bit me back hard ). I haven't messed with the carb yet, and it could be part of the "failure to start" problem but I'm sure the kickstart is an issue so I might as well get it fixed....now...How? My restore and rebuild book doesn't cover just doing the kickstart quadrant. Someone said I didn't have to drop the engine...
CAOscape,

Have you EVER been able to ride this bike yet? I know you were waiting for your Motorcycle Safety Course before you rode it. Then there was abunch of stuff with re-blasting and coating your tank.

Reason why I'm asking is Tammy and I would like to see another scoot putt-putting around Saint Louis.

j
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No, I haven't had this %&^$$! scoot going yet!
Hey oldstlraver! Nah, haven't had this blankin scooter going yet. (I'm starting to think "Valentina" likes to look pretty in the garage. Primadonna type.)
I'm seeing Vintage Vespas all around town though, just not mine! Crying or Very sad emoticon I saw a black Rally 200 in Kirkwood near the Subway, a black some kinda Vespa with a sidecar on the road at Delmar and 170, and a blue Baja Chetak chained up in front of the Wal-Mart in Maplewood.
I do, however, now have my motorcycle license, gas tank sorted out, and now thanks to Rover Eric a new kickstart lever on and that sorted out...but STILL non va!!! (Mentally cursing in Italian here...) Leaves the Carb, which doesn't suprise me but... I want to be out there riding!!!!!!
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Kickstart Lever
Rover Eric, great catch on the kickstart lever. Thank you once again!

You wouldn't BELIEVE how stripped out it was. I swear I looked at it when I got it because I didn't like how low it was hanging either...didn't look like it would get full travel, so luckily I had already purchased a replacement. The quadrant was real worn down in the back where the lever was stripped worst but I put the new one on for now and called it a night. Figure I'll get a spare lever this summer and replace it and the quadrant in the fall. It now kicks correctly but is still not starting...now I need to look into the Carb. Tank and petcock working correctly, fuel in the new line, but doesn't seem like it is getting any farther than that. Lucky me, I already got a carb rebuild kit in anticipation of this...All that gunk in the tank before and sitting for so long...
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Have you ever seen the bike run?


If it were me, and i was getting impatient, i might spray a little starter fluid in the carb and see if it fires up. I know it's not a good thing to do very often, but for the sake of getting a bike that hasn't run for a while running again, it serves my purposes. What's important is watching what happens after it kicks over.... does the fuel keep it idling properly, does it die, does it start at all? ( could be HT coil, spark plug, plug wire, etc )
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Quote:
Rover Eric Thu May 21, 2009 6:11 am
Have you ever seen the bike run?
NO, never seen it run, and there are only 2.4miles on the new speedo they put in so it didn't run much back in 2003 when they re-did it (guy is deceased so I can't ask...). I pulled the plug and checked it before, and even without the kickstart going through a full rev it showed a pretty blue arc so I don't think that is it. I'll try the starter fluid now that the lame kickstart is out of the equation before I pull the carburator. I leak/function checked the tank and petcock before I reinstalled so I know it is working well and have gas in the line...but I don't smell any when I turn the tap on and try to start it. Guys at work wanted me to try bumpstarting it instead of fixing the kickstarter but I'm not sure any of the cables are adjusted properly, etc... so I didn't feel comfortable with that.
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CAOscape wrote:
I leak/function checked the tank and petcock before I reinstalled so I know it is working well and have gas in the line...but I don't smell any when I turn the tap on and try to start it. Guys at work wanted me to try bumpstarting it instead of fixing the kickstarter but I'm not sure any of the cables are adjusted properly, etc... so I didn't feel comfortable with that.
Is it me or does anyone else think its weird that you don't smell fuel when you has been trying to start it? I mean, if mine doesn't start and I've turned the throttle a couple of times, I definitely smell gas (or Petrol for you UK brothas). Although there is fuel in the line, you gotta wonder if fuel is actually being sprayed into the engine by the carb.

I'd say do what Eric is asking and spray some starter fluid into the carb just to see if it acts like its trying to come to life.

Wouldn't it be funny if your problem was something as silly as a bunch of mice that built a nest in the exhaust?
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Yeah, I think I should smell gas. Makes me think it isn't getting past the carb intake.
Quote:
Wouldn't it be funny if your problem was something as silly as a bunch of mice that built a nest in the exhaust?
Nah, for some reason I don't think I would find that funny... (my cat would "alert" me to that kind of problem...he really perks up when he smells mice... ) The other things were real problems, so time hasn't been wasted (and I was busy with other projects if you are wondering why this is taking me so long...) but I am definitely going to try out Eric's suggestion tonight or tomorrow. The kickstarter was hanging too low when I bought it so now I think they tried to start it "real hard" but couldn't and just ended up stripping the lever out. When I took the tank out before I found the incorrect size fuel line they had put on had lost it's grip over time and wasn't connected to the petcock, so I thought that explained why they wouldn't have gotten it started. Anyway...I'll have it going soon, hopefully!
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CAOscape wrote:
Yeah, I think I should smell gas. Makes me think it isn't getting past the carb intake.
Quote:
Wouldn't it be funny if your problem was something as silly as a bunch of mice that built a nest in the exhaust?
Anyway...I'll have it going soon, hopefully!
Well, let me know if I can help. Granted, I have only newbie mechanical skillz (Computer Nerd), but I've been tryin'. Plus, I'm off all next week. I do have to install soffit, but I should have time to play around.
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Finally Running!!!
Woo Hoo!!!! Finally running!!! Didn't have to use the starter fluid after all. Got some but also picked up some Sea Foam. Put the Sea Foam in and left the petcock open for a while in hopes that osmosis would move it into the fuel line. Went out tonight and started on the third kick. YEAH! but boo..it then died. Got it going again and it died again. Pulled off the ducting into the airfilter so it could breathe better and finally got it going but without a bit of throttle it kept wanting to die. Adjusted the Air Idle screw until it stopped wanting to die and it kept running. Cables still need adjusting (and I think some of the routing is wrong, they are laying on the muffler of all things...) Ran it around the neighborhood for a while then put the ducting back on as well as the engine cowl and ran it around a bit more. Is the clutch supposed to be so touchy? I popped several wheelies changing gears...course I've never riden a Vespa before so it could just be that way and I need to learn to let the clutch out real slow.

Rover Eric, can you take a picture of the cable routing as they exit the frame so I can know what right is? If not I just might adjust the brakes enough that they will actually stop the bike without using the clutch too and cable-tie the cables out of the way (off the muffler) and drive it down to the Vespa maintenance center/dealership here in town and get them to do it. They can probably help me tune the carb in too, since I don't know what "right" sounds like.

Thanks for all the help everyone!!!
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Yeah, i'll take some pictures for you.

There's a couple of features designed to keep the cables away from the muffler

1) the clutch and gear selector cables go into a plastic sheath that protects them when they come out of the bike and run past the muffler.

2) There's a metal "finger" for lack of a better word that's integral to the frame, that kinda grips them as they come out of the frame.

3) There's a metal arm that attaches to one of the case studs, and it holds the 2 gear selector cables away from the muffler

Glad to hear your bike starts.

Try some basic clutch cable adjustments to get it to not "lurch" ... but it sounds to me like you could have a couple of internal motor problems that are leading to your clutch lurching.

1) the brass push-pin that actuates the clutch. It can develop a groove on the BACK of it ( not the obvious groove on the front of it ) ... but a worn in notch on the back. You want it to be perfectly flat. The more severe the worn-in notch, the more it lurches. This is a really simple part to replace, and cheap ( like $1.00 )

2) The brass cylindrical separator part that goes between the 2 halves of the clutch. This can develop a flat spot, which makes the bike lurch off the line. It also makes a bit of a "honk" sound when it finally grabs. Again, it's an easy part to get to ( provided you have an SS / GS clutch puller ) and a relatively easy part to replace. Costs about $4.00

3) The person who reassembled your engine forgot to replace a small conical shaped washer that sits on the crankshaft between the clutch and the clutchside oil seal. It not only needs to be present, but it needs to be oriented the correct way. This is a hard part to try to source out. I'm actually running without one. Some people swear it's absolutely necessary or you get a lurching clutch, other engines ( like mine ) somehow seem to work fine without it.
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Re: Finally Running!!!
CAOscape wrote:
Woo Hoo!!!! Finally running!!! Didn't have to use the starter fluid after all. Got some but also picked up some Sea Foam. Put the Sea Foam in and left the petcock open for a while in hopes that osmosis would move it into the fuel line. Went out tonight and started on the third kick. YEAH! but boo..it then died. Got it going again and it died again. Pulled off the ducting into the airfilter so it could breathe better and finally got it going but without a bit of throttle it kept wanting to die. Adjusted the Air Idle screw until it stopped wanting to die and it kept running. Cables still need adjusting (and I think some of the routing is wrong, they are laying on the muffler of all things...) Ran it around the neighborhood for a while then put the ducting back on as well as the engine cowl and ran it around a bit more. Is the clutch supposed to be so touchy? I popped several wheelies changing gears...course I've never riden a Vespa before so it could just be that way and I need to learn to let the clutch out real slow.

Rover Eric, can you take a picture of the cable routing as they exit the frame so I can know what right is? If not I just might adjust the brakes enough that they will actually stop the bike without using the clutch too and cable-tie the cables out of the way (off the muffler) and drive it down to the Vespa maintenance center/dealership here in town and get them to do it. They can probably help me tune the carb in too, since I don't know what "right" sounds like.

Thanks for all the help everyone!!!
It must have been the greatest sound ever. When I finally got my PX 150 engine to crank over in my Sprint..I almost started crying for joy...It had been months and months with out riding..I'm stoked for you!
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