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So you've been advised, I'm brand new to the forums (hi everybody!), new to scootering, and new to turning a wrench for the most part, but my dad and I found a project bike for cheap, and it looks like we'll be trying to bring the old girl back to life. Luckily, my dad was a car mechanic for years, so we won't be completely in the dark as far as opening her up, and has worked on motorcycles some as well, but never scooters.

So what I'm looking for here is all the help I can get! Don't worry, I'll ask a little at a time. Right now, what I REALLY NEED is a place to find is a parts listing. I have the owners manual and repair manual in pdf form that I pulled down from the internets (yay internets!) and I'm FAIRLY certain that it's just a Primmy, and not an ET3, but we're still trying to figure that out. Luckily, I found the thread on telling the difference just a little while ago.

In the interest of full disclosure however, I don't have the bike yet. We're trying to figure out exactly what's going to have to happen to restore this thing, where to get started, costs, etc. My dad (again, being the one with the most knowledge) is going to take a look at it Wednesday, but we've talked a good deal with the current owner, and he's hanging on to her for me. According to him, she needs a new kickstart quadrant (already found that thread too!!) including a new spring, and new carb at the least to get her running.

The guy bought the bike and worked on fixing up the frame, doing a bit of welding and banging, but decided he didn't have the time or space anymore, and is basically offloading her onto me. I'm moving her into dad's garage, about an hour away, and will be working with him on her during the weekends. Right now, the only picture I have is at the bottom of this post. The guy took it with his iPhone when he had the frame out to weld the leg shield where it had "torn a bit", however that happens.

If anybody wants to include a good place to find the basics would be great, whatever you think would be best for me to know. I've found a restoration guide on scooterhelp.com, but I haven't gone through it for fear of getting in "over my head" so to speak. Like I said, I need a parts listing of some sort first so I don't end up ordering the wrong stuff and screw this project up from the word go.

For those interested, we're planning on restoring her exactly as she was, including the paint color if we can find it. The only badge left on her is the manufacturer's badge, which has the serial, so we should be able to look all that up. Probably the only thing I don't want to be completely original on her will be the horn. I'm planning on installing a Strebel air horn for safety's sake, and for scaring away any deer. We live out in a little town in the boonies of southeast Georgia. Laughing emoticon
There's more to it than this, but that's the only picture we've got right now.
There's more to it than this, but that's the only picture we've got right now.
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make sure to add www.smallframes.com to your list of tech sites for that bike.
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look on the frame just inside the engine side door for the VIN. The first 5 characters will tell you what it originally was.

VMA1T = Primavera 65-67
VMA2T = Primavera 68- 83
VMB1T = Primavera ET3
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monza wrote:
look on the frame just inside the engine side door for the VIN. The first 5 characters will tell you what it originally was.

VMA1T = Primavera 65-67
VMA2T = Primavera 68- 83
VMB1T = Primavera ET3
Aha! I've seen these numbers on parts sites and things, but had no idea if there was a correlation. This is supposed to be a '71, so I should be looking at either VMA2T unless it's an ET3 right? Awesome info!

Also, thanks for pointing me to smallframes.com. It'll be a great companion to the resto page on scooterhelp.com

Also, does anyone know a good general scooter parts ordering site other than scooterworks.com? I've seen mixed reviews here on the forums, and would love to hear of anyone more reliable and/or cheaper.
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Yeah..it's going to be a VMA2T on the frame, regardless.

Now look on the Engine.. there's a VIN for that as well. Hopefully that says VMB1M and not VMA2M ( the former is ET3, which is a faster engine. The latter is the Stock Primavera engine ...which is fine )
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I'll get back to you on the engine VIN. Like I said, I don't have access to her quite yet. She's still at the previous owner's till I pick her up. I guess I'm just too excited to hold off asking questions.

As a point of clarification, I found the carb I need (19/19) in the repair guide, and scooterworks has it, but its simply listed as "Carburetor, 19/19 SHB VMA2". Is the "VMA2" understood the same as saying "VMA2T", or am I looking at the wrong part?
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It's a primavera. Motor would be too, unless someone swapped it. That carb is correct. Order it from scooter parts direct instead. They are local to you, and much better if you need tech advice.
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Dullivan wrote:
Is the "VMA2" understood the same as saying "VMA2T", or am I looking at the wrong part?
yeah, the engine for a Primmy has a number that starts with VMA2M, and the frame VMA2T

the ET3 used the same carb....
tonysmallframe wrote:
Order it from scooter parts direct instead. .
1)if they have it, 2) if they actually ship it
(can you tell I havent had good luck with them since Joel passed away)
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monza wrote:
(can you tell I havent had good luck with them since Joel passed away)
I haven't ordered from them since Joel passed, either.
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The carb at scooterworks is $109 plus free shipping; anything over $100 that's not massive gets free shipping. Searching for "Primavera 19/19 carb" on scooterpartsdirect.com returned several results, not one of which was less than $300. However, they weren't the same part. As a matter of fact, I think they were all "performance" carbs.
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You want a Dellorto SHB 19/19 carb

That's the standard carb they used in any 125cc smallframe.
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Much better, its also $109 on scooter parts. But now I've gotten mixed reviews from both. *frets*

I'll probably just end up ordering from scooterworks for the carb because shipping is free, even though scooter parts is closer. I'll probably end up using them both by the end of the resto. Thanks for all the help so far. Keep it coming!

I'm still looking for a parts listing for the primavera the way they rolled out of the factory, if such a thing exsists. Some of it's listed in the repair manual, but there's a ton missing. There's no telling what I'll have to replace on this old girl...
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call scooters originali. You won't get bad reviews from them on here.
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Rover Eric wrote:
call scooters originali. You won't get bad reviews from them on here.
100% agree..you will also get either Andrea or Gene on the phone that know what they are talking about...when you call Scooterworks..you get sales people that don't know shit.
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Body looks good love the picture , I hate body work too and your close to me you can come do the body work on mine for to get the feel for it !!!!

I have 9 bodys all stacked ready to get worked on
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Is it another Spec US model? Primavera with 2 large door, same size left and right...
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veloce75 wrote:
Is it another Spec US model? Primavera with 2 large door, same size left and right...
Yes, i think it was US-specific thing, during the 70's, but i'm not sure. It was so you could fit a battery in there. Most Euro bikes in the 70's didn't have batteries, and as such had that little oil compartment on the side like ET3's have.
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FireJ wrote:
Body looks good love the picture , I hate body work too and your close to me you can come do the body work on mine for to get the feel for it !!!!

I have 9 bodys all stacked ready to get worked on
I probably wouldn't mind doing body work, I just never have, and definitely don't have the equipment. Doing it on 9 bikes might be a bit much though. Luckily, not only was my dad a mechanic for years, he now sells automotive paint, so we'll be able to find a place to get all the painting and any additional body work done pretty easily. I know the previous owner took care of the needed welding, and I'm hoping he banged out all the dings.

Dad's going to go check the bike out today. I'm super jealous he gets to see it and I don't. Hopefully it's not a lost cause, and we'll be full steam ahead after this afternoon!
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do a stock US-spec paint color ....for me .... pretty please *bats eyes* ?

The tangerine color or that china blue color are the two colors my friends with 1971 US spec Primaveras have.

Sorry for the bad pics, but anytime you do a google image search of vespas you always get the more common Euro-spec bikes and colors, and not the US-spec, which had different colors, taillights, etc.


tangerine :

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text


china blue:

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
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Rover Eric wrote:
do a stock US-spec paint color ....for me .... pretty please *bats eyes* ?

The tangerine color or that china blue color are the two colors my friends with 1971 US spec Primaveras have.

We're definitely going to try to find the original paint color using the serial and keep it as close to original as possible. Our other option if we can't find the color with the serial is to look inside on some of the nooks and crannies and try to find a patch of old paint. We'll be able to color match that using all this high tech equipment my Dad sells these body shops for free.

If we can't find the true original, we'll keep it spec. I've looked for greens (my favorite) on Primmy's, but can't figure out which ones are stock and which are just people doing what they like. Is there a place I can see some options and know that they're spec?
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Dullivan wrote:
Rover Eric wrote:
do a stock US-spec paint color ....for me .... pretty please *bats eyes* ?

The tangerine color or that china blue color are the two colors my friends with 1971 US spec Primaveras have.

We're definitely going to try to find the original paint color using the serial and keep it as close to original as possible. Our other option if we can't find the color with the serial is to look inside on some of the nooks and crannies and try to find a patch of old paint. We'll be able to color match that using all this high tech equipment my Dad sells these body shops for free.

If we can't find the true original, we'll keep it spec. I've looked for greens (my favorite) on Primmy's, but can't figure out which ones are stock and which are just people doing what they like. Is there a place I can see some options and know that they're spec?
i think eric already suggested smallframe(s).com
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You won't get the color from the VIN - you've got to find a patch.

As for original colors, here are some, but I can't tell which are small vs lagre or US vs Europe (though I'm sure someone else can...).

- Eric
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The problem with most paint code listing sites ( i use this one ; http://www.vespaclub.com/tutte.html ) is that they only typically list the paint colors used on the Euro Spec bikes, and not the ones for US release.

OCCASIONALLY they are the same. For example, for the SS180, it cites red, white and blue as the stock colors ( a couple different shades of red depending on the year ). That was correct for both Euro and US bikes. Same with the GS160 ...same with the GS150, etc.

Some bikes were Euro only release anyways, like the PK or the ET3... .so there was no US spec and separate paint codes.

Other bikes, like the rally 200, listed there in that list ... are missing some of the US spec codes. White and Silver and the Coral red are listed, but not the Blue that was a relatively rare US-Spec color.

In your case, the Euro-spec primavera is pictured, along with the to Euro-spec colors you could get : Biancospino ( white ) and Metallic Maroon. AFAIK, neither of those colors were US releases.

The only 2 US-spec colors i remember for the '71 primavera are the 2 i posted above.

The tangerine shade is, i think "Giallo Arancio", as used on the Rally 180 from the same time period.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

or "Azzuro Cina", pictured here on a Euro-spec smallframe ( notice the taillight )

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
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look in the headset, under the gas tank, take off the centerstand to see under the brackets, inside the horn cast, under the turn signal switch, etc...to find the original color. There is *usually* some evidence somewhere.
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You could try this guy too.
http://www.scootermercato.com/
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MDchanic wrote:
You won't get the color from the VIN - you've got to find a patch.

As for original colors, here are some, but I can't tell which are small vs lagre or US vs Europe (though I'm sure someone else can...).

- Eric
Wow! Great site! Do you speak Italian (I'm assuming that's Italian)? I would have never even clicked on this site in a google search, just because I wouldn't be able to read anything. At least I can tell the years (Anno 19xx) and can figure out the color names pretty easily. I'm guessing the section that says "Codice" would include whatever color code I need. Now to go digging through all these for a '71 green that strikes my fancy.
Quote:
i think eric already suggested smallframe(s).com
I've glanced at smallframes.com a few times, but the site is a bit of a pain to go through. I know clicking on models shows quite a few pictures, but doesn't give me all the colors available for each model. Is there a place for that?
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Dullivan wrote:
but doesn't give me all the colors available for each model. Is there a place for that?
See my link above.
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not to add to an already "colorfull" subject

my et3 is an example of how it dose'nt always add up.

mine is a 76,it is blue(maybe what italians call marina blu?)

the stripes are white(white)

but in reference pics all i find are blu with off blue stripes?

go figure!

since i am growing old of the gray paint scheme i have decided to keep the paint and buff and polish Clown emoticon

alota work to show off alota scratches
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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Rover Eric -

Great link.

I think I may have passed by it once, but it never registered that it not only gives the colors for each year, but also the parts painted (rims silver vs body color, for instance).

Dullivan -

you may be able to use some of the ColoreAmico chips to get an idea of what some of Rover Eric's link's colors look like, though they won't be very accurate on the screen, and all of the ColoreAmico colors don't have chips.

If your father can figure out a way to translate the Euro MaxMeyer paint codes into US codes, he will be a very popular man in the Vespa world.

- Eric
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Rover Eric wrote:
The problem with most paint code listing sites ( i use this one ; http://www.vespaclub.com/tutte.html ) is that they only typically list the paint colors used on the Euro Spec bikes, and not the ones for US release.

OCCASIONALLY they are the same. For example, for the SS180, it cites red, white and blue as the stock colors ( a couple different shades of red depending on the year ). That was correct for both Euro and US bikes. Same with the GS160 ...same with the GS150, etc.

Some bikes were Euro only release anyways, like the PK or the ET3... .so there was no US spec and separate paint codes.

Other bikes, like the rally 200, listed there in that list ... are missing some of the US spec codes. White and Silver and the Coral red are listed, but not the Blue that was a relatively rare US-Spec color.

In your case, the Euro-spec primavera is pictured, along with the to Euro-spec colors you could get : Biancospino ( white ) and Metallic Maroon. AFAIK, neither of those colors were US releases.

The only 2 US-spec colors i remember for the '71 primavera are the 2 i posted above.

The tangerine shade is, i think "Giallo Arancio", as used on the Rally 180 from the same time period.

or "Azzuro Cina", pictured here on a Euro-spec smallframe ( notice the taillight )

Wow, I'm over here trying to put together a few coherent sentences for my last post, and while I'm occupied you go and list of exactly what I'm looking for. You're awesome! Thanks Eric!
Quote:
look in the headset, under the gas tank, take off the centerstand to see under the brackets, inside the horn cast, under the turn signal switch, etc...to find the original color. There is *usually* some evidence somewhere.
It looks like this'll be what we end up doing. Thanks for tips on where to look though. I'm sure we'll be taking the whole thing apart before long, but I appreciate some places to start. Laughing emoticon
Quote:
You could try this guy too.
http://www.scootermercato.com/
Bookmarked! I love to price shop. Thanks for another option. I'm sure it'll come in handy.
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MDchanic wrote:
I think I may have passed by it once, but it never registered that it not only gives the colors for each year, but also the parts painted (rims silver vs body color, for instance).
I'm glad you noticed that. It drives me NUTS when i see someone's restored bike and they've painted something the wrong color because certain bikes had different parts painted silver and others didn't.

There's a constant debate in the GS160 crowd about whether or not the front fork was painted body color or the silver color. I maintain silver, but a lot of folks have done their restorations with white forks.

Another place people always cheap out on is the center stand. Should be silver like the rest of the bike ( on most models ) but many people either do body color or black!
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Quote:
There's a constant debate in the GS160 crowd about whether or not the front fork was painted body color or the silver color. I maintain silver, but a lot of folks have done their restorations with white forks.
Guess I'm in the enemy camp, then.

My German GS was repainted long ago after an accident, a slightly different color white. As I've disassembled it, I have found signs of both the original paint and the later (slapdash) paintjob.

No question my fork was white from the factory, with solid paint on the part below the lower bearing, overspray on the part above, and later paint in the exposed area between the fender and the lower bearing.

I'm going with the white fork when I repaint it.

- (other) Eric
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as far as matching the color when you determine it, dont plan to go into the paint shop with "Giallo Arancio" and expect them to have the formula. I have had this issue in the past on may different vehicles. You can get them the formula that was originally used, but it doesnt translate into a modern paint formula alot of the time, so you end up going though a bunch of paint chips trying to find the nearest match.

My latest paint job was on a 66 Mini that I had the Dupont paint mix from the sixties, but that wasnt useful as the modern Dupont paints didnt mix in the same proportions or some crap. After a few hours of messing with chips I found an industrial engine enamel color that matched 'island blue' perfectly, so had them mix up and shoot a base/clear in that one. The roof was a late model GM color. In the end I have nearly the exact color, just not using the original code and mix.
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Well, we went to go see the scoot that I thought I was getting yesterday. That's right. This is going to be a Crying or Very sad emoticon update.

I drove up to Savannah (2.5 hours) to see this thing after being told it just needed a new kickstart quadrant and carb. The guy was "holding it for me" because he just didn't have the room for it and knew I'd want it for such a "great deal". We get there, and it seems he forgot to mention the missing kickstart, wiring, and wiring or the fact that the seat was nothing but the springs, the suspension was rusted to all hades, the engine had no compression (I was turning the flywheel magneto with my finger with no resistance), wheels and tires were shot, etc etc etc. He was basically trying to sell just a frame and convince someone they could "fix it up", so they could end up with the money pit he picked up from God only knows where.

Alright, enough being with the angry posting.

Oh well, I know there's a better one out there somewhere. I'm glad I've already posted my question about where to find other deals I guess.
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That's when you offer him $200 for the pile.

Still, though....i know that feeling of disappointment well. There's been countless times i went on a wild goosechase for some barn find only to have it be some POS, or the guy wants $3500, or something. I feel your pain.

You'll get yourself something good here soon.
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@dullivan avatar
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Here's an interesting update. After posting ads on craigslist, scoot.net and scootlanta, I got a reply from a guy working in a scooter store in Savannah, who offered to help me look around. I'd mentioned the Primmy in the ad, so he asked about it. Turns out, the guy selling it was working at the store until recently (which he'd told me about), when they found out he stole a bunch of money and fired him!

Well, his scoot was in the shop, totally in pieces. He didn't take it with him when he got fired, so they figured they'd put it back together and sell it. The guy broke in and stole it back, but didn't get all the parts that were lying around, so now he has just the frame. No wonder he wants to sell it. It's kinda sorta partially hot!!!!!!!

Wha? emoticon Wha? emoticon Wha? emoticon Wha? emoticon Wha? emoticon Wha? emoticon
@rover_eric avatar
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1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
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@rover_eric avatar
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
UTC quote
Weird...if you were to break back in and sell something, why would you take one of the least valuable pieces relative to bulk, and the ONLY piece that has a VIN stamped on it that cops can trace? ( yes, i know motors have VINs, but nobody tracks them )

Take the motor! You could find a smallframe frame and slap your primi engine in it and be done. It's easily the most valuable part of the bike.

Not that i advocate stealing, but this is not the first story i've heard of a disgruntled mechanic stealing stuff from a shop. You'd think someone with bike experience would be more logical when it came down to WHAT to thief.
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nothing at all
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nothing at all
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yea,kinda like he'a saying "i'm mad and i'm taking my stuff while your not here just so you know it's me taking my stuff cause i'm mad,nanananana"
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Rover Eric wrote:
Weird...if you were to break back in and sell something, why would you take one of the least valuable pieces relative to bulk, and the ONLY piece that has a VIN stamped on it that cops can trace? ( yes, i know motors have VINs, but nobody tracks them )

Take the motor! You could find a smallframe frame and slap your primi engine in it and be done. It's easily the most valuable part of the bike.

Not that i advocate stealing, but this is not the first story i've heard of a disgruntled mechanic stealing stuff from a shop. You'd think someone with bike experience would be more logical when it came down to WHAT to thief.
jimmyb865 wrote:
yea,kinda like he'a saying "i'm mad and i'm taking my stuff while your not here just so you know it's me taking my stuff cause i'm mad,nanananana"
Believe it or not, both sound pretty spot on. The guy was super sketchy, and didn't seem terribly bright when I met him. He also doesn't sound like he was a great mechanic, or should I say "parts changer", since he both got fired, and got hosed by buying a bike with a rust bucket engine for $500 originally (what he told me), leaving it in the shop he was stealing money from, trying to sell it after stealing it, etc etc.

I've offered the dealer's phone number to the dude that emailed me earlier.
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1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
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Location: Detroit, Michigan
 
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@rover_eric avatar
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
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Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
UTC quote
Yeah... i'd stay out of that shit.

You have no idea how small this community can be, and sticking your nose into their business might come back to haunt you later.
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