J COSTA INSTALL - MP3 400 - with pictures
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Banned
MP3 500
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 4530
Location: Ashburn, Va
Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:58 pm quote
monkeywobble wrote:
jimc wrote:
You want part number 22 from the MP3 400 parts list, the www link to which is in this message!
it does exist! thanks Jim!

i give up, where is the link in your message?

EDIT:

nm, the google found it on athens site. cheers
Look the bottom of his post, you will see
Profile PM EMAIL WWW
The www is a link to a website.
Member
MP3 400
Joined: 30 Sep 2010
Posts: 28
Location: San Francisco, CA
Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:19 pm quote
aaah.
got it. i was reading without signing in. the links don't show up unless you're registered.

thanks again!
Hooked
2009 MP3 500, Red. Had MP3 250, Barron 150 Retro
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 302
Location: Ossining, NY
Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:07 pm quote
silly question
Whats so good about the J Costa up grade?

and if its so good why didn't they make it like that in the first place?

I have a mp3 500 it seems like the thing to do?

Alan
Veni, Vidi, Posti
. . 2008 Blue MP3 400. . di Peluria Orso .... 1993 Kawasaki Vulcan 500 ....... 2013 Honda NC700XD; 2017 Versys X300
Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 6152
Location: Milledgeville, GA
Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:59 am quote
J-Costa is a different propietary design . It is an improvement in performance but many here have had major problems with wear of the bushing and some have had disastrous results from the wear. Consider Dr Pulley sliders and a Fuzzy washer as a low cost, reliable alternative with similar performance improvements.

The stock variator has a spline to ensure it rotates with matching spline on the shaft. J-Costa does not have this spline and relies on the belt friction to rotate the outter half. There is some rotational movement between the outer half and the inner half causing wear in the bushing inside the outer half. The bushing clamps against the washer and the wear will match the washer diameter. J-Costa apparently does this to allow fewer different styles to go on different scooters but it results in a significant weak point. The wear will cause the belt to rid too high and rub against the housing. This will quickly destroy the belt (100 miles or so is all takes. Don't ask me how I know just find and read the thread.) On the 250 it will also pull the gasket out of the oil pan for even more repair cost.

..........Note the spiline in the stock piece on the left and none on the J-Costa piece on the rights.
Banned
MP3 500
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 4530
Location: Ashburn, Va
Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:44 am quote
I wounder if you could get a machine shop, to cut the splines off the oem part and weld it to the J-Costa, then re-balance
Molto Verboso
NC700XD
Joined: 28 Dec 2009
Posts: 1372
Location: Richmond, VA
Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:54 am quote
StooterBoy wrote:
I wounder if you could get a machine shop, to cut the splines off the oem part and weld it to the J-Costa, then re-balance
I'm not sure that would make that much of a difference. The OEM ramp has the four guide posts that keeps the ramps in alignment with the roller slides and the entire assembly spins as a unit. The Jcosta doesn't have the guide pins so the ramp would have a solid contact on the crankshaft, but the roller cage would still be left to spin freely.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37492
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:26 am quote
If the crankshaft nut is done tight enough (i.e. to spec.) the J Costa bell does not rotate at all. The J Costa does comes with a reminder of the torque required...

The J Costa is a bit of kit I'm very glad to have in my Fuoco - but I'd not recommend it to anyone who doesn't have the spare cash, as it is quite a bit more expensive than other 'solutions' that nearly achieve the same result.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
. . 2008 Blue MP3 400. . di Peluria Orso .... 1993 Kawasaki Vulcan 500 ....... 2013 Honda NC700XD; 2017 Versys X300
Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 6152
Location: Milledgeville, GA
Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:26 pm quote
jimc wrote:
If the crankshaft nut is done tight enough (i.e. to spec.) the J Costa bell does not rotate at all. The J Costa does comes with a reminder of the torque required...

The J Costa is a bit of kit I'm very glad to have in my Fuoco - but I'd not recommend it to anyone who doesn't have the spare cash, as it is quite a bit more expensive than other 'solutions' that nearly achieve the same result.
Jim,
The J-Costa bell shown in the picture may not turn but as pointed out by Cage Dodger the mating piece with the suspect bushing does not have anything to keep it from turning in relation to the bell and it can rotate on the shaft. At top speed it will extend and touch the washer the outer pulley half is up against.
Ossessionato
'09 Mp3-500 - Gone Now
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 2065
Location: Happy Valley, Oregon
Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:29 am quote
jimc wrote:
If the crankshaft nut is done tight enough (i.e. to spec.) the J Costa bell does not rotate at all. The J Costa does comes with a reminder of the torque required...

The J Costa is a bit of kit I'm very glad to have in my Fuoco - but I'd not recommend it to anyone who doesn't have the spare cash, as it is quite a bit more expensive than other 'solutions' that nearly achieve the same result.
True, the J Costa is not an inexpensive addition. However, having tried several different sliders and washer combinations and then ultimately installing a J Costa, I think it is worth the price. I have had no mechanical issues, installation was easy, and the operation is smooth and reliable. YMMV
Ossessionato
R.I.P. ----K.I.T.T.500, Agent Orange (400)
Joined: 04 Jul 2008
Posts: 2670
Location: Rockford, IL
Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:06 pm quote
Since we're on the subject of costs and variators, has anyone tried the Malossi Multi-var or Polini variators which are about $150 less than the JCosta brand new? I've been contemplating a Malossi, but the reviews are few and far between. There is a video on youtube of one on a Tmax at work, but that's about it.
Member
Gilera Fuoco 500 (MP3 500 in USA)
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 41
Location: Rome
Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:15 am quote
I had the Malossi variator up to two weeks ago, then I installed the new FR4, a real bomb!
With Malossi I was very good, good performance and affidability.
We do not use the Jcosta, the few who have it installed have had many problems.
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4039
Location: Netherlands Olst
Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:57 am quote
the only thing with the Malossi and Polini vario is that you have to change the roller/weights every 6000 miles/10.000km

and on a other forum but can't find the post anymore, some one posted that even Dr- pulleys wear down faster due to a different glidepath on a malossi

and the prices in the Netherlands aren't that much different

JC 169.- euro
multi-var 189.- euro
Polini 175.- euro
Addicted
'10 Aprilia Mana GT
Joined: 16 Aug 2010
Posts: 720
Location: Central New Jersey
Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:03 pm quote
Harbor Freight 1/2 in. torque wrench 14.99
Bump
Just received a HF flyer that has the 1/2 inch torque wrench for $14.99 w/coupon that is usually available at front door (reg 34.99). Range from 20-150 ft lbs, should cover most jobs on the MP3.
Hard price to beat!

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-half-inch-drive-click-stop-torque-wrench-239.html
Banned
MP3 500
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 4530
Location: Ashburn, Va
Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:27 pm quote
Re: Harbor Freight 1/2 in. torque wrench 14.99
raybjur wrote:
Bump
Just received a HF flyer that has the 1/2 inch torque wrench for $14.99 w/coupon that is usually available at front door (reg 34.99). Range from 20-150 ft lbs, should cover most jobs on the MP3.
Hard price to beat!

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-half-inch-drive-click-stop-torque-wrench-239.html
I wouldn't use a 12.99 torque wrench on anything but my car or truck lug nuts. It's not going to be very accurate.
Addicted
'10 Aprilia Mana GT
Joined: 16 Aug 2010
Posts: 720
Location: Central New Jersey
Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:23 pm quote
Realizing that 99+% of the HF stuff is from China, I can't complain about the items I've purchased there. I don't expect the stuff to be commercial grade but I've yet to have any issues with the HD tools for 'occasional use'. I bought the 1/2 in torque and will be testing it against an over-priced Craftsman wrench before I crank anything on my scoot.

I still think this is a better choice over torque rods or an impact wrench.
Banned
MP3 500
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 4530
Location: Ashburn, Va
Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:50 pm quote
raybjur wrote:
Realizing that 99+% of the HF stuff is from China, I can't complain about the items I've purchased there. I don't expect the stuff to be commercial grade but I've yet to have any issues with the HD tools for 'occasional use'. I bought the 1/2 in torque and will be testing it against an over-priced Craftsman wrench before I crank anything on my scoot.
Craftsman Torque wrenches aren't expensive at all at $79. Try a Snap On at about $250-$500

You get what you pay for and torque wrenches are not a place to scrimp on a cheap one. It's not how it works now, but in a year or two when the internals mess up and you don't know it and you break a bolt off or under torque a bolt and it falls off.
Might as well use an impact as apposed to a $29 torque wrench.

Harbor Freight is fine for some stuff, but NOT precision tools, just like I would not buy a Harbor Freight Micrometer.
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 15 Dec 2011
Posts: 129
Location: Gilroy, California
Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:03 am quote
Resurrection

I'm doing this for 2 reasons really,
1: There seems to be many newcomers who will want to see this
2: I'm unclear on something

So my problem is understanding just what is involved in the reseating of
the belt. I know I saw a pic from OAD having the clutch off and pressing the
belt into the slot, can't find it currently though. Is this needed to reseat
the belt everytime it's changed? Not the removal of the clutch so much as
the forcing of the belt into the channel of the clutch. I was under the, obviously, mistaken impression that it would just pop out w/ the removal of the variator, pop into the clutch, and just retighten the variator w/ the new belt in place. Now it has become clear it's not so simple. Please advise.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 21344
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:07 am quote
Co0lMiNt wrote:
Resurrection

I'm doing this for 2 reasons really,
1: There seems to be many newcomers who will want to see this
2: I'm unclear on something

So my problem is understanding just what is involved in the reseating of
the belt. I know I saw a pic from OAD having the clutch off and pressing the
belt into the slot, can't find it currently though. Is this needed to reseat
the belt everytime it's changed? Not the removal of the clutch so much as
the forcing of the belt into the channel of the clutch. I was under the, obviously, mistaken impression that it would just pop out w/ the removal of the variator, pop into the clutch, and just retighten the variator w/ the new belt in place. Now it has become clear it's not so simple. Please advise.
yes you need to get the belt into the clutch pulleys everytime you put the vari back together.
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 15 Dec 2011
Posts: 129
Location: Gilroy, California
Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:03 am quote
And those clutch pulleys have to relatively forced apart? From what I've
read it seems like a 2 person job to make it easier on the reinsertion of
the belt into that area. One to pinch the clutch and the other could then
insert the belt. Or am I over thinking this?
I wish I had somebody in my area to help w/ this. Gonna try to watch
the Piaggio mechanic otherwise.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37492
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:06 am quote
You get the belt in by twisting the clutch anti-clockwise.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 21344
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:08 am quote
jimc wrote:
You get the belt in by twisting the clutch anti-clockwise.
or you can use a block of wood and lay it on the belt and tapp with a hammer to get it to go down in the halves. be sure to use some wood or something on the floor as to not damage the pulley halves.
Ossessionato
Red MP3 500 RUBY DRAGON
Joined: 29 Nov 2008
Posts: 2626
Location: Northern CA
Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:06 pm quote
Co0lMiNt wrote:
Resurrection

I'm doing this for 2 reasons really,
1: There seems to be many newcomers who will want to see this
2: I'm unclear on something

So my problem is understanding just what is involved in the reseating of
the belt. I know I saw a pic from OAD having the clutch off and pressing the
belt into the slot, can't find it currently though. Is this needed to reseat
the belt everytime it's changed? Not the removal of the clutch so much as
the forcing of the belt into the channel of the clutch. I was under the, obviously, mistaken impression that it would just pop out w/ the removal of the variator, pop into the clutch, and just retighten the variator w/ the new belt in place. Now it has become clear it's not so simple. Please advise.
Come on over. We'll do it in 35 min. if we don't need to wring out your oil filter.
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 15 Dec 2011
Posts: 129
Location: Gilroy, California
Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:18 pm quote
PM sent
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 15 Dec 2011
Posts: 129
Location: Gilroy, California
Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:03 am quote
Co0lMiNt wrote:
PM sent
mjm is way farther away than I expected. Doable if I want to go
highway for about 100+ miles I'm not quite ready for that, this
being my first cycle and all. Great guy to keep the offer open too. Any other members a bit closer to San Jose?
Sorry if it sounds like I'm fishin'.
Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 (sold) MP3 500 (current)
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 21446
Location: Palatka, Florida
Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:13 am quote
Co0lMiNt wrote:
Resurrection

I'm doing this for 2 reasons really,
1: There seems to be many newcomers who will want to see this
2: I'm unclear on something

I have put links to this article in the wiki here MP3 500 and here MP3 400 so it will always be handy.
Enthusiast
MP3 400, MP3 500
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Atlanta
Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:53 am quote
Re: Harbor Freight 1/2 in. torque wrench 14.99
raybjur wrote:
Bump
Just received a HF flyer that has the 1/2 inch torque wrench for $14.99 w/coupon that is usually available at front door (reg 34.99). Range from 20-150 ft lbs, should cover most jobs on the MP3.
Hard price to beat!

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-half-inch-drive-click-stop-torque-wrench-239.html
This weekend down to $9.99. Priced the same as the similar sized breaker bar. Probably about as accurate as the breaker bar at measuring torque.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37492
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:27 pm quote
Amazingly, the HF ones are pretty accurate. I reckon that with occasional use and *always* putting them away correctly they should last for years. Even if they do peg out, they'd still do duty as breaker bars thereafter!

Do remember not to confuse the kg-m (roughly Nm/10) with the lb-ft scales...
Cross Egypt Challenge - A 2400km ride throughout Egypt   Vespa Wasp Pin Badges   AF1 Racing Vespa Austin
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