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@chad avatar
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Olivia Newton-John
p200, vbb, gt200, px150, vnb
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Olivia Newton-John
@chad avatar
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UTC quote
i was riding through town today, and a lady that looked to be 90 or so (driving a crown victoria) just decided she wanted to be in my lane. no turn signal, head check, nothing. she just drove into my lane. luckily i had one of those turning lanes between me and the oncoming traffic.

i'm starting to think that at a certain age, you need to just surrender your driving license.
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UTC quote
Yeah...I can second that. My great-grandmother drove until she was 94. She's 101 now. She probably would have kept driving, but her car caught on fire in her driveway, so she was basically forced to stop. I now live in the same neighborhood as she does, and all of the neighbors talk about running in fear when they'd hear her Buick coming down the road. I don't think you can set an age, though...rather, after a certain point in life (75, 85, I don't know), you should have to get a writing endorsement from your physician saying you're competent enough to drive. You'd just take it along with your other stuff when you renewed registration of your vehicle. It wouldn't be that hard, and the streets would definitely be safer.
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UTC quote
Disagree. I don't think there should be an arbitrary age. I think there should be mandatory skills testing at all ages.
OP
@chad avatar
UTC

Olivia Newton-John
p200, vbb, gt200, px150, vnb
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Olivia Newton-John
@chad avatar
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UTC quote
skills testing i agree with. not a doctor's slip/recommendation though. i have 5 doctor's in the family, and i can attest to the fact that they sometimes just 'sign things.'
@bwyn avatar
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UTC quote
I agree with the skills testing. I'm 75 and just recently got my endorsement after taking the MSF-ERC. Some people age much faster than others and then there's me. Laughing emoticon
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UTC quote
chad wrote:
skills testing i agree with. not a doctor's slip/recommendation though. i have 5 doctor's in the family, and i can attest to the fact that they sometimes just 'sign things.'
There are three doctors in my family, and none of them will admit to just signing things, but I'm sure they do. Usually a nurse will come up with a stack of papers and say, "Sign these." I can see them missing it if that were the case. What I had in mind was a sort of questionaire the doctor was required to administer. The test would cover motor skills, reaction time, judgement capacity, etc.

Sure, mandatory skills testing would be nice, but I doubt it will ever happen. You'd have to inrease the infrastruture of each state's DMV, and I doubt state legislators would be too happy about that. State funding is much tighter than federal funding, and I doubt it would be a federal program.

If it's a physician's permission, the infrastructure is already in place, most old people go to the doctor all the time, and the state's costs would be minimal compared to a whole new testing sector for the DMV.

So while regular skills testing would be nice, I don't think it's feasible at all.
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UTC quote
So how many doctors are skilled enough to adminster coordination and attention span and paying attentiion to what they're doing tests in an over worked office and apply it to the driving experience?
@alice avatar
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
I'm with Bronwyn on this one. One of these days we are all going to be faced with the possibility of having to surrender our license. I hope I have the sense to do it voluntarily. If not, I'm sure one of my sisters will steal it from my purse and cut it up.

I'm just as likely to get run off the road by a ding-dong on a cell phone or a tail-gating teenager (sorry, teenagers, I know it's not just you), as I am by an elderly person. Truth is, there are tons of people on the road on any given day who shouldn't be there and most of us have been one of those people at least once. It's scary out there, that's all there is to it. At this point, I just don't see any solution to the problem. I do know that since I started riding a motorcylce, and now a scooter, I am a much more careful driver, and am especially cautious around those on two wheels.

Cheers!
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UTC quote
Here in California my Father in law has to take a driving test every year ( he's 91 ). To me this makes a ton of sense. It's clear after 10 minutes whether he's fit to drive.
Asking a doctor to infer driving ability from a set of tests is a too obtuse. Why not take a few minutes of a professional driving tester's tiime? Besides collecting revenue, the DMV is there to regulate safety on the road by screening drivers.
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UTC quote
pointpergame wrote:
Asking a doctor to infer driving ability from a set of tests is a too obtuse. Why not take a few minutes of a professional driving tester's tiime? Besides collecting revenue, the DMV is there to regulate safety on the road by screening drivers.
Great idea.

Having doctors approve someone for driving: once their liability insurance companies get wind of that concept, more and more will retire or quit. Medical liability insurance is outrageous. Having the $20/hour person at the DMV do it is much more efficient (yes DMV and efficient in one sentence.)

The DMV person is also much less likely to damage the dignity of the driver too, as compared to the doctor who should have an open relationship with the patient and might be viewed as the person who took away their freedom to visit the farmers market.

Plus it will give Grams and Gramps more proof that the DMV is a screwed up mess, and hates them, and things haven't been right since Roosevelt was in office, and kids stayed off the lawn.
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UTC quote
I live in Florida.......today I was trying to pick up lunch for me and my boss and I was stuck behind a lady that was going about 10mph, then as luck would have it, she turned into the same place I was going, took the only nearby parking spot and made me have to park quite a ways away. I still got into the diner before she managed to get her car door open. Bleh. Razz emoticon

I think that after a certain age, you should have to get tested every couple years or so. I used to live in a condo complex and there was a crazy lady in the next building. By crazy, I mean she spent *hours* walking in a circle around her car, making sure all her windows were up, she had actual conversations with the birds, and for no reason at all, she'd go sit in her car with the windows down (her parking spot was right in front of my window) and blast showtunes from her cd player at 5am on a Saturday. The scary thing is that she actually got in that car and drove away sometimes. Once I was a few blocks from home and I saw her just chilling in a left turn lane in an area of the road where there was no place to go left. She was parked. This was a major, busy road. God knows how long she stayed there.

I think they finally carted her off to an old folks home, but I thought for sure she was going to kill someone.
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UTC quote
I know some folks in their 80's that drive better than people in their 20, 30 40's +.

But I completely know what you mean. Just looking at some of these ladies in their 90's driving their boats...gives me shivers.

And how come they never drive little cars, like Mini's or Honda Fit's? It's always big cars.
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UTC quote
Scott St. Pierre wrote:
And how come they never drive little cars, like Mini's or Honda Fit's? It's always big cars.
Because that's what her husband left her GRHS, it was the best car ever, he used to get a new Buick/Ford/Olds every two years since the war. Plus you can get two weeks worth of polyester clothes and velcro shoes across the backseat on one of those hanger bars that hooks on to the grab handles.

My mother-in-law drives an '06 Jag XJR with 400HP. She's 77. I occasionally go over and blow the carbon out of the engine.
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UTC

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UTC quote
Disagreed.
People should be tested and decisions made on an individual basis.

Although I was nearly side-swiped yesterday by an elderly woman wearing those BIG black cataract eyeglassess, I have been nearly killed and definately more offended by the younger male crowd of drivers. Razz emoticon
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UTC quote
My dad (age 63) has to have his eyes checked at the DMV every year. He has macular degeneration in one eye.
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UTC quote
Re: thoughts on a mandatory 'take your license away' age
chad wrote:
i'm starting to think that at a certain age, you need to just surrender your driving license.
Except that my MIL needed to stop driving when she was in her late 50's -- she'd drive in 2 lanes, no turn signal, ignore lights and signs in her neighborhood. She did stop when she turned 60, but it was a scary.

So what's this magicaL age?

Lauri
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UTC quote
I'm with the mandatory testing crowd. I certainly feel that if you can perform the skills safely, you can operate the vehicle. If not, time to take the bus......
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
I agree with skills based testing for all drivers every 2-3 years or after major at fault accidents.
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Re: thoughts on a mandatory 'take your license away' age
[quote="Lauri"]
chad wrote:
So what's this magicaL age?

I think people add about 20 years to their own age and all those people seem old.
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UTC quote
I work in an ophthalmology clinic, and it's really scary seeing several people on a daily basis with poor enough eye sight to be considered legally blind that are still driving. DMV will renew someone's license for 8 years - An elderly person's eyesight can change dramatically in a short period of time! Eyesight alone should keep many people (and not just the elderly) off the roads.

Monica
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This is an issue that I have to deal with a lot, mainly from the perspective of whether or not an individual's mental functioning has changed sufficiently to render them unsafe to drive. For the individual affected it is no minor decision, and usually means a loss of independence and a change in lifestyle for them and their family. The matter is worsened when there is insufficient public transit. We don't always realize just how much we depend upon driving until we can't do it for a while.

We do testing of thier attention, speed of processing, judgment and other mental functions. In the event that someone fails, I then recommend them to a medical driving evaluation. That is an actual road test, and is more demanding than the Ministry of Transportation's license test. Everyone can have a bad day, and I am reluctant to recommend that someone have their driver's license recalled just on the basis of an office assessment. The road test takes them on the city streets, in shopping malls, and on the highway, with and without added distraction, to see how they actually manage behind the wheel. The cost is about $500, which the patient has to pay. It is a lot, but I feel that it, along with the office assessment, provides the clearest indication of whether or not someone is safe when behind the wheel. If they cannot, or will not, agree to the road test, then I make my recommendation based solely on the office findings. The final decision is made by their treating physician - and sometimes they choose to ignore my recommendation.

It is rare to have the family disagree with me when I recommend someone no longer drive. Usually, they are looking for confirmation for what they already suspect or know. Most patients are upset when I share my recommendation, but some understand better once you explain the liability risk and physical risk to themselves, family members who may be riding with them, and others on the road. Some never understand, or agree, and I just have to accept that while making the recommendation.

I would like to see everyone (even me) have regular driving assessments. Politically, it is a very hot potato! In Ontario, persons over the age of 80 are no longer automatically required to pass a road test to renew a driver's licence. Instead, a vision and knowledge test must be taken and the driver must participate in a 90-minute group education session which is offered by the Ministry of Transportation.
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UTC quote
I don't agree with any magical age to take away a person's driver's license. My grandfather drives as well as ever, and he's in his late 80s.

But I think there should be an age where the license has to be renewed more frequently, and a driving test is required. If everyone had to do that, the dmv offices would be overloaded to a scary degree. People would have to bring sleeping bags and camp out in order to get in the door.

(I do agree completely with requiring a driving test after any semi-major at-fault accident.)
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
I Disagree. From 18 (16 in the us) to 65 : test every ten years. From 65-...: every 5 years.
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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UTC quote
I'm with most of you. Even every 10 years would weed some people out, or make them read their rule books and manual once per decade.

Harnadem, That's a tough position to be in but I'm glad your country/province does that. I don't know that that type of program exists here.

Too bad you can't test for "Prolonged A$$ Holism" (PAH) to get rid of some of the really pain in the... drivers.
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UTC

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@snofrk avatar
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UTC quote
I agree testing should happen ever few years after the age of 70. On that note any person who gets has two tickets should be retested. MOM is 71 and she would pass no problem. It would be really hard if she couldn't drive but I rather her pissed off she has to be on the buss and alive.

At three thickets (Not Points) They should have lose their Lic for three months and go through a full Driver training class.

Older people are sometimes the best driver....

This is a great example how bad the system is. A friend was driving down to LA and one of his buddies took the wheel and was pulled over for doing 117 MPH. His fine was about $2500 and after traffic school it was 1 point. If he wrecked it would have killed 4 people in the car for sure.

In this case for speeds like this everyone in the car should have had a ticket. Now that would slow people down.

But that's radical for most....
@michael_h avatar
UTC

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UTC quote
SNOFRK wrote:
This is a great example how bad the system is. A friend was driving down to LA and one of his buddies took the wheel and was pulled over for doing 117 MPH. His fine was about $2500 and after traffic school it was 1 point. If he wrecked it would have killed 4 people in the car for sure.

In this case for speeds like this everyone in the car should have had a ticket. Now that would slow people down.

But that's radical for most....
Some police jurisdictions in Ontario have begun seizing (and wrecking) cars used for street races.
@judy avatar
UTC

World Traveler
2007 LX150 Daring Plum Leonardo Da Vespa
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@judy avatar
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UTC quote
I agree with the yearly testing and i mean get in the car and show me how you drive. The age at you start this is a little tricky. At 75 do it maybe every couple of years then at 80 do it yearly. I have friends who are 85 and they act like 60 but these are the exception. What The? emoticon WHY do most little old people drive tanks!! They can't see over the friggin dash. I think makin them drive a smaller car who help even more than the mandatory testing. Get them a mini cooper.
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UTC

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UTC quote
Shame they aren't on a scooter...Then at least if they keep falling over...
But seriously...I really think that it's a case by case thing and you really
can't be the judge on when to make the cut off point.

Some people are better at maintaining their bodies than others...
Also there are just way too many variables involved here.

Dave
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UTC

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2006 GTS250ie
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Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
 
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@capo avatar
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Posts: 84
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UTC quote
Its the age old debate.....many young people are too stupid and inexperienced to drive even though their reaction times are remarkable, while their elders have many years of great experience to draw on, but they can't make their bodies or minds work fast enough to get out of trouble.

There will always be a major problem getting any meaningful age related driving legislation passed in the US while we baby boomers, who vote in great numbers and support the AARP, are around. All this stuff is just so much esoteric fluff until it affects you or someone you love. Boomers have never been known to be very unselfish, so I guess its up to you younger warriors to take up the cause. Laughing emoticon Laughing emoticon

They probably had the same discussion about chariot driving in ancient Rome! Laughing emoticon
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