SECOND RADIATOR FAN ON GTS
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Banned
GTS 250ie YELLOW N WHITE,Giallo Lime
Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 1374
Location: Beautiful Orange County CA
Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:00 pm quote
I went to Massimo's Vespa shop in Coast
Mesa, (949-689-6546) and had the second
radiator fan installed. Photos below, I couldn't
do the project myself so I left it to Massimo
take care of it. Took three hours but well
worth the feeling of not having just one fan
keeping my GTS cool while riding in Riverside
during the HOT months. When ever I go visit
my Sister the singal fan seams to be running
an aweful lot, now it won't be on it's own.
I purchased the second fan on this site a few
months ago, it cost $65 from someone who
totalled their GTS.
Banned
GTS 250ie YELLOW N WHITE,Giallo Lime
Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 1374
Location: Beautiful Orange County CA
Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:37 pm quote
Photos of said modification
I should be able to up load the project photos now.









Last edited by YardSale on Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:24 am; edited 2 times in total
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'00 Helix TARDIS
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 7249
Location: the Vortex
Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:36 pm quote
That sounds like a good idea, especially in areas where it does get really hot, like back in CA where you're at. My fan has only come on a handful of times, but I bet if I lived back in CA or TX, it would be on constantly during the summer.

Does it put any extra strain on the electrical system? Did anything else really need to be modified to get it to work correctly? Have you ridden it enough since the mod to really notice a difference? The GTV does not have a visible engine temperature guage like the GTS, only a light telling you if it's already gotten too hot. So I wouldn't have anything to make a comparison by.
Molto Verboso
LX150 Darling Plum; GTS 250 Dragon Red; Honda Big Ruckus Demented Bastard
Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 1387
Location: Sacramento, Ca.
Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:03 pm quote
Not at all a bad idea there Yardsale... !!! I think this bears some looking into.. It does look like there is room for it, just... how much does it clear the tool case holder part?? Did you wire it into the other fan so if that one comes on the 2nd one comes on to?? Or were you thinking of wiring it to a switch so you could manually turn it on??
Banned
GTS 250ie YELLOW N WHITE,Giallo Lime
Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 1374
Location: Beautiful Orange County CA
Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:22 pm quote
Copper Dolphin wrote:
Not at all a bad idea there Yardsale... !!! I think this bears some looking into.. It does look like there is room for it, just... how much does it clear the tool case holder part?? Did you wire it into the other fan so if that one comes on the 2nd one comes on to?? Or were you thinking of wiring it to a switch so you could manually turn it on??
After Massimo put it together he took out
this testing device he purchased from
PIAGGIO and tested every thing and both
fans working together cause no undue force
on the electrical system. I just had it done
today and the weather, said HEAT is coming
back the next couple of days. so I'll be riding
on out to Riverside to visit Anna. Thats where
the fan usually kicks in at. It doesn't even
come close to the tool box, it does get tight
and thats why I had a professional do it for me.
Hooked
Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 312

Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:31 pm quote
If there are current draw issues, you might find a different fan with a lower draw. Waiting in traffic, perhaps even a 120mm 12vdc computer fan might help, and would take about 5 watts. You should be able to find a fan in that size for almost any flow or current draw.
Hooked
05 gt 200
Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 170

Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:00 am quote
great idea! i'm unfamiliar with the innerworkings of gt's. there are 2 radiators but only one fan in the vespa correct? so you just bought an extra fan, wired it to the existing fan, and placed it on the left-side radiator?
Ossessionato
GTS, LX, VSD, VSX, VNX, LD 125, Chucky, LI125
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 4179
Location: San Jose CA
Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:40 am quote
Hope your mech put a relay in.

The wire feeding that circut is 18ga, at best 16ga., and that will only SAFELY carry 5 amps. The fan is not relayed stock so the power literally flows thru the switch at the motor then up to the front.

Doubling up the fans is doubling up the current draw.

The Digitek Piaggio uses will not tell you if the current draw is safe, only if the overall voltage drops while the fans are running. An amp meter would need to be used to check the current flowing thru the specific circuit when the fans are running.

A relay would solve all this.

The cooling system on these bikes is bulletproof for the most part already.

Carry some extra 15 amp fuses....keep an eye on the temp gauge when things get toasty.

IMHO

R

Banned
GTS 250ie YELLOW N WHITE,Giallo Lime
Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 1374
Location: Beautiful Orange County CA
Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:37 am quote
glasseye wrote:
Hope your mech put a relay in.

The wire feeding that circut is 18ga, at best 16ga., and that will only SAFELY carry 5 amps. The fan is not relayed stock so the power literally flows thru the switch at the motor then up to the front.

Doubling up the fans is doubling up the current draw.

The Digitek Piaggio uses will not tell you if the current draw is safe, only if the overall voltage drops while the fans are running. An amp meter would need to be used to check the current flowing thru the specific circuit when the fans are running.

A relay would solve all this.

The cooling system on these bikes is bulletproof for the most part already.

Carry some extra 15 amp fuses....keep an eye on the temp gauge when things get toasty.

IMHO

R

Sounds like good advice, will let him know
and later I'll let you know whats been done.
Banned
GTS 250ie YELLOW N WHITE,Giallo Lime
Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 1374
Location: Beautiful Orange County CA
Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:39 am quote
heyitzsushiboi wrote:
great idea! i'm unfamiliar with the innerworkings of gt's. there are 2 radiators but only one fan in the vespa correct? so you just bought an extra fan, wired it to the existing fan, and placed it on the left-side radiator?
The right side radiator, but yes and now I
need to see if I should have a relay put onto it.
Molto Verboso
Assorted ET4 125 parts
Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 1263
Location: Glasgow
Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:37 am quote
F**k me! How big is the glovebox on a GTS?

Oh aye, nice work on the mod too!
El Macho
KTM Super Duke 1290, Vespa GTS 300
Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 9021
Location: Belfast Metropolitan Area
Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:13 pm quote
My only question is "Why?"

Does the GTS need the extra cooling? It was designed and built in Pontadera, where the temperatures hit 40degC regularly.

Amazed that there was room for a second fan. Massimo must be pleased. (Not that the fan fitted, but at the extra dosh for all that labour...)
Ossessionato
2010 PIAGGIO BV 500ie Tourer
Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 4539
Location: Lakeshore, ON, CANADA
Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:23 pm quote
Does the auxiliary (second) fan cut in at the same time as the main fan??

If so, what is the advantage, other than creating a more rapid heat/cool cycle.
Better to have the auxiliary fan cut in at a temperature that the main fan was not able to reduce.
That way the engine would be at a more stable operating temperature.
That is when they work most efficiently.
Banned
GTS 250ie YELLOW N WHITE,Giallo Lime
Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 1374
Location: Beautiful Orange County CA
Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:48 pm quote
EN82pg wrote:
Does the auxiliary (second) fan cut in at the same time as the main fan??

If so, what is the advantage, other than creating a more rapid heat/cool cycle.
Better to have the auxiliary fan cut in at a temperature that the main fan was not able to reduce.
That way the engine would be at a more stable operating temperature.
That is when they work most efficiently.
My fear is that when I ride out in Riverside or Temecula
the fan seams to be running constantly. Two radiators
and just one cooling fan seams odd to me, will let you
know the results of the modification.
Foiled
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Posts: 1240
Location: Naples
Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:40 pm quote
Thumbs up to the Yardsale!
Banned
GTS 250ie YELLOW N WHITE,Giallo Lime
Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 1374
Location: Beautiful Orange County CA
Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:16 pm quote
Second cooling fan
I took my GTS into Massimo's shop and he told
me that PIAGGIO of California said there wasn't
anything wrong with tying in a second cooling
fan in paralelle with the original fan. It's fine
and nothing to worry about.
Molto Verboso
2007 GT200 1979 P200E 1980 P200E 2011 Triumph America
Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 1260
Location: Sacramento
Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:29 pm quote
On my way to Riverside today and......
Banned
GTS 2007
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 67
Location: Sunset Beach,CA
Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:54 pm quote
Re: Second cooling fan
YardSale wrote:
I took my GTS into Massimo's shop and he told
me that PIAGGIO of California said there wasn't
anything wrong with tying in a second cooling
fan in paralelle with the original fan. It's fine
and nothing to worry about.
My fan seams to be on alot when ever I go for long rides, I check the level of cooling fluid and all seams fine,this idea you have yardsale sounds good. I will go see this Massimo mechanic and see if I can have it done. I didn't know there was only one cooling fan, although I was told there were two radiators, just figured two cooling fans.
Enthusiast
ET4 150 - LT 150
Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 52
Location: jakarta, indonesia
Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:45 pm quote
DougL wrote:
My only question is "Why?"

Does the GTS need the extra cooling? It was designed and built in Pontadera, where the temperatures hit 40degC regularly.

Amazed that there was room for a second fan. Massimo must be pleased. (Not that the fan fitted, but at the extra dosh for all that labour...)
i live in jakarta and yes, during this month, i see thru on my x9 information screen, its 41degC.. sooo i was afraid to take out my gtv.. lots of my firend got their gts/v over heat..

but this mod seems very helpful.
Ossessionato
GTS, LX, VSD, VSX, VNX, LD 125, Chucky, LI125
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 4179
Location: San Jose CA
Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:23 pm quote
**as a public service**

In My Humble Opinion: This is a solution in search of a problem.

The fan is supposed to come on then shut off....if it stays on that could be an indication of a problem. Does your fan run all the time? Not if your bike is functioning properly.

At the very least seek to understand wire size & current carrying capacity needed to run two fans at once. An amp meter is your friend.

I have never seen a healthy water cooled Vespa overheat, not even close.

R

Ossessionato
'07 GTS-250ie "Silver"
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 2021
Location: the Queen City of the West, aka Porkopolis
Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:43 pm quote
glasseye wrote:
**as a public service**

In My Humble Opinion: This is a solution in search of a problem.

The fan is supposed to come on then shut off....if it stays on that could be an indication of a problem. Does your fan run all the time? Not if your bike is functioning properly.

At the very least seek to understand wire size & current carrying capacity needed to run two fans at once. An amp meter is your friend.

I have never seen a healthy water cooled Vespa overheat, not even close.

R

+1. This mod would overload the fan/headlight electrical circuit, for a dubious benefit at best.
This idea has come up before: gts radiator air flow.
I stand by what I said then:
Cincinnati John wrote:
…The fan draws 5A; two fans would draw 10A of course. The fan relay contacts will handle 30A, so it's ok there. Problem is, the relay is fed with 1.0 sq. mm wire which is only good to 10A; two fans would load the wire to capacity which is never good. Also, the fan and headlight are both on the same 15A fuse. The (60W highbeam) headlight draws 5A. So when the fans come on, the fuse would blow. To make it work, the fan relay would have to be fed by a separate, dedicated circuit, with heavier wire…
For reference, here's the GTS electrical diagram.
How was the wiring done? This question needs to be answered.
Banned
GTS 250ie - SHINY YELLOW
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 3101
Location: Sunny Southern California
Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:43 am quote
Two fans
Cincinnati John wrote:
glasseye wrote:
**as a public service**

In My Humble Opinion: This is a solution in search of a problem.

The fan is supposed to come on then shut off....if it stays on that could be an indication of a problem. Does your fan run all the time? Not if your bike is functioning properly.

At the very least seek to understand wire size & current carrying capacity needed to run two fans at once. An amp meter is your friend.

I have never seen a healthy water cooled Vespa overheat, not even close.

R

+1. This mod would overload the fan/headlight electrical circuit, for a dubious benefit at best.
This idea has come up before: gts radiator air flow.
I stand by what I said then:
Cincinnati John wrote:
…The fan draws 5A; two fans would draw 10A of course. The fan relay contacts will handle 30A, so it's ok there. Problem is, the relay is fed with 1.0 sq. mm wire which is only good to 10A; two fans would load the wire to capacity which is never good. Also, the fan and headlight are both on the same 15A fuse. The (60W highbeam) headlight draws 5A. So when the fans come on, the fuse would blow. To make it work, the fan relay would have to be fed by a separate, dedicated circuit, with heavier wire…
For reference, here's the GTS electrical diagram.
How was the wiring done? This question needs to be answered.
As I understand it, the GT200 has two fans.
Ossessionato
2010 PIAGGIO BV 500ie Tourer
Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 4539
Location: Lakeshore, ON, CANADA
Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:12 am quote
Re: Two fans
erich51 wrote:
Cincinnati John wrote:
glasseye wrote:
**as a public service**

In My Humble Opinion: This is a solution in search of a problem.

The fan is supposed to come on then shut off....if it stays on that could be an indication of a problem. Does your fan run all the time? Not if your bike is functioning properly.

At the very least seek to understand wire size & current carrying capacity needed to run two fans at once. An amp meter is your friend.

I have never seen a healthy water cooled Vespa overheat, not even close.

R

+1. This mod would overload the fan/headlight electrical circuit, for a dubious benefit at best.
This idea has come up before: gts radiator air flow.
I stand by what I said then:
Cincinnati John wrote:
…The fan draws 5A; two fans would draw 10A of course. The fan relay contacts will handle 30A, so it's ok there. Problem is, the relay is fed with 1.0 sq. mm wire which is only good to 10A; two fans would load the wire to capacity which is never good. Also, the fan and headlight are both on the same 15A fuse. The (60W highbeam) headlight draws 5A. So when the fans come on, the fuse would blow. To make it work, the fan relay would have to be fed by a separate, dedicated circuit, with heavier wire…
For reference, here's the GTS electrical diagram.
How was the wiring done? This question needs to be answered.
As I understand it, the GT200 has two fans.
No, the GT200 only has one fan. At least, mine has only one. According to Haynes and Piaggio, this is the case. Do you have other info that we may not be privy to??
I know there are some "bastard" versions out there, but not with two fans as originally equipped.
Member
GT200
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 20
Location: Ontario,Canada
Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:45 am quote
An option to achieve a cooler running scoot would be, to simply alter the coolant ratio or run a different coolant.I am not sure I really understand the logic in adding a second fan.Engine Ice is what I use in my Honda motorcycle.
Sir Frets-A-Lot
Vespa GT250ie/L, Honda Ruckus 50, Honda NT700V, Honda CB125
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 11198
Location: Bee eff eee.
Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:37 pm quote
The GT200 has only one. The housings both have mounts but only one fan.
Banned
GTS 250ie - SHINY YELLOW
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 3101
Location: Sunny Southern California
Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:26 pm quote
Re: Two fans
EN82pg wrote:
erich51 wrote:
Cincinnati John wrote:
glasseye wrote:
**as a public service**

In My Humble Opinion: This is a solution in search of a problem.

The fan is supposed to come on then shut off....if it stays on that could be an indication of a problem. Does your fan run all the time? Not if your bike is functioning properly.

At the very least seek to understand wire size & current carrying capacity needed to run two fans at once. An amp meter is your friend.

I have never seen a healthy water cooled Vespa overheat, not even close.

R

+1. This mod would overload the fan/headlight electrical circuit, for a dubious benefit at best.
This idea has come up before: gts radiator air flow.
I stand by what I said then:
Cincinnati John wrote:
…The fan draws 5A; two fans would draw 10A of course. The fan relay contacts will handle 30A, so it's ok there. Problem is, the relay is fed with 1.0 sq. mm wire which is only good to 10A; two fans would load the wire to capacity which is never good. Also, the fan and headlight are both on the same 15A fuse. The (60W highbeam) headlight draws 5A. So when the fans come on, the fuse would blow. To make it work, the fan relay would have to be fed by a separate, dedicated circuit, with heavier wire…
For reference, here's the GTS electrical diagram.
How was the wiring done? This question needs to be answered.
As I understand it, the GT200 has two fans.
No, the GT200 only has one fan. At least, mine has only one. According to Haynes and Piaggio, this is the case. Do you have other info that we may not be privy to??
I know there are some "bastard" versions out there, but not with two fans as originally equipped.
I met someone recently that told me he had two fans on his GT200, So I figured thet all had two fans, my bad.
Banned
GTS 250ie - SHINY YELLOW
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 3101
Location: Sunny Southern California
Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:30 pm quote
tuckandroll wrote:
An option to achieve a cooler running scoot would be, to simply alter the coolant ratio or run a different coolant.I am not sure I really understand the logic in adding a second fan.Engine Ice is what I use in my Honda motorcycle.
How well has this engine ice worked out for you? I have never heard of it.
Member
GT200
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 20
Location: Ontario,Canada
Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:50 pm quote
It has drastically improved the running temp.My Honda fan would run constantly in any stop and go traffic on a marginally warm day here in Ontario.With the Ice the fan actually shuts off in traffic.My Vespa runs cool as is,so no need for it in my climate.Engine Ice is only good to minus 10 celcius,so you need to have indoor storage for winter.
Banned
Vespa GTS 300 Super & Vespa P125X
Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 4134
Location: St. Petersburg Florida
Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:47 am quote
That is definitely a project I would do. Very easy and serves a purpose. I may do this mod over the winter.
Banned
GTS 250ie - SHINY YELLOW
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 3101
Location: Sunny Southern California
Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:35 am quote
bump
bump
Ossessionato
'07 GTS-250ie "Silver"
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 2021
Location: the Queen City of the West, aka Porkopolis
Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:36 pm quote
Re: bump
erich51 wrote:
bump
So Eric, how is this mod working out for you? Did your fans ever kick in before the weather cooled off?
Banned
GTS 250ie - SHINY YELLOW
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 3101
Location: Sunny Southern California
Mon Dec 21, 2009 9:06 pm quote
Re: bump
Cincinnati John wrote:
erich51 wrote:
bump
So Eric, how is this mod working out for you? Did your fans ever kick in before the weather cooled off?
Just yesturday it kicked on while sitting at a red light.
Ossessionato
'07 GTS-250ie "Silver"
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 2021
Location: the Queen City of the West, aka Porkopolis
Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:13 am quote
Looking forward to hearing how it does this coming summer…
Banned
GTS 250ie - SHINY YELLOW
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 3101
Location: Sunny Southern California
Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:25 pm quote
double the pleasure
Cincinnati John wrote:
Looking forward to hearing how it does this coming summer…
so am I, will keep you posted.
Banned
GTS 250ie - SHINY YELLOW
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 3101
Location: Sunny Southern California
Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:44 am quote
New Years Eve 2009
I'm riding out to Riverside to be with Anna and friends, Then on the 1st I have a ride with a group out of Temecula. Will let you know how it goes in my Daily Rider report.
Enthusiast
Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 68
Location: Asia
Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:00 pm quote
my 300 has overheated twice in heavy stop and go traffic. temp gauge went uo to just below the red zone, the fan kicks in, but cant bring the temp down to normal. then the engine sputters and cuts off.

i'm thinking of putting the second fan on to keep the temp down in heavy traffic. any foreseeable problems? i'm guessing maybe the 2nd fan might overburden the battery? any way to prevent that?

thanks, sirs.
Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 300 Super
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Posts: 1262
Location: Puerto Rico / Texas / Barcelona
Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:33 am quote
Great idea !!! Better MOD !!
Ossessionato
2009 Vespa GTS 250, TBA
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 2272
Location: Green Valley, AZ
Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:47 am quote
Now I'm wondering if i should be worried. I run my 2009 GTS 250 in triple-digit weather (it's only 10:45 a.m., and it's already 99°) regularly, and so far I haven't encountered any overheating problems. I suspect that it's hotter here in southern AZ than in Italy, so will I eventually need a second fan?
Ossessionato
Baart-less
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 4499
Location: 56°58'34.49"N x 111°29'38.40"W
Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:55 am quote
PeterC wrote:
Now I'm wondering if i should be worried. I run my 2009 GTS 250 in triple-digit weather (it's only 10:45 a.m., and it's already 99°) regularly, and so far I haven't encountered any overheating problems. I suspect that it's hotter here in southern AZ than in Italy, so will I eventually need a second fan?
As far as I know this was the only person on this board to do this mod... I wouldn't be concerned.


Dave
Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 8119
Location: Atlanta, GA
Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:00 pm quote
HEAVY wrote:
my 300 has overheated twice in heavy stop and go traffic. temp gauge went uo to just below the red zone, the fan kicks in, but cant bring the temp down to normal. then the engine sputters and cuts off.

i'm thinking of putting the second fan on to keep the temp down in heavy traffic. any foreseeable problems? i'm guessing maybe the 2nd fan might overburden the battery? any way to prevent that?

thanks, sirs.
Hi Heavy - read Cincinnati and Glasseye's posts above: the issue lies in the grade of the wiring and the current capacity of the fuse. You'd need to upgrade the wiring to be safe with the added current draw. Have you tried better cooling agents as someone else suggested?
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