Repainting scooter - how much paint?
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Addicted
1980 P200e, 1956 ACMA, 1979 P200e, 1974 Ciao
Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 766
Location: Ithaca, NY
Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:49 pm quote
Sorry if this is FAQ, but searching "paint" gave 106 screens of hits. lol

I'm about to repaint my p200. I'm borrowing a friend's automotive paint gun. I'm assuming I'm going to prime, paint, and clear coat it. How much of each paint should I be buying?

Mike
Member
1980 P200E
Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 43
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:59 pm quote
repainting scooter
I too an getting ready to repaint my p200 and would like to know how much to buy as well.
Ossessionato
Joined: 23 Sep 2008
Posts: 2633

Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:47 pm quote
This guy kicks ass period.

He has a nice little write up on painting your scoot here:

http://scooterhelp.com/tips/paint/paint.equip.html

Be very patient and take your time.

Cheers
Moderator
1962 GS160mk1, 1963 GS160mk2, 1965 SS180, 1974 Rally 200, wife's LI150
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 6949
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:29 am quote
typically a bike needs at least a quart of tint... and you need enough reducer and hardener to make it work. Typically stuff like reducer comes in a giant gallon sized container that you'll have extra when you're done.
Addicted
1980 P200e, 1956 ACMA, 1979 P200e, 1974 Ciao
Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 766
Location: Ithaca, NY
Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:07 am quote
Thanks guys. Yes, I found that link to scooterhelp. That's a great writeup. I found an automotive paint shop in town, and got everything I need (hopefully). Sorry, Eric, I decided not to go with a vintage color. I'm going with a very modern looking "Mystic Purple Mica". lol
Member
most of them
Joined: 21 Apr 2010
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Location: phoenix
Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:43 am quote
amount of paint? well thats going to depend on the scooter and the amount of parts you have to cover! Some colors also need a ground coat to be "true" color due to being very translucent I.E. Yellow. Most colors cover in at least 3 coats to be true, but with colors like red or yellow it could take 5-7 so i find useing a ground coat can help get you there in half the time! use a pink under red or a white under yellow for example. I suggest at least a quart of unreduced color and 2 quarts primer as youll definatly be useing much more of that! buy a gallon of clear coat, its cheaper in the gallon by volume than in a quart. geta clear coat that has a good UV rateing to protect your color from fadeing over time in the sun. youll also need to get the proper reducers and hardeners for all the materials you buy. reducer and hardener speed can very from xtra slow to fat or rapid. youll need to consult a professional at the local paint supply when buying your paint about what the manufacturer offers and the temperature outside at the time you plan to spray, this all matters if you want a nice finished product and the paint not to run or solvent pop! consider an acid etch primer as well for your bare metal spots as paint/primer does not stick to bare metal and youll want a can of guide coat also for wetsanding the primer. then you may want to look at sandpaper, scotchbrite, buffing & polishing copounds, detail spray, etc etc... Theres a lot involved in the painting process and every detail matters if you want to do it correct and not have to do it again. you should expect to have at least $500 in materials if not closer to $700 by the time you finish painting your vespa. DO NOT buy cheap materials either! that is a death sentence later on and youll be pist about the failure rate of some of these el-cheapo products. again ask your paint store guy for some better midrange products to save money or if you love your scooter buy the good stuff!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
T5s
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 14201
Location: The West Of Yorkshire ... Gods Country
Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:02 am quote
1200grit
14 rattle cans one in the shed for touch up
Hooked
'81 50 special,'57 GS150 VS3,'59 152L2,'60 SII Li150
Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 172
Location: Sevenoaks, Kent, England
Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:26 am quote
So that's why you cut it down, not so many rattle cans!

$700 on materials for a paint job? Don't know what that is in quids at the moment, but seems a bit steep to me.
Moderator
1962 GS160mk1, 1963 GS160mk2, 1965 SS180, 1974 Rally 200, wife's LI150
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 6949
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:39 am quote
hojo1690 wrote:
Sorry, Eric, I decided not to go with a vintage color.
Rudeboy Mike Tyson will eat your children if you don't go with an original vintage color!

Addicted
1980 P200e, 1956 ACMA, 1979 P200e, 1974 Ciao
Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 766
Location: Ithaca, NY
Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:12 am quote
Rover Eric wrote:
hojo1690 wrote:
Sorry, Eric, I decided not to go with a vintage color.
Rudeboy Mike Tyson will eat your children if you don't go with an original vintage color!

Eeep! Well, so long as he doesn't punch my scooter! I just got the dents out!

Eric e, $700 seems WAY out of whack. I got a quart each of primer, tint, and clear coat, hardeners, thinners, and some sandpaper for $150. This is all stuff from a professional auto paint store. If people will paint their $20,000 cars with this stuff, I'll paint my $2,000 scooter with it! lol

Mike
Moderator
1962 GS160mk1, 1963 GS160mk2, 1965 SS180, 1974 Rally 200, wife's LI150
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 6949
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:15 am quote
I hope it works out for you. I always buy the BEST quality paint i can, and the total cost of the tint, reducer and hardener is always right around 300 for me. Add a good quality primer ( i prefer expoxy primers ), good quality skim coat material, and a variety of sanding discs, and you're probably up to $450 easily.

This is why it's very hard to get a professional job on a scooter for under $1000. There's ridiculous amounts of hours spent in prep work before the paint even goes on.


Good luck.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 6461
Location: GT, Texas
Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:24 am quote
Rattle can is sounding more and more appealing with every new post.

shake, rattle, roll.
Moderator
1962 GS160mk1, 1963 GS160mk2, 1965 SS180, 1974 Rally 200, wife's LI150
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 6949
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:30 am quote
This is why i only buy sport-model bikes, as they're the only ones where you might be able to recoup the cost of a professional paint job in the value of the scooter

For everything else, rattle can
Member
most of them
Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Posts: 15
Location: phoenix
Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:13 am quote
Funny, everyone just sees the $700, I mentioned $500-$700 respectivley. Yeah its a lot, but you get what you pay for! Materials can very in cost from one product to another, and there are different quality materials as well. There are standard clear coats you can buy for $45 a quart with the hardener, then theres high solids clear coat you can get for $65 a quart. whats the difference? the high solids will look deeper and glossier in the end, have higher UV protection in it, and after 4 coats you can sand and buff it like glass! 2 coats of the standard clear with a NO BUFF will look ok, but wont last maybee a year or two before being oxidised and needing constant waxing to look good. You think a paint job should only cost $1000-$1500 then thats great theres someone out there who will do it for that or maybee even less im sure of it! Most people have the attitude that the scooter is only worth $2500 or that they only paid $500 for it so the paint shouldnt cost that much! The paint and body is the one thing EVERYONE notices on any motor vehicle, No one ever comes up to you and says, nice bodywork or nice motor dude! If your bike looks like A** they arent going to ask, "hey who painted that?" No one ever questions the outragouse cost of chrome plating, yet if you restore a bike, youll pay to rechrome $500 worth of parts easily or even spend $1000 on new rubbers and other parts right? SO WHY CHEAT ON THE PAINT JOB! Its the most important part of any restoration and the one thing everyone wants to spend no money on... Hey i understand people have budgets, I also understand that some guys want to "do it themselves" or DIY, thats cool with me, it gives you a total sense of gratification being able to tell everyone that "hey I did it myself" when they say, "hey nice scooter"! But remember it takes at around 60 hours to do all the paint and bodywork on a complete scooter and most shops are charging $50-$100 an hour for labor! I charge $35 an hour plus materials at my shop. Standard shop markup is 20% on materials and then you pay tax on them as well. @ $1000 to paint a scooter you'd be making $6-$9 an hour labor! Keep track of the time you spend on the paint and body, include all the time someone helps you out as well (youll have someone holding something etc) then keep all those reciepts and add them up at the end, incl the time & gas you spend driving around getting materials or taking parts to get sandblasted, powdercoated, welded, etc, and figure in what you make an hour at your day job. then it doesn't sound too bad paying to have someone else do it right?
Member
most of them
Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Posts: 15
Location: phoenix
Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:33 am quote
Heres a couple before and after photos of bikes Ive done just to prove my point that if you pay for quality - you get quality!

Lambretta S2 1960 rome olympics clone project




1970's vespa 150 super, chrome & paint 2-tone




1957 lambretta LD125 (my personal bike)




and finally heres a link to a thread I posted on the lambretta club website showing the entire restoration on that olympics clone lambretta:

http://www.lambretta.org/message/viewtopic.php?t=8788
Veni, Vidi, Posti
T5s
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 14201
Location: The West Of Yorkshire ... Gods Country
Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:36 am quote
monkey teeth
if ya do rattle cans fill the sink with warm water and let them stand in it for a while ... itll stop the spatter and youll get a smoother finish
Hooked
'81 50 special,'57 GS150 VS3,'59 152L2,'60 SII Li150
Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 172
Location: Sevenoaks, Kent, England
Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:32 pm quote
Hey Eric, sure if your a trader and painting is your bread and butter, I can understand the costs your looking at.

I like to mess about with my scooters in my spare time, I do not look at the time I spend on them as a cost, for me that is where the pleasure is.

Some people love to ride long distances, some people love the rally scene, some people love to build killer motors, and go faster than anyone else, me, I love to take a pile of rusty old crap and build a scooter.

$700 or 455 is a lot of money, and perfectly good paint jobs can be done for much less than that.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 6461
Location: GT, Texas
Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:36 pm quote
Re: monkey teeth
T5bitsa69 wrote:
if ya do rattle cans fill the sink with warm water and let them stand in it for a while ... itll stop the spatter and youll get a smoother finish
That's a hot tip. That will come in handy.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 6461
Location: GT, Texas
Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:46 pm quote
Whoa Eric! Those are some seriously nice scooters! Well done. I can appreciate the love and money that went into those babies. But the fully restored super badass custom is not my cup o' tea.

It's looking like a rattle can for sure. In fact I started tonight.

Yellow P200e Refurb UPDATE 6-11--10 Done and DONE!?postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40
Member
most of them
Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Posts: 15
Location: phoenix
Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:08 pm quote
you all need to understand that long before I was into scooters, i was into cars, as long as i can remember my father and his father had hot rods and thats what i grew up around, eventually it became a hobby and then a career! I worked for a major motorcycle manufacturer running their body shop for a couple of years before i went to work for a huge custom and restorations shop. I watched people spend $50K to paint a cigarette boat or $10K to paint a drag car body just so it could make one pass down the track on national tv for one race before painting it again totaly different for the next race! I was getting paid to do what i loved to do long before i fell in love with scooters... Its not about what my time is worth, but what i am happy doing and luckily that pays my bills! I have 9 scooters personally and only that green LD is finished full restoration. the bike has won 3 best of show awards at major rallies plus many other awards. I have 2 other bikes in the restoration phase at the moment for myself as well and I spare no expense on details. I also love riding my scooters and going to rallies. basically I enjoy the entire scooter scene as a whole and i dont take sides on what scooter is better or hold it against anyone for riding a twist and go, HEY ITS A SCOOTER any way you look at it! Everyone who has a scooter is a potential friend or customer and I treat them all the same, with respect. I mentioned that i understood some people are on a budget and cannot afford to spend $700 on materials, Hell i support the DIY guys and yes you can get a nice paint job for less than $1000, but doing it yourself for the first time does not guarentee or always yeild a perfect result and with any luck it teaches one to have more respect for the guys who do paint and body everyday for a paycheck. thats what i was getting at when i said keep track of your time involved.

Final Note: If you continue to ridicule the guy that is trying to answer your questions or educate you, that guy will eventually stop trying to help you...
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 6461
Location: GT, Texas
Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:08 am quote
eric e wrote:
Final Note: If you continue to ridicule the guy that is trying to answer your questions or educate you, that guy will eventually stop trying to help you...
I can't speak for anyone else, but I hope I didn't come off that way. Advice from a knowledgeable professional is always welcome here as far as I'm concerned. Especially from someone as obviously passionate about it as you are. I also reserve the right to do with that info what I will. In this case, ignore it and give my scooter project a shitty paint job

Seriously though, someone will benefit from your efforts, maybe even me if I ever decide my next scooter needs a full restoration... and there will be a next one.

Cheers
Ossessionato
1964 GS 160 MK II, 1967 Vespa GT, 1968 SS180, 1964 Vespa GL, 1964 Vespa VBB, 2006 Buddy 125, 2013 BMW C650GT
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 2236
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:33 am quote
eric e wrote:
Final Note: If you continue to ridicule the guy that is trying to answer your questions or educate you, that guy will eventually stop trying to help you...
Thanks! Good stuff!

I have a painting project coming up soon and I am trying to deceide how to go about it. This information really helps alot...even though I haven't deceided yet!
Member
most of them
Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Posts: 15
Location: phoenix
Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:37 am quote
no offense was taken actually, just gets old having people tell you in so many words that your wrong or crazy when I have been doing this for 13 years as a profession and they have never done it once!
In fact I had a 1963 ragtop bug at one pint that I drove for almost 10 years, it had a bomb can paint job on it and i made 3 major magazine articles with it! 2 in japan and one from the UK, and Im talkin 3 page spreads here!!

go back and click on the link posted under the photo of the green LD and read the 11 page forum entries about the step by step i did on that olympics lambretta. it will give a lot of basic insight into materials and whats involved in a restoration of paint and body. it answers a lot of questions and theres a ton of detailed photos incl. explaining all the steps you need to take to do it the right way or at least one right way. I did most of that bike in my back yard so it is basic info that anyone can use and apply it to any scooter. Good luck, ask lots of questions when in need, and youll be happy with the end result I am sure!
Hooked
74 Rally 200, Inian GP 200, Li 150 and 100 Sport
Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 179
Location: Ontario Canada
Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:22 am quote
Just read this old post.

I would like to put on some graphics/ stickers on as well. Is it possible to base coat, apply stickers and then clear? What are the pros/cons of doing this?
Member
most of them
Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Posts: 15
Location: phoenix
Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:40 am quote
yes that is how most decals are installed over top of base and then clear coated over to protect them. cons are that clear coat does not stick to the stickers and if chipped may peel or delaminate in those areas. if you have further questions you can email me directly through my shop at www.2ndavenuescooters.com or call me via phone. No offense, but I no longer post on this forum, Tired of the haters and ridicule on here with total lack of respect or understanding.
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