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Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 1773
Location: Latina (Italy)
Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:15 am quote
apex wrote:
Attila wrote:
I read this monumental report and at first I was baffled, then reconsidering the title and the subject I understood better.
From what I understand there are three types of restoration:
1) the conservative one that remains the Vespa as it is found but more or less original
2) the conservative one that remains the Vespa as it is found but modified more or less heavily
3) the total restoration that returns to the original
I believe that the case 2 is being treated for this topic
Not for this reason I think that it does not have its value and its meaning, one of the souls of the Vespa is also being able to modify it even in an extreme way because it is also synonymous with freedom ... or not?
Attila--I think it is not a question of conservative versus heavy restoration. Rather, a bodge is a scooter that has had a terribly rough life, often in a Southeast Asia country, and that someone then does a bunch of surface cosmetic work on using non-original parts so that is very shiny and so that it will appeal to uneducated buyers. Right below the shiny (and often ridiculously ostentatious) surface, you will still find that poor scooter that was beaten to death and that still has an enormous number of structural and/or mechanical issues, as well as safety issues.
Thanks for your patience and thanks for the clarification, these are new concepts for me and, although they may seem strange to you, they really stimulate my curiosity but also broaden my cultural horizons. You not can imagine how much I am learning by reading your posts.
Member
Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Posts: 37
Location: York, PA
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 1773
Location: Latina (Italy)
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:10 am quote
Much more than beautiful!
Ossessionato
1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 4887
Location: So Cal
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:40 am quote
Comes with all original parts ...

Maybe theyre in a box somewhere? Theyre not on the scoot.

72B27338-D987-40F6-B3D1-62623E9CE464.jpeg

Hooked
PX 150
Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 325
Location: Dublin, Ohio
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:06 am quote
$9,500???? Yeah. Right.
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 1773
Location: Latina (Italy)
Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:01 am quote
I give an example, this VL3T 150 (Struzzo) original, restored and registered in the Vespa Historical Register sold by a friend last year for 7000

Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Posts: 2849
Location: The Twin Cities of Minneapolis/Saint Paul, Minnesota
Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:45 am quote
Attila wrote:
I give an example, this VL3T 150 (Struzzo) original, restored and registered in the Vespa Historical Register sold by a friend last year for 7000
That, to my untrained eye, looks like the real deal, and a rarity.
Addicted
1967 Granturismo 177, 1979 P200E, 1974 Primavera 125
Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Posts: 568
Location: Austin, TX
Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:26 pm quote
The description says it all.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/318235168905219/[b]

They must get this stuff from some dark web bodge description generator.

I have this beautiful 1968 Vespa Sprint 150 for sale. This scooter has undergone a complete restoration - details below.

I do not have a lot of history on it since I've only spoken with the person I bought it from. He purchased it from the individual who did almost all of the restoration.

To my knowledge, just about everything on the scooter is either original, or appears to be replaced with original parts. The body is in near excellent condition, with no dents. The paint is good and glossy, but has some chips and a large scuff on the motor cowl. The restoration color appears correct (only two colors were available when new, and this color gray is one of them) The chrome crash bars are almost pristine, with no pitting or rust. The speedometer is bright and clear. The grips look new and the brake and clutch handles are correct. The headlight and horn also appear original.

All of the suspension components and brake system are in good, working condition. The motor starts right up from a cold start, idles well, and drives great. The 4-speed manual transmission shifts without a problem.

Tires are not original (obviously) but are in great condition. The white-walls really give it a nice, classic look.

All rubber has been replaced and is in very good condition. The rubber surrounding the two cowls have discolored a bit, but they are still very flexible.

The seats appear to be original and were re-covered by the previous owner. Additionally, he installed the fold-down cargo rack. Most of the emblems are in place (only a couple are missing but can be easily found online).

The scooter needs one new rubber kickstand peg and paint touch-up. The horn does not work.

I have keys for the ignition, steering wheel lock, gas cap, and both glove compartments.

The mileage shown on the odometer (in kilometers) was reported to me as original. I cannot vouch for that one way or the other since the scooter is in good enough condition to warrant such low mileage. Nevertheless, I have no further information to go on.

I have a clean blue title in my name.

I'll entertain good cash offers and trades. I'll add cash even if your trade is valued much higher than my Vespa.

Screenshot_20191011-222512_Facebook.jpg

Screenshot_20191011-222525_Facebook.jpg

Screenshot_20191011-222535_Facebook.jpg

Member
Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Posts: 37
Location: York, PA
Hooked
Vespa
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 381
Location: US
Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:17 pm quote
The last one looks like still in Nam. But wow $6500 for that junk while a pretty good one owner original paint 1974 Rally 200 sold at $3500.

I can use this $6500 to get a GS or TV175. Mine boggling.
Member
Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Posts: 37
Location: York, PA
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7339
Location: seattle/athens
Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:13 pm quote
So CLEAN!


Definitely one of the finer bodges here, but not $6500 finer.
That kinda money gets me TWO prime American Vespas, maybe three decent ones on a good day.
Or SIX and a half good projects if I had room!

But sure is good for a
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1315
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:19 pm quote
The sad thing is someone is going to buy the thing thinking what a sweet sweet ride and sweet deal they got. Crazy and sad...
Ossessionato
05 Stella, '62 VBB, 76 Sprint V, 63 GL
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2256
Location: Chicago. Well, Evanston, but that's almost Chicago
Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:11 pm quote
I'd be extra-leery of that one. I haven't been to Fayetteville in a lotta years, but I don't recall it looking like coastal lowlands, unless that's a side of town I missed.
Member
Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Posts: 37
Location: York, PA
Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:30 am quote
Did they ever actually make VBBs with totally smooth side cowls like that?
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 1773
Location: Latina (Italy)
Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:41 am quote
... the problem is that the models exported from Italy or from other countries of the world differed in some details, including aesthetic; now I know that the production destined for Italy is well documented, that destined for the rest of Europe more or less but that sent to the USA even by licensed builders remains in a very foggy limbo to be thinned out.
The question is: how many Vespas derived from the original have been modified to sell them adapted to the tastes of different users?
This could have happened ...
Hooked
Vespa
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 381
Location: US
Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:06 am quote
it's SEA style. They created this farso baso from the actual Super. Well I'm not sure what is really left of a Super.

On that VBB above, I believe it's from Super as well.

$4500 price tag. There is something wrong with it.

bodge103.jpg

bodge103a.jpg

Enthusiast
PX150E
Joined: 28 Oct 2018
Posts: 57
Location: Florida, USA
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:22 pm quote
Real Sprint Veloce?
What do you experts say?

If a real one, is the asking price in the ball park?


https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1123233391398456/
Ossessionato
05 Stella, '62 VBB, 76 Sprint V, 63 GL
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2256
Location: Chicago. Well, Evanston, but that's almost Chicago
Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:39 pm quote
It might be real. I can't quite tell from the pictures they posted. Headset seems off (it should be a trapezoid or smller than that).

I'm pretty certain, it's been resprayed at some point; the cowl guards are scooterworks imports, not original; wrong tail light; probably re-pop cowls with aftermarket turn signals, but a VBB-style switch plate on the headset and no lefthand horn/hi-lo; tail light replaced, too. It should have a tractor light.

The mudguard looks like it's off a P; seems like it's wider than a Sprint mudguard.

Even if it's legit, it's worth nowhere near three grand. Even here in the midwest, where sprints & supers are super-expensive for some reason, that bike would go for around $2k.

All-in-all, I'd definitely keep right on walking past that one.
Molto Verboso
1980 P200E project, 2005 Stella Mal 177 MKIII in pieces
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1128
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:53 pm quote
https://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/mcy/d/jamaica-piaggio-vespa-cc-scooter-like/6996029513.html

The seats are still shrink wrapped bro! I do love me a good trap headset, but damn, $8500!







BTW there is another one same location:
https://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/mcy/d/jamaica-piaggio-vespa-cc-scooter/6996019255.html

Neither of them will last at that price!
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7469
Location: San Francisco
Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:25 am quote
Re: Real Sprint Veloce?
sp949 wrote:
What do you experts say?

If a real one, is the asking price in the ball park?


https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1123233391398456/
I'm not seeing any of the same errors as others in this one.

it's a US market bike with smaller headlight and auto-lube, so not bodge out of SEA.

front fender is correct, cowls seem to have signals or reflectors on the back but no other indication they have been messed with.

the rear crash bars are vintage vigano (note how they don't attach to the cowl, they actually work). as a '72 the switch is correct for the US market.

agree that the tail light is wrong, this would have had the round tuna can tail light. But in the '80s it was common ditch the US taillight. maybe the original is in the box of parts.

speaking of box of parts, the correct rear seat mounting plate is in there as well as a vintage vigano rear spare holder.

Is it worth 3000? for some.
Enthusiast
PX150E
Joined: 28 Oct 2018
Posts: 57
Location: Florida, USA
Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:47 pm quote
Re: Real Sprint Veloce?
oopsclunkthud wrote:
sp949 wrote:
What do you experts say?

If a real one, is the asking price in the ball park?


https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1123233391398456/
I'm not seeing any of the same errors as others in this one.

it's a US market bike with smaller headlight and auto-lube, so not bodge out of SEA.

front fender is correct, cowls seem to have signals or reflectors on the back but no other indication they have been messed with.

the rear crash bars are vintage vigano (note how they don't attach to the cowl, they actually work). as a '72 the switch is correct for the US market.

agree that the tail light is wrong, this would have had the round tuna can tail light. But in the '80s it was common ditch the US taillight. maybe the original is in the box of parts.

speaking of box of parts, the correct rear seat mounting plate is in there as well as a vintage vigano rear spare holder.

Is it worth 3000? for some.
That was what I was thinking, except for the price being sort of high, but not unreasonable. Real Sprints in Italy in that condition easily fetch that kind of money, and around $ 5000 if correctly restored.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7339
Location: seattle/athens
Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:10 pm quote
Plus 2. My opinion is you're better off putting 3K into this one rather than, say 2k into something similar w/ a hopped up motor and an acceptable, but obvious respray. Bonus, looks like those old cowl guards have been doing their job well all these years too. Minty looking unscratched cowls do not come around often !

aaa2.jpg

aaa1.jpg

Ossessionato
05 Stella, '62 VBB, 76 Sprint V, 63 GL
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2256
Location: Chicago. Well, Evanston, but that's almost Chicago
Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:54 am quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
I'm not seeing any of the same errors as others in this one.
V oodoo wrote:
Plus 2.
I stand corrected.

A set of those Vigano cowl protectors that were on my VBB when I got it. I thought they were Scooterworks/Prima's re-pop's. I don't know if I still have them or not, though.
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 1773
Location: Latina (Italy)
Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:31 am quote
You are making me want to import vintage Vespas in the USA, with the knowledge of restorers that I would become rich in a short time ... and they are totally original vehicles! You don't understand but here (in Italy) at the moment there is a lot of offer and the prices fall.
Enthusiast
P Series / Li / LML / Motobi
Joined: 24 Jun 2019
Posts: 96
Location: 3rd Rock From the Sun
Mon Oct 28, 2019 2:05 am quote
seeing some of the prices for bodges in the USofA, makes the bodges available in The UK, cheap by comparison!!
Hooked
P200E
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 462
Location: The Town that dreaded Sundown.
Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:44 pm quote
Gravelrash2004 wrote:
seeing some of the prices for bodges in the USofA, makes the bodges available in The UK, cheap by comparison!!
Yeah I just can believe what people pay for these things. Would think such a large investment would also come with some fairly simple research
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7339
Location: seattle/athens
Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:44 pm quote
1968's vintage Vespa VLB Sprint 150 Fully Restored FREE SHIP
Blame EBay. They are just too easy to grab, so shiny and sparkly, so romantic and fairly affordable... this one for only 3K when ppl see them for 4 or 5 all the time? "That's not much and I will be so cool on such a dependable and handsome classic! "
Quote:
This scooter has been totally restored, repainted and reupholstered with the best parts and materials by the best of mechanics and artisans.
First hit on googling "ebay vespa"
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1968s-vintage-Vespa-VLB-Sprint-150-Fully-Restored-FREE-SHIPPING/333377436314


So why pay the same money for this tired old thing? Nearly the same bike, but one is fully reconditioned.



/EBay rant
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:25 am quote
Attila wrote:
You are making me want to import vintage Vespas in the USA, with the knowledge of restorers that I would become rich in a short time ... and they are totally original vehicles! You don't understand but here (in Italy) at the moment there is a lot of offer and the prices fall.
Seriously? You are saying prices in Italy are going to drop? Im from Belgium, and for a while now, Italy is known here to have amongst the highest prices in Europe. belgian prices are fairly high still.. for the moment, best prices are imho in France, but a lot of ACMA (not that that is a problem).
Hooked
Vespa
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 381
Location: US
Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:58 am quote
DD_VES wrote:
Attila wrote:
You are making me want to import vintage Vespas in the USA, with the knowledge of restorers that I would become rich in a short time ... and they are totally original vehicles! You don't understand but here (in Italy) at the moment there is a lot of offer and the prices fall.
Seriously? You are saying prices in Italy are going to drop? Im from Belgium, and for a while now, Italy is known here to have amongst the highest prices in Europe. belgian prices are fairly high still.. for the moment, best prices are imho in France, but a lot of ACMA (not that that is a problem).
I see lot of ACMA from France are listing in the 5-6k euro and people are buying like hot cakes.
Hooked
'63 VBB2T - '18 300 GTS Super Notte
Joined: 26 Apr 2019
Posts: 250
Location: Belgium
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:47 am quote
ph0ngvu wrote:
DD_VES wrote:
Attila wrote:
You are making me want to import vintage Vespas in the USA, with the knowledge of restorers that I would become rich in a short time ... and they are totally original vehicles! You don't understand but here (in Italy) at the moment there is a lot of offer and the prices fall.
Seriously? You are saying prices in Italy are going to drop? Im from Belgium, and for a while now, Italy is known here to have amongst the highest prices in Europe. belgian prices are fairly high still.. for the moment, best prices are imho in France, but a lot of ACMA (not that that is a problem).
I see lot of ACMA from France are listing in the 5-6k euro and people are buying like hot cakes.
In the US? Or in France?

Good site for it is leboncoin.fr
Member
Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Posts: 37
Location: York, PA
Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:36 am quote
What are our thoughts on this one? I'm going to go check it out on Sunday, but only have this one photo. I'm hoping all that brown is just dirt...

Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 1773
Location: Latina (Italy)
Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:15 am quote
OUCH!
r_fostoria wrote:
What are our thoughts on this one? I'm going to go check it out on Sunday, but only have this one photo. I'm hoping all that brown is just dirt...
Look at it well under the central section and bring a magnet, if it attacks little or nothing there is too much rust inside the central profile; you can also press using a nail to see if it breaks...

Last edited by Attila on Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:27 am; edited 2 times in total
Molto Verboso
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Moto Guzzi Airone 250 Sport 1951
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 1773
Location: Latina (Italy)
Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:20 am quote
DD_VES wrote:
Attila wrote:
You are making me want to import vintage Vespas in the USA, with the knowledge of restorers that I would become rich in a short time ... and they are totally original vehicles! You don't understand but here (in Italy) at the moment there is a lot of offer and the prices fall.
Seriously? You are saying prices in Italy are going to drop? Im from Belgium, and for a while now, Italy is known here to have amongst the highest prices in Europe. belgian prices are fairly high still.. for the moment, best prices are imho in France, but a lot of ACMA (not that that is a problem).
Seriously, but you have to go to newspaper ads or accumulators of vintage models that don't go to dedicated markets; a friend near me had difficulty selling two Vespas 98 and lowered the price otherwise he had no room for more; you must understand that in Italy they sell the most usable models every day from mid-60s upwards.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7339
Location: seattle/athens
Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:54 am quote
Best prices I've found are in Greece followed closely by USA if you lay in the weeds and get lucky. Check out P200s here, but older stuff in Europe has go ne up from what I've seen unless you have a hookup or get lucky. Do not underestimate good luck when getting what you want:
https://www.car.gr/used-bikes/vespa.html?sort=pra&condition=new&condition=used&model=7012&model=7011&model=8020&model=6998&model=6996&model=6997&offer_type=sale&fs=1




500 euro for this beauty



or step up to this PX w/ disk brake for 700



or a cool thousand if you want pretty

sorry, no bodges here

/jack
Member
Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Posts: 37
Location: York, PA
Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:26 am quote
Attila wrote:
OUCH!
Yeah, no kidding. This thing was cool... but it was also crusty. Definitely no bodging going on, but the floor, particularly in the back was too flaky for me. Probably restorable by someone with experience, but too much for my first one. As it turns out, buying an old Vespa is really difficult.



Hooked
lml 2t Vespa lx50 2t
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 142
Location: wales
Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:39 pm quote
Seems to have no rhyme or reason prices in UK on internet. I bought my 2t lml for 800 which I considered fair and been good for the last few years. I now see Vespa px's offered at 800 -1100 for average condition one and people wanting 1000- 1900 for lml's
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7339
Location: seattle/athens
Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:20 am quote
Back on track now with REAL vintage classic authentic BODGERY. This one's almost a Bodge poster child, but I really put it up because I liked the full disclosure in the ad copy. Regardless, a steal for only 3K for such an attractive bike, an almost subtle two tone with an expensive custom paint job. It is interesting that it's still on eights.

Quote:
....It does not start, I was told it needs minimal work done. No major damage to the scooter.
https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/mcy/d/orange-vespa-1961-piaggio/7012492830.html
Hooked
Vespa
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 381
Location: US
Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:54 pm quote
V oodoo wrote:
Back on track now with REAL vintage classic authentic BODGERY. This one's almost a Bodge poster child, but I really put it up because I liked the full disclosure in the ad copy. Regardless, a steal for only 3K for such an attractive bike, an almost subtle two tone with an expensive custom paint job. It is interesting that it's still on eights.
Quote:
....It does not start, I was told it needs minimal work done. No major damage to the scooter.
https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/mcy/d/orange-vespa-1961-piaggio/7012492830.html
Settling at 3k. Makes me wonder how much the seller spent to acquire this Vespa from SEA.
Member
Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Posts: 37
Location: York, PA
Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:38 pm quote
Here we have a '66 150 Super with a P series brake pedal and totally original teal and cream two tone paint; always a good sign:

https://treasure.craigslist.org/mcy/d/vero-beach-1966-vespa-150-super/7005352577.html


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