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Member
MP 3 500
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 9
Location: West Virginia
Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:25 pm quote
In your state can you ride the MP3 without a motorcycle endorsement because of the three wheel configuration ?

I know that some states require a motorcycle endorsement and an addition three wheel endorsement.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
. . 2008 Blue MP3 400. . di Peluria Orso .... 1993 Kawasaki Vulcan 500 ....... 2013 Honda NC700XD
Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 5956
Location: Milledgeville, GA
Sun Sep 12, 2010 1:56 pm quote
In Georgai 3 wheels or less and more than 50cc is a motorcycle.
Addicted
Burgman 400
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 757
Location: U.S.S.A.
Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:08 pm quote
North Dakota, under 50cc doesn’t require a motorcycle license.
Bracketmeister
Bracketmeister Emeritus (retired)
Joined: 03 Jun 2009
Posts: 2519
Location: New Jersey
Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:15 pm quote
New Jersey, anything under 50cc and with working pedals to pedal the vehicle is a moped, requiring registration and insurance and some sort of driver's license. Four wheels and meeting all DOT automobile requirements is a car. Otherwise, it is a motorcycle, no exceptions. That means that trikes are motorcycles, a 49cc scooter is a motorcycle, and in fact I noticed that the state DMV web site has not even been updated to reflect the now four-years-old federal Electric Bicycle Act (pedals + <2HP electric motor + <20mph not to be considered as a motor vehicle by state authorities).

Almost nobody in New Jersey takes a driver's test on a real motorcycle (outside those going through the completely optional Motorcycle Safety Foundation courses, anyway), everybody rents an 80cc Honda for a half-hour because the inspection stations have to recognize them and let's face it, you simply can't fail a road test on an 80cc scooter. It's an in-state joke that as long as you can afford a half-hour rental, you can get an "M" endorsement and have no idea how to actually drive a motorcycle.
Banned
MP3 500
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 4530
Location: Ashburn, Va
Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:42 pm quote
I think the only state you don't need an M class license is Ca.
Bracketmeister
Bracketmeister Emeritus (retired)
Joined: 03 Jun 2009
Posts: 2519
Location: New Jersey
Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:09 pm quote
Interesting note I found on Washington state's DOL site:
---------------------
If you ride a 3-wheel vehicle in Washington, you must get a sidecar/trike endorsement unless your vehicle meets all of the following requirements:

The seat is in a partially or completely enclosed seating area.
The vehicle is equipped with safety belts.
The vehicle is steered with a steering wheel.
---------------------
I noted that there was no exception listed for a leaning vehicle such as the MP3 at all - Washington owners, what's up with that?

I also know that many, maybe most, states have some sort of consideration for scooters (at least below some displacement), for example I know in Maryland they sell scooters that would be considered motorcycles in NJ right out of Pep Boys stores, no state paperwork involved - I assume they wind up with either a standalone scooter registration or else are considered a moped. I have been told that only NJ and Indiana takes the definition of a "moped" completely literally; a store in Pompton Lakes NJ tried selling imported 49cc scooters as mopeds and was quickly shut down.
Molto Verboso
MP3 500 08
Joined: 08 Aug 2009
Posts: 1533
Location: Toms River area, New Jersey
Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:58 am quote
After years of "learning", my believe in a staged upgrading of motorcycle license is reality. Think a person should have to demonstrate riding ability on increasing HP sizes. Many people have been injured or killed, because of jumping on a size, they are not skilled with. My idea is 1 level up to 300cc, 2nd level 301-750cc, the final 3rd level above. Each range does have its' own skill set of balance and handling. Proof of some idiot just buying a large bike or car, and then crashing it before next oil change. The new required safety courses are a step forward.
Hooked
2007 MP3 250
Joined: 17 Apr 2010
Posts: 108
Location: South Carolina Lowcountry
Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:34 am quote
StooterBoy wrote:
I think the only state you don't need an M class license is Ca.
Nope. Here in SC there's no endorsement required for a 3-wheeler. Any valid driver license except the class "G" (moped only) is sufficient.

This took effect in June of '09, same as the red-light motorcycle law that lets you ignore the red light if the sensor hasn't tripped after 120 seconds.

Prior to last year, you needed a motorcycle endorsement AND another endorsement for a 3-wheeled motorcycle. ABATE successfully lobbied to get it changed, pointing out that the DMV's motorcycle road-test setup simply isn't possible to complete on many modern 3-wheelers.
Ossessionato
2009 MP3 500 - The Iridescent Chameleon, 2007 Kawasaki Ninja 650R - Plasma Bolt, 2007 Yamaha Vino 125
Joined: 18 Jun 2010
Posts: 2142
Location: Geneseo, IL (Quad City area)
Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:49 am quote
rjeffb wrote:
Interesting note I found on Washington state's DOL site:
---------------------
If you ride a 3-wheel vehicle in Washington, you must get a sidecar/trike endorsement unless your vehicle meets all of the following requirements:

The seat is in a partially or completely enclosed seating area.
The vehicle is equipped with safety belts.
The vehicle is steered with a steering wheel.
---------------------
I noted that there was no exception listed for a leaning vehicle such as the MP3 at all - Washington owners, what's up with that?

I also know that many, maybe most, states have some sort of consideration for scooters (at least below some displacement), for example I know in Maryland they sell scooters that would be considered motorcycles in NJ right out of Pep Boys stores, no state paperwork involved - I assume they wind up with either a standalone scooter registration or else are considered a moped. I have been told that only NJ and Indiana takes the definition of a "moped" completely literally; a store in Pompton Lakes NJ tried selling imported 49cc scooters as mopeds and was quickly shut down.
The definition of a Moped in Indiana doesn't include pedals. From the BMV webpage: http://www.in.gov/bmv/files/Indiana_Driver_Manual.pdf

Motorized Bicycles
A motorized bicycle, commonly known as a “moped,” is defined under Indiana law as a
two- or three-wheeled vehicle, is propelled by a motor or engine, has no more than
two-horse power, a cylinder capacity not exceeding 50 cubic centimeters, an automatic
transmission and a maximum design speed of 25 miles per hour. Vehicles with
engines exceeding these limits are motorcycles, and a person must meet the licensing
requirements to legally operate such a vehicle. A manufacturer’s certificate of origin or
a certificate of title, if any, to the vehicle will indicate whether such vehicle is a
motorized bicycle or a motorcycle.
The following requirements apply to the operator of a motorized bicycle:
• An operator of a motorized bicycle must be at least 15 years of age.
• An operator of a motorized bicycle must have a valid driver’s license or have a
current BMV-issued identification card in his or her possession.
• A motorized bicycle may not be operated on an interstate highway or at a speed
in excess of 25 miles per hour.
• If an individual is less than 18 years of age, he or she is required to wear
protective headgear and protective glasses, goggles or transparent face shield.

And I can confirm that PepBoys does sell 49.5cc scooters in Indiana, because I bought one. And let me tell you, it was a real hassle to try to return when it broke down within about 100 miles...

Anyway, Illinois requires license plates/registration/insurance for any size scooter, but doesn't have a special license class for trikes. Just L for less than 150cc and M for all displacements. And since you have to use motorcycle plates on an MP3, you have to also have a motorcycle endorsement.
Ossessionato
MP3 500 - GTV250
Joined: 07 Jul 2010
Posts: 2633
Location: Near Pittsburgh
Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:20 am quote
jw_fox wrote

This took effect in June of '09, same as the red-light motorcycle law that lets you ignore the red light if the sensor hasn't tripped after 120 seconds.


That is so rational, I know they'll never do it in Pennsylvania.
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 19 Jul 2010
Posts: 376
Location: Seattle, WA
Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:15 am quote
Washington state requires a 3-wheel (Type 5) license. Most people though just use a 2-wheel (Type 3) license in this state and have no problems. I decided to get my 3-wheel endorsement when I bought my MP3 500 because I fear what insurance might say if I get into an accident and they decide that I did not have the proper license to operate my vehicle.

When taking my 3-wheel test I already had my 2-wheel (Type 3) license. I took the 3-wheel written test and then had to take the 2-wheel riding test to get my trike endorsement. I think that repeating the 2-wheel test for a trike endorsement was ridiculous, but that's the way it goes with the MP3. Anyway, it cost me $20 total for testing and renewal fees, but now I have the Type 7 endorsement and am legal to ride both motorcycle, trikes, and sidecars.

Now all I need as a trucker's license and a limo operating permit and I've got it all.
Hooked
2009 MP3 400
Joined: 14 Nov 2008
Posts: 264
Location: Loveland, Colorado
Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:09 am quote
Missouri 50cc or larger, 2 or 3 wheels leaning or not, all are considered motorcycles and require registration and insurance. But unfortunately there are MANY differences with local municipalities which can cause a lot of confusion.
Banned
MP3 500
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 4530
Location: Ashburn, Va
Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:39 am quote
Fritz wrote:
Missouri 50cc or larger, 2 or 3 wheels leaning or not, all are considered motorcycles and require registration and insurance. But unfortunately there are MANY differences with local municipalities which can cause a lot of confusion.
How is that, the State makes licensing laws not Local Municipalities?
Hooked
2009 MP3 400
Joined: 14 Nov 2008
Posts: 264
Location: Loveland, Colorado
Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:00 am quote
Yep you would think so........but when nobody questions or has the means to question city hall that's the way it happens, least here in the show me state.
Banned
MP3 500
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 4530
Location: Ashburn, Va
Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:10 am quote
That's easy, get a Lawyer.
It's a State Drivers License, not a Japolin Mo. drivers license.
Hooked
2009 MP3 400
Joined: 14 Nov 2008
Posts: 264
Location: Loveland, Colorado
Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:34 am quote
Yep your right but at least in my area the general consensus is it's not worth the hassle, and lawyers cost LOTS of money that most here can't afford.
Banned
MP3 500
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 4530
Location: Ashburn, Va
Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:39 am quote
Find a public attorney or a law student, it's wouldn't take much to win. Hell all someones needs to do is look up the state licening law and present it to the court, case won.

I still find it hard to believe local jurisdictions are making licensing laws. Would love to hear just one example.
Member
Fuoco 500
Joined: 15 Sep 2010
Posts: 45
Location: Halesowen UK
Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:52 am quote
Here in the UK,
Three wheels = Trike and under UK law you either need a full bike licence or full uk driving PLG licence.
Hooked
2009 MP3 400
Joined: 14 Nov 2008
Posts: 264
Location: Loveland, Colorado
Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:57 am quote
Yea I have to admit that all I hear is one side of the stories but there are many and consistant
Banned
MP3 500
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 4530
Location: Ashburn, Va
Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:28 am quote
But, are they drivers license related or just driving related, two totally different scenarios? I bet driving related.
Hooked
2009 MP3 400
Joined: 14 Nov 2008
Posts: 264
Location: Loveland, Colorado
Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:36 am quote
The one that I actually saw was a 49cc scooter and he was written citations for no helmet, no registration, no insurance and no motorcycle endorsement on his license. I actually saw that paper work. Also know the kid said that it wasn't worth the effort to fight and registered his 49cc scooter and took his M/C riding and written test, and bought insurance but still doesn't ride with a helmet, and yes Missouri has a helmet law for ALL ages and types of bikes.
Ossessionato
2009 MP3 500 - The Iridescent Chameleon, 2007 Kawasaki Ninja 650R - Plasma Bolt, 2007 Yamaha Vino 125
Joined: 18 Jun 2010
Posts: 2142
Location: Geneseo, IL (Quad City area)
Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:56 pm quote
I read an article in the local paper here the other day about how some local cities have laws different for neighborhood electric vehicles (think golf cart). Statewide, it's illegal to drive them on the road, but a couple of towns around here have passed laws to make them legal within certain limits.

But, as ScooterBoy pointed out, that's really more of a driving thing than a driver's license thing.
Banned
MP3 500
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 4530
Location: Ashburn, Va
Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:27 pm quote
CubsKing99 wrote:
I read an article in the local paper here the other day about how some local cities have laws different for neighborhood electric vehicles (think golf cart). Statewide, it's illegal to drive them on the road, but a couple of towns around here have passed laws to make them legal within certain limits.

But, as ScooterBoy pointed out, that's really more of a driving thing than a driver's license thing.
Yes, that is like WV, there are towns near the Hat Field McCoy Trail ( www.trailsheaven.com ) you can ride ATV's on the roads.
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