Newbie HELP- ELECTRICS WIRING PROBLEM with my LML VESPA!!
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Hooked
Piaggio LML NV VESPA 150cc
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Republic of Macedonia,Europe
Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:39 pm quote
Hi guys

I almost finished my PIAGGIO LML NV VESPA 150cc that I restored for about 1 year.It is almost 90% done,but I came on to a problems with the ELECTRICS. since I can't find the original Indian LML NV 150 electric wiring diagram (and it is not the same as PX 150,because the wires are in different colours) I can't finish the VESPA
Me and my friend thought that we will finish it but there is no electricity coming in some wires and we don't know where it is coming from.I have bought a new 5 port Regulator (because the previous owner told me that it is the only thing that it isn't working) but I'm affraid that something else might be wrong,not working (that green thing or that white thing next to the regulator)..............The indicators,horn... didn't work,but it might be that it isn't properly connected.I really don't know

Any suggestions or help would be appreciated

I'm from Europe by the way and my PIAGGIO LML NV 150cc is the first model without battery and from 1991.

HELP HELP HELP please.......It is almost finished but this is frustrating !!!
Hooked
Piaggio LML NV VESPA 150cc
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Republic of Macedonia,Europe
Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:33 pm quote
So no one knows how to help??

We worked for 4 housr today,and still couldn't work it out.It seems that the currency is to powerful ,more then 12v and we don;t know why! We figured out some of the wires,but not everything.And we don't know why the currency is that much powerful,it will blow every bulb........
If someone knows some tips,please write something

Thanks

Juno106
Member
Super Veloce
Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Posts: 18
Location: Florida
Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:01 pm quote
I just finished putting the LML engine on a 1970 VLB. There is a blue and black wire coming out of the engine. The blue is +, the black is ground. My engine and scooter is all 6 volts.
the Blue wire will go to the regulator (which is grounded to the frame.)
The other wires coming out of the engine are for the ignition. I have the Ducati coil, and matched up colors.
The wiring kit I bought from Scooterworks included a new harness, regulator and handlebar switch. There is a wiring diagram they publish, but I'm not sure it is totally correct for the switch. I had to spend a lot of time figuring out what made things work.
Three links that should help.
http://www.scooterworks.com/images/pdf/new_eik_harness_bw.pdf
http://www.scooterworks.com/Harness_Kit_Wiring_Conversion-P3721.aspx
http://www.scooterworks.com/wiki/lml_engine_install_faq.ashx

Dave
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Piaggio LML NV VESPA 150cc
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Republic of Macedonia,Europe
Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:35 am quote
Thank you Dave for your reply,but I have LML NV 150cc which is the same engine as VESPA PX 150 (I guess) and it is 12V so I'm not sure that it is the same as yours. But maybe I'm wrong....I don't know because I'm not good with electrics and mechanics.
Hooked
Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Posts: 363
Location: United Kingdom
Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:51 am quote
Why did you buy a 5 port regulator/rectifier? From the photo's you posted in an earlier thread, and the fact that it isn't a battery model, you were advised you needed a standard AC regulator.
Hooked
Piaggio LML NV VESPA 150cc
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Republic of Macedonia,Europe
Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:17 am quote
I bought 5 port regulator because I wasn't sure at the time when I needed to buy the regulator if my LML NV was with batery or not. SO someone here I think in this forum advised me to buy 5 port regulator because it was suppose to be UNIVERSAL and fits both models of VEspa with batery and without one. That is why I bought it.
Do you think that this is the problem maybe for the too much powerful electric power in the Vespa and wiring????
Hooked
Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Posts: 363
Location: United Kingdom
Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:56 am quote
juno106 wrote:
I bought 5 port regulator because I wasn't sure at the time when I needed to buy the regulator if my LML NV was with batery or not. SO someone here I think in this forum advised me to buy 5 port regulator because it was suppose to be UNIVERSAL and fits both models of VEspa with batery and without one. That is why I bought it.
Ah, I see. Well the correct 5 port will be able to be used on an AC only model, but as they normally cost more you've wasted money. If the voltage out of the regulator is blowing bulbs, it is defective or wired incorrectly. Are you sure the regulator was earthed properly when you tested it?
Hooked
Piaggio LML NV VESPA 150cc
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Republic of Macedonia,Europe
Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:37 pm quote
well that is what we are trying to figure out.HOW TO WIRE EVERYTHING CORRECTLY. we managed to find some of the wires where should they be connected,but we can't figure out everything.And the new LIGHTS SWITCH that I bought has different wires and coloursthat are different from the old one,so that is why we can't figure everything out.And there seems to be that is some very powerfull currency coming from somewhere..........To be honest I don'y know nothing about electricity and Vespa(this is my first Vespa),my friends are trying to help me. And since the colours of the wires are different on my LML NV VESPA from 1991 and VESPA PX 150,we can't follow the manual and wiring diagram for VESPA PX.
Thats why I need the original witring diagram for my LML NV 1,but it doesn't exist anywhere on internet

This is the LIGHTSWITCH that I bought now,maybe someone can figure it out which wires goes where:

http://www.scooter-center.com/scoweb/pages/productdetail.grid?product=288621641468288&target=productdetail&category1=C&category2=CAT
Hooked
Piaggio LML NV VESPA 150cc
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Republic of Macedonia,Europe
Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:56 am quote
Is it possible that the 5 port RECTIFIER/REGULATOR that I have bought makes the problem with high currency? Does it has to be 3 port regulator or it doesn't matter? I have bought this one from BEEDSPEED in UK,and there is nothing written on it.Maybe it's some chinese fake regulator !!!!! Or maybe the wires are connected in a wrong way!
Hooked
bunch "o" bikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Trail, B.C, Canada
Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:33 am quote
post pictures of the reg/rec, the stator wires and the wires at the junction box and battery tray and I'll tell you how to hook them up and/or test the setup.
I use the 5 pole reg/rec in a couple of my bikes (non battery)..I just use the regulator side.
Hooked
Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Posts: 363
Location: United Kingdom
Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:48 am quote
juno106 wrote:
Is it possible that the 5 port RECTIFIER/REGULATOR that I have bought makes the problem with high currency? Does it has to be 3 port regulator or it doesn't matter?
No, as I said you can use a 5 port for an AC machine. All you need to use on it are the 2 connections marked the same, ie. A,A or G,G (depending on the reg/rec you have) and the earth connection. Use one of these connections for the stator power wire and all other circuits (bar ignition)are fed from the other.
Hooked
Piaggio LML NV VESPA 150cc
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Republic of Macedonia,Europe
Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:17 am quote
OK SEAN S

I will go tomorrow and take some photos of everything and will post them here,and maybe you can help me then.

THANK YOU GUYS for your replies
Hooked
Piaggio LML NV VESPA 150cc
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Republic of Macedonia,Europe
Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:52 pm quote
Here are the pics that I took today of all the wires that are on my LML NV VESPA.....It is PIAGGIO LML NV VESPA 150CC made in 1991. The light switch and indicators switch are brand new and they are made for PIAGGIO VESPA PX,so that is why the wires are different colours then my LML NV.....

If anyone knows how to connect all the wires,please take some time and explain to me which wire goes where.

Thank you in advance to all of you for your help

SEAN_S.....here they are,all of them

DSCF0836.JPG

DSCF0826.JPG

DSCF0837.JPG

DSCF0838.JPG

DSCF0840.JPG

DSCF0892.JPG

DSCF0895.JPG

DSCF0896.JPG

front.JPG
front side

back side.JPG
back side

DSCF0887.JPG

DSCF0833.JPG

DSCF0890.JPG

DSCF0882.JPG
Fuel tank

Hooked
Piaggio LML NV VESPA 150cc
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Republic of Macedonia,Europe
Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:58 pm quote
Here comes some more pics of LIGHT SWITCH and INDICATORS SWITCH:

DSCF0816.JPG
Indicators switch

DSCF0820.JPG
Indicators switch

DSCF0904.JPG
Indicators switch

DSCF0906.JPG
Indicators switch

DSCF0829.JPG
Light switch

DSCF0830.JPG
Light switch

DSCF0831.JPG
Light switch

DSCF0841.JPG
Light switch

DSCF0900.JPG
Light switch

DSCF0901.JPG
Light switch

DSCF0902.JPG
Light switch

DSCF0903.JPG
Light switch

Hooked
Piaggio LML NV VESPA 150cc
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Republic of Macedonia,Europe
Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:04 pm quote
And finally,Pics of IGNITION parts and wires that come from the engine:

DSCF0844.JPG
engine wires

DSCF0846.JPG
engine wires

DSCF0848.JPG
engine wires

DSCF0849.JPG
engine wires

DSCF0852.JPG
IGNITION

DSCF0853.JPG
IGNITION

DSCF0854.JPG
IGNITION

DSCF0865.JPG
IGNITION

DSCF0878.JPG
IGNITION

DSCF0880.JPG
IGNITION

Hooked
bunch "o" bikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Trail, B.C, Canada
Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:22 pm quote
jeezus....
O.K......great pictures.
what you have there is the bastard son of an LML Star motor, PX frame and different model switches.

first step, regulated power...I need to see what's under the green and yellow tape and shrink wrap stuff, or tell me what the wire connections are EG: white to white, blk. to blk., blue to blue/green...

then we go to step 2
Hooked
Piaggio LML NV VESPA 150cc
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Republic of Macedonia,Europe
Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:34 am quote
I think that we connected those wires (under the yellow/green tape) according to their colour but I will take photos of them and post it here so that you can see better
Hooked
bunch "o" bikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Trail, B.C, Canada
Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:28 am quote
great.......and one more question, does the bike run?
Hooked
Piaggio LML NV VESPA 150cc
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Republic of Macedonia,Europe
Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:27 am quote
The bike and engine is OK.It runs and it starts OK with the kickstarter.The problem as I said is that there seems to be very high currency,it is very powerfull,more then 12V or probably maybe even higher then 24v.We don't know.It allready blew the small bulb in our screwdriver (the one that you measure and test the power in the wires if you know what I mean).
Maybe it is false regulator that I bought (some chinese maybe) ,but I don't really know.
And I',sorry for my english,because I might not understand every word you say since I'm from EUROPE and english is not my mother language. And my LML NV is probably made for Indian and European market in 1991 and I guess in USA it was called STELLA or something else.I'm not sure if it is the same model.This is LICENCED COPY OF PX 150 I guess.
Just to make it clear,I bought my VEspa last year and I dissasembled the whole Vespa in order to paint it,so we connected the wires according to some of the pics that I took when I dissasembled the Vespa.

Here are the pics that I just took of the wires that you asked me to and there is a pic of the old original regulator that is suppose to be dead (according to the mechanic that maintained the Vespa with the previous owner).

DSCF0917.JPG

DSCF0914.JPG

DSCF0915.JPG

DSCF0919.JPG

Hooked
bunch "o" bikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Trail, B.C, Canada
Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:50 am quote
Your english is 100% better than some of the people from England on this board.....
At work...can't type....get fired....
I'll have some ideas for you this afternoon
Hooked
bunch "o" bikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Trail, B.C, Canada
Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:27 pm quote
You need about 4 feet of wire.
disconnect the blue stator wire and run your 4 feet of wire from the blue stator wire to the regulator, then test the voltage with a little throttle.
you can test the other regulator this way too, just make sure it is grounded.

stator.JPG

Hooked
Piaggio LML NV VESPA 150cc
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Republic of Macedonia,Europe
Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:39 pm quote
I'm sorry but what is stator and which exactly BLUE WIRE are we talking about here? Where should I connect that 4 feet wire to the regulator?
Is that BLUE WIRE the wire that comes out on the other side from the engine?The ones that I photographed today,the last pictures?

I'm sorry but I really don't know electrical terms
Hooked
Piaggio LML NV VESPA 150cc
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Republic of Macedonia,Europe
Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:09 pm quote
I think I understood you.
And after I do that and if everything is OK,what next? Explain it to me wire by wire if you can.Which wire goes where????
Hooked
bunch "o" bikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Trail, B.C, Canada
Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:42 pm quote
try this...
disconnect the 2 blue wires at the motor.
disconnect the 2 wires from the voltage regulator
try this picture

222.jpg

Hooked
Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Posts: 363
Location: United Kingdom
Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:34 pm quote
Juno, from the photo's, it appears that you have the wrong light/horn switch. It looks like your system uses the "push to break horn switch. On these models power from the stator goes to the headset on the blue wire to the horn switch, there it connects (through the horn switch) to the yellow/red and then back to the regulator. The horn, itself, is wired in parallel with the switch so that when pushed current must pass through the horn to get to the reg.
If your switch is the wrong type then power will not reach the reg, so where you do get power will be unregulated and be therefore much higher than 12v.
Kev.
Hooked
Piaggio LML NV VESPA 150cc
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Republic of Macedonia,Europe
Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:13 am quote
OH MY GOD..........so I need to buy new light switch now????
uuffffffff.......... Can there be made some changes with the wires so that this one will work or I must buy new switch? (if you are 100% that this one is wrong and not for my model od Vespa)
Hooked
Piaggio LML NV VESPA 150cc
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Republic of Macedonia,Europe
Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:43 am quote
Is this regulator that I have with 5 ports universal and can I use this instead of the old one with 3 ports? Maybe that is the problem or no?
Hooked
Piaggio LML NV VESPA 150cc
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Republic of Macedonia,Europe
Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:49 am quote
KEV,so I should buy this one:

http://www.scooter-center.com/scoweb/pages/productdetail.grid?product=288621641467792&target=productdetail&category1=C&category2=CAT

Instead of this one that I bought:

http://www.scooter-center.com/scoweb/pages/productdetail.grid?product=288621641467792&target=productdetail&category1=C&category2=CAT


If there can be made changes with wiring with the one that I have now,please explain i to me how to do it.

Thank you
Hooked
Piaggio LML NV VESPA 150cc
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Republic of Macedonia,Europe
Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:40 am quote
Ok guys. I just returned home.Went to the VESPA to check if the currency from the regulator is 11-13V and here is what were the results:

- We connected the blue wire from the stator with the new 5 port regulator and we measured this:

If you don't touch the throttle(sorry but I don't know the exact phrase),if we don't give gas,no pulling the throttle,the Voltage is around 10V,but when we pulled the throttle and give more power to the engine,the Voltage reached sometimes 19V (which is way too high I guess)

- And we tested the old original 3 port LML regulator (which by the way the previous mechanic told me that it is dead,not working so that's why I bought this new 5 port one) and IT WAS WORKING AND PRODUCED POWER.
The measurements with this one were:
If you didn't touched the throttle the Voltage was around 8V and when you give more power on the throttle it reached 13V (which I guess this is the right voltage).We think that the previous mechanic thought that the REGULATOR is DEAD,but probably the HORN SWITCH was wrong or dead and that is why it didn't produced regulated power of 11-13V.

So according to KEV's post we were thinking of trying to make some adjustments on the new LIGHT SWITCH so that it can work. We were thinking about DISCONECTING unsoldering the 2 black wires from the horn switch and solder 2 blue wires there(one coming from the stator I think and the other going to the regulator or connecting with the main wires up front somewhere) and to solder another yellow wire which will go directly to the HORN up front I guess.
Well my friend understand more these things about electrics so I just roughly tried to explain here.
I'm posting the pic of the lights switch so that you can understand what I'm trying to explain and adjust.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT? And if you have some other suggestion,please post it here.

THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR HELP SO FAR

Igor

CHANGES.jpg

Hooked
Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Posts: 363
Location: United Kingdom
Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:54 pm quote
Before you modify it, check whether it is a normally open or closed type switch. If it is normally open and makes contact when pushed changing the wires will not make it work for that system.
Also I'm only going by what I see on your pics so check whether it is that type of system before you buy any parts. Check that connecting the yellow/red and blue (in this photo) together gives power at the regulator, if it does see what else then works.
Hooked
Piaggio LML NV VESPA 150cc
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Republic of Macedonia,Europe
Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:36 am quote
Hi Kev

We just connected YELLOW/RED and BLUE wires together and started the engine.THERE IS POWER COMING TO THE REGULATOR EITHER WAY (if they are connected together and if they are not connected)......SO WHAT NOW???? Maybe some other wires are connected the wrong way. Maybe the output and input wires in the regulator should be connected the other way? And what about the GROUND? Maybe something is wrong with that ?
UUUFFFFFFFF this is really frustrating ........
Hooked
bunch "o" bikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Trail, B.C, Canada
Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:07 am quote
try this...

wires1.jpg
I cant spell regulator?

Hooked
Piaggio LML NV VESPA 150cc
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Republic of Macedonia,Europe
Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:04 am quote
Well that is what we did yesterday Kev.We connected those 2 wires and there was power coming to the regulator but it was still HIGHER then 12V if you pull the throttle and give gas. And now even with the old 3 port regulator we measured and it was higher then 12V I think.

The power was higher then 12V even with the yellow/red and blue wires connected and same thing when they were not connected between them. We measured the power coming out of the regulator.

What now? What should we do next ?????

HELP HELP PEOPLE

Wires.jpg

Hooked
bunch "o" bikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Trail, B.C, Canada
Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:19 pm quote
what you need to do is go to the store, buy a case of beer, then you - the bike and the beer come to my place and we'll have you wired up in an hour or two..........while you arange the flight.....

we need to get power in the harnes.

- disconnect the light switch from the harness.

- get that peice of wire and run it from the blue stator wire again (make sure the blue wire is not connected to the harness) connect it to the regulator and test the voltage again. (the regulator should only be connected to ground (black) and the peice of wire.

- do you have arround 12V....if yes then drink some of the beer you bought me.

- now, keep that peice of wire on there and connect the grey/green wire to the other port on the regulator.

now you can see what works and what doesn't. Do not hook up the yellow or black wires from the horn button...forget about the horn for now.
Hooked
Piaggio LML NV VESPA 150cc
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Republic of Macedonia,Europe
Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:27 pm quote
Hi SEAN

I did that yesterday as you told me.And I checked the old original 3 port regulator (it was suppose to be dead,but it is working??? ).
I wrote the results of what we got in my previous post. Here they are again:


"Went to the VESPA to check if the currency from the regulator is 11-13V and here is what were the results:

- We connected the blue wire from the stator with the new 5 port regulator and we measured this:

If you don't touch the throttle(sorry but I don't know the exact phrase),if we don't give gas,no pulling the throttle,the Voltage is around 10V,but when we pulled the throttle and give more power to the engine,the Voltage reached sometimes 19V (which is way too high I guess)

- And we tested the old original 3 port LML regulator (which by the way the previous mechanic told me that it is dead,not working so that's why I bought this new 5 port one) and IT WAS WORKING AND PRODUCED POWER.
The measurements with this one were:
If you didn't touched the throttle the Voltage was around 8V and when you give more power on the throttle it reached 13V (which I guess this is the right voltage).We think that the previous mechanic thought that the REGULATOR is DEAD,but probably the HORN SWITCH was wrong or dead and that is why it didn't produced regulated power of 11-13V. "

What should I do next???
Hooked
Piaggio LML NV VESPA 150cc
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Republic of Macedonia,Europe
Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:48 am quote
So SEAN_S you are saying that we should connect the wire from the stator to the regulator as you said,and then to check everything else on which wire is for what part on the Vespa and leave the HORN (yellow and black) wires for the end after we figure out which wire is for which part?
If you have some other guidance,say it at once if you can,so that we don't waste time doing step-bu step

Thank you again and waiting for your next answers guys
Hooked
bunch "o" bikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 226
Location: Trail, B.C, Canada
Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:07 am quote
that is what I'm saying.
You have a problem with the wiring.
you have to go step by step.

- you know the stator is good (the bike runs and makes power)

- we are going to by-pass an un-known (the horn switch) by going directly from the stator to the regulator.

-when we know the regulator is good, we can plug in the harness (grey/green wire)- the grey *should* send power to the rear break circuit and the green sends power to the flasher relay....from the flasher relay the green wire sends power to the light switch ( here is where it gets foggy because your bike does not have a PX harness or a T5 or an LML..it has a combination of all 3)...so we have to MAKE it work.

-on your light switch, I know the brown and *purple wires go to the headlight (hi beam and lo beam) and the grey or pink gets hooked up to power. here is where you have to play with the connections .



Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:59 pm
This post was not quite
What we were hoping to see
Try again, perhaps?
Hooked
Piaggio LML NV VESPA 150cc
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Republic of Macedonia,Europe
Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:50 pm quote
Thank you VEPIE,but I need more information.I know about that.Thanks anyway.I allready contacted DAVE.
Hooked
Piaggio LML NV VESPA 150cc
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 244
Location: Republic of Macedonia,Europe
Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:58 am quote
I'm still on STATUS QUO with my LML NV electrics.No one has more tips on how to continue checking and finishing wiring of the electrics???
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