Dead Battery, how to open seat on 300 Super?
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Enthusiast
2010 GTS 300 Super
Joined: 23 Jun 2010
Posts: 50
Location: New York
Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:34 am quote
Hey,

So my battery died and that sucks, but what has me stumped is how to open the seat to get at the battery now? I'm hoping there's a simple solution here that I'm just overlooking.

I have a 2010 300 Super.

Thanks for the help. I tried searching but only found a thread for the MP3, about my problem. If I missed an obvious thread, please don't be too cruel.

Also, if recharging it isn't an option (I'm reading that if it's fully discharged, chances are it'll never hold a real charge again?), what type of battery would I need to replace and where would you buy one?

I'm looking at the Battery Tender Junior, but not sure if it's just a tender but will also charge a battery that may be dead?

Last edited by TheCount on Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:37 am; edited 1 time in total
Hooked
2006 LX150 and 2006 GTS
Joined: 18 Dec 2009
Posts: 303
Location: AUG to the PHX!!!!
Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:36 am quote
There should be a lever in the glove box to open the seat. It is to the left of the glove box latch.

Last edited by v_fresh on Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:37 am; edited 1 time in total
Petty Tyrant
GT200 GTS250 GTS300 MP3 500
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 29150
Location: Bay Area, California
Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:37 am quote
Yes there is. Open the glovebox and you'll find the lever near the top, just a little to the left of center. Pull it toward you and the seat will unlatch.
Enthusiast
2010 GTS 300 Super
Joined: 23 Jun 2010
Posts: 50
Location: New York
Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:38 am quote
Thanks for the quick reply, I obviously missed that. Any tips on whether I should even bother trying to salvage it or just buy a new battery?
Hooked
2006 LX150 and 2006 GTS
Joined: 18 Dec 2009
Posts: 303
Location: AUG to the PHX!!!!
Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:40 am quote
You may be able to charge your battery especially since your scooter is still faily new. After charging and it still does not perform, keep it as a core for your replacement.
Ossessionato
2009 GTV 244, 2005 BMW F652 CS, 2001 ET4 150
Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Posts: 2379
Location: Chicago, IL
Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:44 am quote
Opening the seat to get at the battery isn't going to get you very far . . .

There's a black rubber cover between your feet in the center of the floorboard--remove the 4 screws securing that cover and ye shall find the battery.
Enthusiast
2010 GTS 300 Super
Joined: 23 Jun 2010
Posts: 50
Location: New York
Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:45 am quote
stinkyjones wrote:
Opening the seat to get at the battery isn't going to get you very far . . .

There's a black rubber cover between your feet in the center of the floorboard--remove the 4 screws securing that cover and ye shall find the battery.
Oh yeah, I totally knew that...
Hooked
Blue ET4 124
Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Posts: 319
Location: London
Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:57 am quote
Scooter batteries like car batteries are not designed to be discharged below 12v or they wont recover to full capacity (a little under 13V) I hope this helps.
Enthusiast
gts 300
Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 63
Location: Norwich UK
Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:59 am quote
I cant believe your is battery is duff already since your scoot is a 2010 reg
Molto Verboso
Piaggio BV250
Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 1973
Location: Historic Route 66 in Oklahoma
Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:37 pm quote
The battery in our BV250 kept going dead. I finally removed it and saw that all but one of the cells was below the fill line for the water level. After filling with distilled water and charging the battery, it has been fine. I don't think the dealer checked the battery fluid level before selling us the brand new scooter. There have been two other times that someone has complained of the same battery problem and it turned out that both batteries were also low on fluid.
All of this surprised me because I thought just about everything these days uses sealed batteries.
Ossessionato
Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Posts: 3727
Location: Venice Beach, CA
Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:48 pm quote
TheCount wrote:
Thanks for the quick reply, I obviously missed that. Any tips on whether I should even bother trying to salvage it or just buy a new battery?
If your warranty is still valid, the battery should be covered by that.
The shop may also check to see that your bike's charging system is working correctly.
Hooked
2009 Vespa GTS-250
Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 161
Location: Galveston, TX
Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:56 pm quote
Any tips on whether I should even bother trying to salvage it or just buy a new battery?" -- TheCount


Put a battery desulfator on it while it's being charged. It may come back just fine (especially if it's sulfated which usually happens when a battery has been sitting discharged too long a time).

I use the "Nanopulser" (made in Japan) but put alligator clips on the leads so I can move it around to service several 12v batteries (besides on my car's battery when I'm using the car). In short, I made it "portable" so I don't have to buy one ($99) for every 12v battery I own (I have 4 so $99x4 = not necessary). If a battery is up to 4 or so years old, it has a good chance of being revived. Of course, if a battery has a bad cell, then it IS shot and a desulfator wo't help.

So before you assume the battery is shot, get online and check out the "battery desulfator" concept...many batteries suffering from sulfation are not really dead/trashed and can be revived using a desulfator. Even if you DO get another battery, you can still try to revive the "shot" battery and it can be kept as a spare or to power something else, like a portable battery pack (like my Sears 1150 Power Pack) for jumping a car, etc..

No need to dispose of stuff you don't have to...keeps it out of the landfill before it's time.

Good luck..
Moderaptor
2xGP800, Fuoco, The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug), 'Olive' (GT200) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 31765
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:59 pm quote
Optimate 4 will do all the above.
Hooked
2009 Vespa GTS-250
Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 161
Location: Galveston, TX
Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:54 pm quote
I don't think all the desulfators out there use the same power/frequency for their sonic pulses, so some may be kind of hard on the lead plates (one reason I went with the "Nanopulser") and/or cause lead sulfate crystals to collect on the bottom of the battery rather than decomposing said crystals back into solution.

I'm not recommending the Nanopulser in particular, just saying the OP should research that point along with desulfators in general.

The Optimate 4 is good because it charges AND desulfates at the same time since it's one device (although I don't know its power/sonic-pulse rate/frequency). I already had a charger so I bought a desulfator separately. The downside of that is I can't leave the Nanopulser ALONE on a battery that is not used often (so it is recharged frequently) or it will (eventually) run the battery down. It's supposed to shut itself off if the battery gets too low (11.6v) but I don't want the battery to get down that far as 11.6v is WAY too low since 11.6v = DISCHARGED...so the auto-shutoff feature seems useless and set TOO low. I don't like ANY of my 12v batteries to go below 50% charged, which means I don't want them to go below 12.2v...so I don't get the 11.6v "shutoff feature" at all. Doesn't make any sense.

Consequently, I do not use the Nanopulser on a battery without also charging it at the same time.

So, the only time I hook my Nanopulser up to a battery -- like my car -- is when I use it a lot or, when I ALSO have my Yuasa SmartShot charger also hooked up...that way there is no danger of the desulfator draining the battery.

Problem is, I only take my car out MAYBE once a week (and my Vespa much less), so I do not leave the Nano pulser hooked up to it hence the alligator clips, as I said. When I DO take the car out, I just stick the Nanopulser to its velcro pad I left there next to the battery, hook up the alligator clips and close the hood. As I drive it's working, but the battery is also being charged. Although the Nanopulser uses only 40mA of power, left on a battery that isn't being charged/used often is something I care not to do.

Right now the Nanopulser is in my apartment so I can rotate it amongst my large solar backup power 12v deep-cycle AGM battery, smaller 12v AGM battery I use (also for emergencies) with small DC-to-AC inverters, and finally my Sears 1150 PowerPack with its 12v AGM battery...but as I said, ONLY when my Yuasa charger is also hooked up so charging and desulfating is going on simutaneously.

Yes, it's more of a hassle than the Optimate 4 -- which charges and desulfates at the same time -- but I can live with it since I think the Nanopulser is a top-drawer (although pricey) product -- except for the low "shutoff" voltage. The Optimate 4 doesn't have that problem as it's also a charger, so no low-battery shutoff is necessary.

Whatever, IMO, now that battery chargers are available with built-in desulfators, THAT is the product to get rather than ONLY a charger. The Optimate 4 seems to be a great choice.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
BV 350, Aprilia SC 300, LX150ie, Buddy 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 6187
Location: Oregon City, OR
Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:27 pm quote
Route 66 Lawdog wrote:
The battery in our BV250 kept going dead. I finally removed it and saw that all but one of the cells was below the fill line for the water level. After filling with distilled water and charging the battery, it has been fine.
Hmm. I thought the newer Piaggios and Vespas all came with AGM (glass mat) batteries which are sealed. If your scoot has a battery which requires adding water to the cells, I suggest you upgrade to an AGM when the time comes to replace yours.
Banned
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
Posts: 2
Location: uk (he's a liar, it's NZ)
Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:44 pm quote
not to be funny but have you checked your kill switch
I took a bike half apart once when I bumped mine by accident figuring something serious was wrong. it gets me everytime
Hooked
2009 Vespa GTS-250
Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 161
Location: Galveston, TX
Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:22 am quote
"...I suggest you upgrade to an AGM when the time comes to replace yours." -- Dooglas

Definiftely!

Re: scooters, motorcycles or cars, since AGM batteries have become available, "wet" batteries are an obsolete thing of the past for most applications -- too many shortcomings. Good riddance.

Maybe they are still viable for large solar-panel power grids for one's home but for vehicles, move on to AGM batteries at the first opportunity to do so.

Use the distilled water for your coffee/espresso-maker or clothes steamer instead (they will never build up any mineral scale inside and remain like new). I do. And, it's even great for your Absinthe!
Molto Verboso
Piaggio BV250
Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 1973
Location: Historic Route 66 in Oklahoma
Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:26 pm quote
Dooglas wrote:
Route 66 Lawdog wrote:
The battery in our BV250 kept going dead. I finally removed it and saw that all but one of the cells was below the fill line for the water level. After filling with distilled water and charging the battery, it has been fine.
Hmm. I thought the newer Piaggios and Vespas all came with AGM (glass mat) batteries which are sealed. If your scoot has a battery which requires adding water to the cells, I suggest you upgrade to an AGM when the time comes to replace yours.
I'll do that. Thanks!
Enthusiast
GTV 300, K1300S, F4 1000
Joined: 30 Aug 2010
Posts: 63
Location: London
Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:13 pm quote
cloudcroft wrote:
"...I suggest you upgrade to an AGM when the time comes to replace yours." -- Dooglas

Definiftely!

Re: scooters, motorcycles or cars, since AGM batteries have become available, "wet" batteries are an obsolete thing of the past for most applications -- too many shortcomings. Good riddance.

Maybe they are still viable for large solar-panel power grids for one's home but for vehicles, move on to AGM batteries at the first opportunity to do so.

Use the distilled water for your coffee/espresso-maker or clothes steamer instead (they will never build up any mineral scale inside and remain like new). I do. And, it's even great for your Absinthe!
+1

AGM is def. the way to go. Designed so that they can be left standing for long periods without trickle charging. One fill of distilled water at the start of its life (either in factory or shop/garage when its taken off the shelf) will last the entire lifetime of the battery. They also don't leak if left at a weird angle as the water is held in suspension in the glass matting between the plates.
Member
2008 MP3/250 - Moto Bruno
Joined: 09 Oct 2010
Posts: 38
Location: Phoenix :: USA
Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:18 pm quote
My new-to-me, pre-owned LX150 arrived to me recently from the seller with a battery that seems too low, lights come on, but won't crank engine over. Is the Optimate a good interim step for me to try before having the scoot towed/transported to dealer for a new battery.

It seems like it would perhaps be a possible fix for the battery and a worthwhile investment for what will be a garage-kept daily commuter. Thanks.
--
Doug
Moderaptor
2xGP800, Fuoco, The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug), 'Olive' (GT200) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 31765
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:37 pm quote
An Optimate can really help even really-going-south batteries, but if in doubt with a new-to-you scoot get a new battery first, and talk someone into giving you the Optimate for Christmas.

You don't have to have the scoot taken to a dealer to have a new battery fitted - just buy one locally or on-line and fit it yourself, no biggie to do, really.
Member
2008 MP3/250 - Moto Bruno
Joined: 09 Oct 2010
Posts: 38
Location: Phoenix :: USA
Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:48 pm quote
jimc wrote:
An Optimate can really help even really-going-south batteries, but if in doubt with a new-to-you scoot get a new battery first, and talk someone into giving you the Optimate for Christmas.

You don't have to have the scoot taken to a dealer to have a new battery fitted - just buy one locally or on-line and fit it yourself, no biggie to do, really.
Thanks for the tips JimC. That's an approach that I can live with and sounds more palatable than sending to dealer for what should be a fairly easy switch out with a few screws and bolts.
Ossessionato
2009 GTV 244, 2005 BMW F652 CS, 2001 ET4 150
Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Posts: 2379
Location: Chicago, IL
Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:46 pm quote
UrbanoVayspah wrote:
Thanks for the tips JimC. That's an approach that I can live with and sounds more palatable than sending to dealer for what should be a fairly easy switch out with a few screws and bolts.
Motoworks carries the Yuasa that fits in your LX. If you call Milan in the service dept ahead of time, they'll get it prepped for you so its ready to go when you pick it up.
Member
2008 MP3/250 - Moto Bruno
Joined: 09 Oct 2010
Posts: 38
Location: Phoenix :: USA
Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:55 pm quote
stinkyjones wrote:
UrbanoVayspah wrote:
Thanks for the tips JimC. That's an approach that I can live with and sounds more palatable than sending to dealer for what should be a fairly easy switch out with a few screws and bolts.
Motoworks carries the Yuasa that fits in your LX. If you call Milan in the service dept ahead of time, they'll get it prepped for you so its ready to go when you pick it up.
That's great Stinky, thanks for the tip. While I'm excited about getting things going with my new wheels, this is uncharted territory for me, not a wrencher per se, but want to get to know my Vepsa and handle basic issues well. Thanks.
Ossessionato
2009 GTV 244, 2005 BMW F652 CS, 2001 ET4 150
Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Posts: 2379
Location: Chicago, IL
Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:00 pm quote
UrbanoVayspah wrote:
That's great Stinky, thanks for the tip. While I'm excited about getting things going with my new wheels, this is uncharted territory for me, not a wrencher per se, but want to get to know my Vepsa and handle basic issues well. Thanks.
No problem.

Battery is under the seat.

Do yourself a favor and pick up a Battery Tender Junior off of Amazon (should run $24). It comes with a pig tail that you can hard wire to the battery. Keep that thing topped off with the BTJ and it will last many years.
Hooked
2009 Vespa GTS-250
Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 161
Location: Galveston, TX
Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:31 pm quote
deleted
Enthusiast
2010 GTS 300 Super
Joined: 23 Jun 2010
Posts: 50
Location: New York
Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:18 am quote
jimc wrote:
An Optimate can really help even really-going-south batteries, but if in doubt with a new-to-you scoot get a new battery first, and talk someone into giving you the Optimate for Christmas.

You don't have to have the scoot taken to a dealer to have a new battery fitted - just buy one locally or on-line and fit it yourself, no biggie to do, really.
Thanks, I think that's the plan for now. I had already ordered the Battery Tender Jr and the Battery was too discharged for it to do any good, so I'm going to return it and buy a new battery.

Only problem I have now is that I see all this stuff for AGM batteries but how do I know what battery will fit my 300?

Links would be greatly appreciated, not that I want you guys to do the work, but I don't even know what to look for really and ordering only to have it turn out to be the wrong size would be a real drag since the scoot's already been out of commission for so long.

Thanks.
Hooked
2009 Vespa GTS-250
Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 161
Location: Galveston, TX
Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:21 am quote
First, you're welcome.

Second, you returned the Battery Tender? Why? Keep it!

As for replacement batteries, all you need do to search for a new battery is know two things (besides wanting a 12v AGM "dry" no-maintenance type battery, of course):

1. Its physical dimensions (so it will FIT into the battery compartment).

2. Its Amp-hour (Ah) rating. That's it.

So, take your current OEM battery out and MEASURE it: L x W x H...and keep that info somewhere safe (write it in your Owner's Manual)...becasue once your original battery is gone, you no longer have it to measure it! So do that now. Note any extra room you might have if there IS any, JUST IN CASE the new battery is slightly longer, wider or taller than the original so you can expect it will still fit anyway. ALSO write down what its power capacity is (Ah rating).

THEN, go online (Google for example) and look for "motorcycle batteries" (which may return more hits than "scooter" batteries): First look for the same Ah rating, then look for the battery's product description info for its physical size...to BE SURE it will fit. Sometimes those 12v AGM batteries they use in medical devices/UPS power-supplies (they pretty much ALL are AGM batteries) also will work, but shop for "motorcycle batteries" first.

You can also take your battery down to a local store like this one http://www.batteriesplus.com/ and they can see it in-person and tell you if they have a match (they ALSO will try to match it (1) physical-size-wise and (2) Ah rating-wise). Or get in contact with them online.

You should get a battery AT LEAST the same Ah rating as the orginal, but if you can get one that has a slightly HIGHER Ah rating (but it also FITS), then that is always better.

Good luck...

Last edited by cloudcroft on Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:36 am; edited 1 time in total
Moderaptor
2xGP800, Fuoco, The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug), 'Olive' (GT200) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 31765
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:35 am quote
GTS Battery Options
Hooked
GTS 300 Super
Joined: 09 Jun 2010
Posts: 342
Location: San Francisco, California
Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:53 am quote
Count, I've got a Super, also, and I had no idea where the damn battery was when I went looking for it. I too thought it was under the seat, but that clearly wasn't the case.
Hooked
Joined: 08 Apr 2010
Posts: 197
Location: UK
Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:10 am quote
jimc wrote:
Optimate 4 will do all the above.
+1 Top kit!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX 150
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 7138
Location: New Hampshire
Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:10 am quote
cloudcroft wrote:
First, you're welcome.

Second, you returned the Battery Tender? Why? Keep it!

As for replacement batteries, all you need do to search for a new battery is know two things (besides wanting a 12v AGM "dry" no-maintenance type battery, of course):

1. Its physical dimensions (so it will FIT into the battery compartment).

2. Its Amp-hour (Ah) rating. That's it.

So, take your current OEM battery out and MEASURE it: L x W x H...and keep that info somewhere safe (write it in your Owner's Manual)...becasue once your original battery is gone, you no longer have it to measure it! So do that now. Note any extra room you might have if there IS any, JUST IN CASE the new battery is slightly longer, wider or taller than the original so you can expect it will still fit anyway. ALSO write down what its power capacity is (Ah rating).

THEN, go online (Google for example) and look for "motorcycle batteries" (which may return more hits than "scooter" batteries): First look for the same Ah rating, then look for the battery's product description info for its physical size...to BE SURE it will fit. Sometimes those 12v AGM batteries they use in medical devices/UPS power-supplies (they pretty much ALL are AGM batteries) also will work, but shop for "motorcycle batteries" first.

You can also take your battery down to a local store like this one http://www.batteriesplus.com/ and they can see it in-person and tell you if they have a match (they ALSO will try to match it (1) physical-size-wise and (2) Ah rating-wise). Or get in contact with them online.

You should get a battery AT LEAST the same Ah rating as the orginal, but if you can get one that has a slightly HIGHER Ah rating (but it also FITS), then that is always better.

Good luck...
Excellent advice! The only thing I would add is to take note of the terminal locations. I recall that some models had wiring that was too short and some replacement batteries wouldn't fit because the poles were on opposite ends. Someone's scooter caught fire because the wiring was spliced to accommodate the wrong battery.
Hooked
2009 Vespa GTS-250
Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 161
Location: Galveston, TX
Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:34 am quote
NightWing,

You are correct...THAT should be noted too. Although I've heard of some problems with terminal orientation on batteries, I've never encountered that situation myself.

Yes, I recall that post of the fire, too, but it seems the splicing was not correctly done (it's not hard to do)...the guage of wire used may have been wrong, too. Some people do stuff they shouldn't because they don't know enough.

On my Vespa, even if it wasn't necessary, I have wrapped the red battery wire with that plastic spiral-wire-wrap ("armor") stuff (like you can get at Radio Shack), to keep it from abraiding against anything, ESPECIALLY the point where it passes through to the rear of the scooter. Also, I do not like Vespa's design where the postitive and negative wires bypass each other and are touching...not good, I'd rather them routed away from each other (coming to the battery from opposite directions so they never touch). The "armor" also puts more "insulation" between the red and black wires even if they do rub against each other!

I just like to head-off any potential trouble...
Enthusiast
2010 GTS 300 Super
Joined: 23 Jun 2010
Posts: 50
Location: New York
Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:19 am quote
cloudcroft wrote:
First, you're welcome.

Second, you returned the Battery Tender? Why? Keep it!
I'm going to replace it with the Optimate 4

Thanks for the tips everyone, I'm going to pick a replacement up today. Finally!
Hooked
2009 Vespa GTS-250
Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 161
Location: Galveston, TX
Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:58 am quote
What I meant was it's always good to have more than one charger on hand -- they all don't have to include desulfator circuitry (as long as ONE of them does). So, since you already had it, you could have kept the Battery Tender (a good product, since batteries usually just need charging, not desulfating) and in addition also get an Optimate 4.

Whatever, at least you're an "expert" on this subject now...pass the knowledge along!

Good luck...
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