Modern Vespa

Anyone try one of these batteries yet?

http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/lithium-iron-batteries/

I haven't tried them, but I'm intrigued. I wonder if they've managed to solve the charging issues -- Lithium Ion batteries need careful monitoring while taking a charge to avoid overheating them.

Very interesting, though...

Lithium Iron?

You know, I didn't even catch the extra R.

It's apparently a legit technology, though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery

The big difference between the battery in that thread vs the one ExonicJay is referring to here is that this one is actually intended for a PowerSports application.

Thanks, I saw that....

Reading about the Lithium Iron, the seller writes,
"We recommend using these batteries in temperatures above 0 degrees Celsius." Higher cold cranking amps, just not when it's cold?

Kind of ends the usefulness in MN!

Possibly. Depends on whether "use" means "being used in conditions below 0C" or "exposed to conditions below 0C".

Unfortunately below 32F could be/is a nice spring or fall morning!

I couldn't resist buying one.
It should be here late next week.
I too will be interested in how the charging works.
Other lithium batteries requires balanced cell charging techniques.
We shall see.

Excellent. I'll be eager to hear your experience.

Here's a cheap alternative:

http://www.burnsmoto.com/braille-battery-lithium-ml9c.php

That's in Pesos??? Right.
About $76 Bucks in US Dollars.
That is cheap!!!!

I received the Shorai lithium battery last week


Sorry about the out of focus picture.
See the User Guide pdf for better picture of battery.

Delivery was free and took the normal 1 week from the West Coats to Pittsburgh via UPS Ground.
The battery is pretty impressive so far.
The size and weight is unbelievable.
The Picture below shows the lithium battery beside the Wal-Mart lead acid battery removed from my ET4.



The battery comes nicely packaged and includes the following.
LFX14A2-BS12 Battery
Spare set of terminal screws (longer screws)
5 Shorai decals (3 sizes)
Various sheets of high density foam for fitting of smaller battery into battery box.
user guide (http://www.shoraipower.com/downloads/shoraiLfxInstallGuide.pdf)
Limited 2 year warranty.

User guide said:
a normal battery charger (under 14.4 vdc peak) works.
Don't use anti-sulfation type of chargers.
Store in frig for longer shelf life
Battery has a 5 pin connector for use with a balanced charger.
A balanced charger from Shorai isn't available until 2/2011
I called and it will cost $60 to $70.

I gutted my old battery and plan to install the Shorai battery inside of it.



I'll post more details as soon as the installation is complete.

If this battery works out, I think I will do the same to my GTS.
Getting the battery in and out of the GTS is a finger bashing event.
The smaller and lighter lithium battery should make it much easier.

I kind of like the downloadable Calendar Girls too.
http://www.shoraipower.com/t-shorai-models.aspx

I think I am more curious about the 'useless machine' tool box in the background of your last picture...

I have a few of those, but don't bother putting them in their own cases...!

Desi B.

I made this Useless Machine to remind me of what my Government mostly does for me.
Click on the link below and you will see why it is so useless.

http://s26.photobucket.com/albums/c127/ExonicJay/?action=view&current=AlGoreSwitch.mp4[/list]

Ha ha. Funny shit.

Any update?

Been away for a while and returning home tomorrow.
I'll post an update in a few days.
It's looking good so far.

They were demoing this battery at the San Mateo Motorcycle Show last November. In fact, one of the calender girls herself was the one giving the spiel about it. So I confess I wasn't totally paying attention to what she was saying but my impression was that it is 100% drop-in compatible, including charging, etc.

-Dan

My interest in a different battery for my ET4-150 was sparked by jkbenn02's post
http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic67182? on using a lithium battery in His scooter.

Since my ET4 battery had expired, I was motivated to try jkbenn02's lithium battery solution.
So, I gutted my old battery for a place to hold the much smaller lithium battery pack.




But then I saw the Shorai Lithium Iron Phosphate battery advertised on Battery Stuff's website.
I purchased the Shorai LFX14A2-BS12
http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/lithium-iron-batteries/

I put the Shorai battery into my gutted battery box to keep the scoot's battery wiring the same.
Thus making returning to a lead acid battery easier if needed later.



So far so good.
The ET4 starts better than ever and seems to charge the battery just fine.

My real test is to leave the ET4 sit through out the winter and see if the Lithium battery will hold a charge.
My goal is to have longer battery life that won't go flat if left unattended for a few months without a tender.

The lithium battery has been installed for about 3 weeks and I have started the scooter about 4 times so far.
The scoot is in a semi heated garage that is about 40 to 50 deg F during the winter.

These batteries were also recommended to me from a "heated gear" company, Powerlet at the Chicago International Motorcycle show.

I was told that I could not operate the 100 watt heated jacket at full capacity because of my small scooter battery (Ytx12bs). They recommened the 60 watt heated vest instead.

But they recommended that we purchase one of these batteries also.

They also told me my 2006 battery was going to go dead soon, and all I was doing now was squeezing the electrolytes outta it, by adding more distilled water.

They had nothing but good to say about the Shorai Lithium Iron Phosphate battery. I did not know about the "cold" issue so that could be a problem here in Chicago. It gets very cold at time.

Thanks for the great installation photos ExonicJay. This gives us some great ideas.

I've read on other forums that the cold doesn't affect this latest generation of LiFePO4 batteries so much. The cell makers have been playing with the chemistry to eliminate the issue.

Best to try it and see if it works throughout the seasons, although it doesn't get THAT cold here in winter here by comparison.

One of the selling points of the Shorai (and A123's for that matter) is the reduced size and WEIGHT, so I'm puzzled why you have gone to so much exquisite trouble to 'wrap' it up in the old battery casing.

Surely you can just drop it in, fit some foam padding and attach the leads to the terminals and go. Or am I missing something here.

No offence it looks like a nice job you have done there, buy WHY????

Excellent. Thanks for the update, Jay.

As I said in my last post, I originally was going to use the lithium battery pack that was posted by jkbenn02's post http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic67182?


That battery pack looked like it needed some kind of enclosure and required re-terminated the battery cables.

I had already gutted the battery case before I found out about the Shorai Lithium Iron Phosphate battery.
So, since the gutted battery case was available I went ahead and used it.

It did simplified the installation since I didn't have to re-terminate the scoot's battery cables and required
less padding for the much smaller Shorai battery.

I also wanted a neat installation that was easy to convert back to a lead acid battery if desired.

BTW I needed some lead for making some exquisite fishing line jig sinkers.
lead bars are running about $3.00/lb with shipping (25lbs min order)
You do the math...


It all worked for me.

I think I may give the Shorai a try next time I need a new battery.

The unused space in the well might be a handy spot to put a tool roll.

Yes, the lithium battery will yield at least enough extra room for a tool pack but probably not enough for a ukulele.

Sure would like having one of throes tenor ukes you make.
It would fit perfectly in my sidecar.

I would love to try it..
would a Ctek charger be ok with it?

Furry snuff my friend, looks like a win, win situation. I think I'll give the Shorai a go when my OEM battery gives up.

Should be fine, just don't use 14.7V or desulphation mode.

If you feel the need, Shorai are releasing a 5-pin proprietary charger soon.

ExonicJay,

Any idea on the weight savings between your old and new batteries? Just curious.Thanks for the pioneering work.

I purchased the LFX14L2-BS12 battery that weighs in at 1.6 lbs.
My old lead acid battery weighed about 8 lbs.

So, the new lithium iron battery is about 1/5 the weight of my old lead acid battery.

The Shorai battery is working well in my ET4.
Starting the ET4 is way quicker with the Shorai battery.
Starts with about a 1 second push of the starter button.
I did add an additional mod to the battery system.
I wanted to totally disconnect the battery from the scooter during long non-riding periods.
Since the Shorai battery is much smaller I had room to add a Master Disconnect Switch to the old gutted battery case that houses the Shorai battery.

Found a 12v 50 amp rated switch at Radio Shack that fit nicely.
However, I did shorten the switch's bat handle length about 1/2".

I still have room in the old battery box for a current shunt for an ammeter.
Looking for a cool Voltmeter/Ammeter combo.
Hoping for an analog type meter.
More later on the ammeter.

ET4 Master Switch

Battery cover removed to expose Master Switch

Mounting of Master Switch on top of old battery box

Doubt if you'll find a combo voltmeter/ammeter in an analog gauge, but here are a bunch of analog meters from a discount marine supplier that I have successfully dealt with in the past:
http://search.defender.com/search.aspx?expression=voltmeter+ammeter&x=0&y=0

Not much room there for analog gauges, though.

Have found a few volt/ammeter combo's like this one that is used on airplanes.
http://www.dfwairparts.com/Instruments/Engine-Instruments/2-in-1-Volts-Amps-Voltmeter-Ammeter-Indicator-92267.html#googlebase

However, I would have to do some re-scaling of the volt meter and/or the current shunt.

I am planning to mount the V/A meter on the windshield post or on the ET4 knee pad.

I have also found this Meter that I really like from Lascar.
9 Segment LCD Meter
1V Full Scale Reading
No Calibration Required
Wire Connections
Round Hole Mounting






For more details click below:
http://www.lascarelectronics.com/temperaturedatalogger.php?datalogger=111

You are violating the laws of physics by destroying matter. Please stop.

Seriously, the shit they tell people.

I had a professor of Chemistry/Material Engineering that told great stories about the shit the mechanics used to tell her.

"Let's start this conversation over, you will address me as Doktor Silberburg." ( I think she actually said "Frau Doktor" but it has been a few years)

Things are a bit more formal in Germany I suppose...

(Batteries die for two reasons:

1. There is a short across plates. A plate has shifted, or there is a mineral bridge causing the short.
2. Sufficient oxidation is preventing ion exchange. Usually by contamination, hence the use of distilled water.
)

After more exploring, I found a Lascar back lighted LCD meter
that would work for a voltage and ammeter analog looking meter.

SP 5-1710-BL
17 Segment Backlit LCD
0-1V and -1V-0-1V d.c. Ranges
5 to 12Vdc Supply Voltage
Screw Terminal Connection
Splashproof

Details:
http://www.lascarelectronics.com/temperaturedatalogger.php?datalogger=159

But look at this baby.
I could display all kinds of things I have always wanted to monitor.
Like Volts, Amps, Engine Temps, Fuel Flow and more on one 2.4" display.

Panel Pilot

Details:
http://www.panelpilot.com/
Be sure to look at the demo and configuration tab.

The Shorai Battery charger is now available for about 80 bucks.
I have measured each cell in my new Shoral Lithium LFX14A2-BS12 I installed in my 2002 ET4.
I using the 5 pin connecter to measure cell voltages.
Found all cell voltages within 2% or less of each other.
However, I ordered the charger anyway.
I am going to make this the last battery I ever buy for my ET4.
Starting is still very very strong.
Engine seems to run better too.
These Shoral Lithium Iron Battery is kicking butt so far.


Full detals
https://www.shoraipower.com/p-184-sho-bms01.aspx

Shorai Lithium Iron Phosphate battery update.

The battery has been in service for about 6 months.
It's working great!
The battery has made my 2002 ET4-150 a different machine.
Starting is very robust and I swear the ET4-150 has more power and runs smoother.