Anyone try one of these batteries yet?
http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/lithium-iron-batteries/
Shorai Lithium 12 Volt Battery |
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Addicted
![]() ![]() ET4-150 GTS250ie PX200 with Cozy Sidecar
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 781 Location: Pittsburgh, PA |
![]() Anyone try one of these batteries yet?
http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/lithium-iron-batteries/ |
Petty Tyrant
![]() ![]() GTS250 GTS300 MP3 500
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 29646 Location: Bay Area, California |
![]() I haven't tried them, but I'm intrigued. I wonder if they've managed to solve the charging issues -- Lithium Ion batteries need careful monitoring while taking a charge to avoid overheating them.
Very interesting, though... |
Petty Tyrant
![]() ![]() GTS250 GTS300 MP3 500
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 29646 Location: Bay Area, California |
![]() Timbit wrote: Lithium Iron? It's apparently a legit technology, though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery |
Petty Tyrant
![]() ![]() GTS250 GTS300 MP3 500
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 29646 Location: Bay Area, California |
![]() louisq wrote: http://modernvespa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=945021 |
![]() Thanks, I saw that....
Reading about the Lithium Iron, the seller writes, "We recommend using these batteries in temperatures above 0 degrees Celsius." Higher cold cranking amps, just not when it's cold? ![]() Kind of ends the usefulness in MN! |
Petty Tyrant
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Posts: 29646 Location: Bay Area, California |
![]() louisq wrote: Kind of ends the usefulness in MN! |
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![]() jess wrote: I haven't tried them, but I'm intrigued. I wonder if they've managed to solve the charging issues -- Lithium Ion batteries need careful monitoring while taking a charge to avoid overheating them. Very interesting, though... It should be here late next week. I too will be interested in how the charging works. Other lithium batteries requires balanced cell charging techniques. We shall see. |
Petty Tyrant
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Posts: 29646 Location: Bay Area, California |
![]() ExonicJay wrote: jess wrote: I haven't tried them, but I'm intrigued. I wonder if they've managed to solve the charging issues -- Lithium Ion batteries need careful monitoring while taking a charge to avoid overheating them. Very interesting, though... It should be here late next week. I too will be interested in how the charging works. Other lithium batteries requires balanced cell charging techniques. We shall see. |
Ossessionato
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Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Posts: 2379 Location: Chicago, IL |
Addicted
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![]() stinkyjones wrote: About $76 Bucks in US Dollars. That is cheap!!!! |
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![]() ![]() ET4-150 GTS250ie PX200 with Cozy Sidecar
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 781 Location: Pittsburgh, PA |
![]() I received the Shorai lithium battery last week
![]() Sorry about the out of focus picture. See the User Guide pdf for better picture of battery. Delivery was free and took the normal 1 week from the West Coats to Pittsburgh via UPS Ground. The battery is pretty impressive so far. The size and weight is unbelievable. The Picture below shows the lithium battery beside the Wal-Mart lead acid battery removed from my ET4. ![]() The battery comes nicely packaged and includes the following. LFX14A2-BS12 Battery Spare set of terminal screws (longer screws) 5 Shorai decals (3 sizes) Various sheets of high density foam for fitting of smaller battery into battery box. user guide (http://www.shoraipower.com/downloads/shoraiLfxInstallGuide.pdf) Limited 2 year warranty. User guide said: a normal battery charger (under 14.4 vdc peak) works. Don't use anti-sulfation type of chargers. Store in frig for longer shelf life Battery has a 5 pin connector for use with a balanced charger. A balanced charger from Shorai isn't available until 2/2011 I called and it will cost $60 to $70. I gutted my old battery and plan to install the Shorai battery inside of it. ![]() I'll post more details as soon as the installation is complete. If this battery works out, I think I will do the same to my GTS. Getting the battery in and out of the GTS is a finger bashing event. The smaller and lighter lithium battery should make it much easier. I kind of like the downloadable Calendar Girls too. http://www.shoraipower.com/t-shorai-models.aspx |
Ossessionato
![]() ![]() Temporarily Scooterless... :(
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 2117 Location: Albuquerque, NM |
![]() I think I am more curious about the 'useless machine' tool box in the background of your last picture...
I have a few of those, but don't bother putting them in their own cases...! ![]() Desi B. |
Addicted
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Posts: 781 Location: Pittsburgh, PA |
![]() primordialdancer wrote: I think I am more curious about the 'useless machine' tool box in the background of your last picture... I have a few of those, but don't bother putting them in their own cases...! ![]() Desi B. Click on the link below and you will see why it is so useless. http://s26.photobucket.com/albums/c127/ExonicJay/?action=view¤t=AlGoreSwitch.mp4[/list] |
Ossessionato
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Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Posts: 2379 Location: Chicago, IL |
Petty Tyrant
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Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 29646 Location: Bay Area, California |
Addicted
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![]() Been away for a while and returning home tomorrow.
I'll post an update in a few days. It's looking good so far. |
Ossessionato
![]() ![]() Vintage Red 2007 GTS, Black Vespa LX150, 2007 Goodwood Green Triumph Bonneville!
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 2145 Location: Palo Alto, CA ![]() |
![]() They were demoing this battery at the San Mateo Motorcycle Show last November. In fact, one of the calender girls herself was the one giving the spiel about it. So I confess I wasn't totally paying attention to what she was saying
![]() -Dan |
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![]() Lithium Iron Phosphate Powersports Batteries Continued
My interest in a different battery for my ET4-150 was sparked by jkbenn02's post
http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic67182? on using a lithium battery in His scooter. Since my ET4 battery had expired, I was motivated to try jkbenn02's lithium battery solution. So, I gutted my old battery for a place to hold the much smaller lithium battery pack. ![]() But then I saw the Shorai Lithium Iron Phosphate battery advertised on Battery Stuff's website. I purchased the Shorai LFX14A2-BS12 http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/lithium-iron-batteries/ I put the Shorai battery into my gutted battery box to keep the scoot's battery wiring the same. Thus making returning to a lead acid battery easier if needed later. ![]() So far so good. The ET4 starts better than ever and seems to charge the battery just fine. My real test is to leave the ET4 sit through out the winter and see if the Lithium battery will hold a charge. My goal is to have longer battery life that won't go flat if left unattended for a few months without a tender. The lithium battery has been installed for about 3 weeks and I have started the scooter about 4 times so far. The scoot is in a semi heated garage that is about 40 to 50 deg F during the winter.
Positive
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Ossessionato
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Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Posts: 4950 Location: Naperville, Illinois |
![]() These batteries were also recommended to me from a "heated gear" company, Powerlet at the Chicago International Motorcycle show.
I was told that I could not operate the 100 watt heated jacket at full capacity because of my small scooter battery (Ytx12bs). They recommened the 60 watt heated vest instead. But they recommended that we purchase one of these batteries also. They also told me my 2006 battery was going to go dead soon, and all I was doing now was squeezing the electrolytes outta it, by adding more distilled water. They had nothing but good to say about the Shorai Lithium Iron Phosphate battery. I did not know about the "cold" issue so that could be a problem here in Chicago. It gets very cold at time. Thanks for the great installation photos ExonicJay. This gives us some great ideas. |
![]() I've read on other forums that the cold doesn't affect this latest generation of LiFePO4 batteries so much. The cell makers have been playing with the chemistry to eliminate the issue.
Best to try it and see if it works throughout the seasons, although it doesn't get THAT cold here in winter here by comparison. |
![]() Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Powersports Batteries Continued
ExonicJay wrote: So, I gutted my old battery for a place to hold the much smaller lithium battery pack. Surely you can just drop it in, fit some foam padding and attach the leads to the terminals and go. Or am I missing something here. No offence it looks like a nice job you have done there, buy WHY???? |
Petty Tyrant
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![]() Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Powersports Batteries Continued
simcity wrote: ExonicJay wrote: So, I gutted my old battery for a place to hold the much smaller lithium battery pack. Surely you can just drop it in, fit some foam padding and attach the leads to the terminals and go. Or am I missing something here. No offence it looks like a nice job you have done there, buy WHY???? ![]() That battery pack looked like it needed some kind of enclosure and required re-terminated the battery cables. I had already gutted the battery case before I found out about the Shorai Lithium Iron Phosphate battery. So, since the gutted battery case was available I went ahead and used it. It did simplified the installation since I didn't have to re-terminate the scoot's battery cables and required less padding for the much smaller Shorai battery. I also wanted a neat installation that was easy to convert back to a lead acid battery if desired. BTW I needed some lead for making some exquisite fishing line jig sinkers. ![]() lead bars are running about $3.00/lb with shipping (25lbs min order) You do the math... ![]() It all worked for me. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 8588 Location: Annapolis, MD, USA |
![]() I think I may give the Shorai a try next time I need a new battery.
The unused space in the well might be a handy spot to put a tool roll. |
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![]() Silver Streak wrote: I think I may give the Shorai a try next time I need a new battery. The unused space in the well might be a handy spot to put a tool roll. Sure would like having one of throes tenor ukes you make. It would fit perfectly in my sidecar. |
![]() Re: Lithium Iron Phosphate Powersports Batteries Continued
ExonicJay wrote: As I said in my last post, I originally was going to use the lithium battery pack that was posted by jkbenn02's post http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic67182? That battery pack looked like it needed some kind of enclosure and required re-terminated the battery cables. I had already gutted the battery case before I found out about the Shorai Lithium Iron Phosphate battery. So, since the gutted battery case was available I went ahead and used it. It did simplified the installation since I didn't have to re-terminate the scoot's battery cables and required less padding for the much smaller Shorai battery. I also wanted a neat installation that was easy to convert back to a lead acid battery if desired. BTW I needed some lead for making some exquisite fishing line jig sinkers. ![]() lead bars are running about $3.00/lb with shipping (25lbs min order) You do the math... It all worked for me. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() ExonicJay,
Any idea on the weight savings between your old and new batteries? Just curious.Thanks for the pioneering work. |
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![]() Scootover wrote: ExonicJay, Any idea on the weight savings between your old and new batteries? Just curious.Thanks for the pioneering work. My old lead acid battery weighed about 8 lbs. So, the new lithium iron battery is about 1/5 the weight of my old lead acid battery. |
Addicted
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![]() The Shorai battery is working well in my ET4.
Starting the ET4 is way quicker with the Shorai battery. Starts with about a 1 second push of the starter button. I did add an additional mod to the battery system. I wanted to totally disconnect the battery from the scooter during long non-riding periods. Since the Shorai battery is much smaller I had room to add a Master Disconnect Switch to the old gutted battery case that houses the Shorai battery. Found a 12v 50 amp rated switch at Radio Shack that fit nicely. However, I did shorten the switch's bat handle length about 1/2". I still have room in the old battery box for a current shunt for an ammeter. Looking for a cool Voltmeter/Ammeter combo. Hoping for an analog type meter. More later on the ammeter. ET4 Master Switch ![]() Battery cover removed to expose Master Switch ![]() Mounting of Master Switch on top of old battery box ![]() |
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 8588 Location: Annapolis, MD, USA |
![]() Doubt if you'll find a combo voltmeter/ammeter in an analog gauge, but here are a bunch of analog meters from a discount marine supplier that I have successfully dealt with in the past:
http://search.defender.com/search.aspx?expression=voltmeter+ammeter&x=0&y=0 Not much room there for analog gauges, though. |
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![]() Have found a few volt/ammeter combo's like this one that is used on airplanes.
http://www.dfwairparts.com/Instruments/Engine-Instruments/2-in-1-Volts-Amps-Voltmeter-Ammeter-Indicator-92267.html#googlebase However, I would have to do some re-scaling of the volt meter and/or the current shunt. I am planning to mount the V/A meter on the windshield post or on the ET4 knee pad. I have also found this Meter that I really like from Lascar. 9 Segment LCD Meter 1V Full Scale Reading No Calibration Required Wire Connections Round Hole Mounting ![]() For more details click below: http://www.lascarelectronics.com/temperaturedatalogger.php?datalogger=111 |
![]() Belkwinith wrote: They also told me my 2006 battery was going to go dead soon, and all I was doing now was squeezing the electrolytes outta it, by adding more distilled water. Seriously, the shit they tell people. I had a professor of Chemistry/Material Engineering that told great stories about the shit the mechanics used to tell her. "Let's start this conversation over, you will address me as Doktor Silberburg." ( I think she actually said "Frau Doktor" but it has been a few years) Things are a bit more formal in Germany I suppose... (Batteries die for two reasons: 1. There is a short across plates. A plate has shifted, or there is a mineral bridge causing the short. 2. Sufficient oxidation is preventing ion exchange. Usually by contamination, hence the use of distilled water. ) |
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![]() After more exploring, I found a Lascar back lighted LCD meter
that would work for a voltage and ammeter analog looking meter. SP 5-1710-BL 17 Segment Backlit LCD 0-1V and -1V-0-1V d.c. Ranges 5 to 12Vdc Supply Voltage Screw Terminal Connection Splashproof ![]() Details: http://www.lascarelectronics.com/temperaturedatalogger.php?datalogger=159 But look at this baby. I could display all kinds of things I have always wanted to monitor. Like Volts, Amps, Engine Temps, Fuel Flow and more on one 2.4" display. Panel Pilot ![]() Details: http://www.panelpilot.com/ Be sure to look at the demo and configuration tab. |
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![]() The Shorai Battery charger is now available for about 80 bucks.
I have measured each cell in my new Shoral Lithium LFX14A2-BS12 I installed in my 2002 ET4. I using the 5 pin connecter to measure cell voltages. Found all cell voltages within 2% or less of each other. However, I ordered the charger anyway. I am going to make this the last battery I ever buy for my ET4. Starting is still very very strong. Engine seems to run better too. These Shoral Lithium Iron Battery is kicking butt so far. ![]() Full detals https://www.shoraipower.com/p-184-sho-bms01.aspx |
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![]() Shorai Lithium Iron Phosphate battery update.
The battery has been in service for about 6 months. It's working great! The battery has made my 2002 ET4-150 a different machine. Starting is very robust and I swear the ET4-150 has more power and runs smoother. |
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