SS180 bogging at WOT and going crazy
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Molto Verboso
Footsie?
Joined: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 1061
Location: Los Angeles
Sat May 07, 2011 9:10 pm quote
carlo r wrote:
ill put money on that it is actually starving at top end
check all fuel delivery points, lines, jets and sometimes theres a build up in the tank of crud quick check is disconnect line from carby and blow it back through on reserve as well then your needle and all the carby holes
Good call.

Clogged fuel tap is another to check.
Member
SS180, Sprint 150
Joined: 03 May 2011
Posts: 43
Location: Croatia
Sun May 08, 2011 11:02 pm quote
Thank you everyone.

News:

It's the high RPM, not WOT

HT coil changed - same problem
Fuel line inspected - all clear.
Changed the fuel tap and fuel hose (it can only be too short) - same problem.
Removed carb fuel filter - same problem.
All new carb gaskets - same problem
Main jet 128 - same problem but plug looks better

I'll get BE2 and BE1 mixers and main jets 130 and 134 tomorrow
Contact points pin looks a little off - I think the thread on the stator plate is damaged and prior owner has glued it in. I have new stator plate (plate only) and I'll change it today
Condenser will arrive tomorrow

You'll notice I am aiming at ignition, even though the plug is telling me it's lean. That's because my restoration guru has finally decided to give me some advice and says it's the ignition. Plus I have tried everything to solve the "fuel starvation" problem.
nothing at all
Joined: 14 Nov 2008
Posts: 9657
Location: westla
Mon May 09, 2011 9:04 am quote
keep us posted
Member
SS180, Sprint 150
Joined: 03 May 2011
Posts: 43
Location: Croatia
Tue May 10, 2011 2:33 am quote
Same problem.

My next guess - internal ignition coil.

Does anyone know if I can use the one from my dearest donor - Sprint 150?
Molto Verboso
Joined: 31 May 2009
Posts: 1221
Location: NC, USA
Tue May 10, 2011 3:58 am quote
Kivno wrote:
blackbart wrote:
Possibly hook up a timing light, then rev up to high rpm and hold it steady. Aimed at the flywheel, everything (cooling fins) should freeze and remain fairly steady without jumping around. If it jumps back and forth a LOT, timing is inconsistent and is most noticeable at high rpms when riding. Usually caused by crank wobble, rough points cam, weak points spring, or a less than perfect electrical connection in the ignition system.

Maybe disconnect the kill wire to make sure it has no leakage to ground, or check the condition of wires from the stator. Good luck.
Thanks, it's far from steady but to tell you the truth I've never seen a Vespa flywheel strobo-steady on high revs.

I have tried disconnecting the red kill wire. Crankshaft is new. Cam is new and oiled, points are new and double spring.

I will try with Sprint external coil. I will also try double-spring points (it's ordered).

How could it ride so damn perfect up to 3/4 OT? I mean really really perfect.
As you mentioned above, even a good running Vespa engine will fail to perfectly "freeze" when using a timing light. I have one points engine that does it the best. But a timing light will indicate ignition misses if it jumps all over the place and is another tool for diagnosing problems. That same engine had high rpm missing that was corrected by changing the wire from the stator to the coil. I suspect leakage to ground. That wire has higher voltage than the rest. I have measured over 70 volts peak with respect to ground.

Good luck with the stator coil and keep us posted. Good thread, hopefully with a positive conclusion.
Enthusiast
lotsa different ones
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
Posts: 58
Location: midwest
Tue May 10, 2011 4:25 am quote
coil or condensor
I always use p125 coils on gs and ss motors they are cheap and they work better (unless its a concourse restoration) you can also check to see if its the condenser by putting a condenser in line externally. Joe Caseola has a nice you tube video on how to do this just search testing a vespa condensor.

Without listening to the motor or riding it it is very hard to diagnose , it looks like you are hitting all the bases and should find the culprit eventually . .
Member
SS180, Sprint 150
Joined: 03 May 2011
Posts: 43
Location: Croatia
Tue May 10, 2011 4:53 am quote
Re: coil or condensor
The new condenser has arrived and I will try the Sprint internal coil.

Can't wait to get back to my garage.

One more hour and I'll be here :

nothing at all
Joined: 14 Nov 2008
Posts: 9657
Location: westla
Tue May 10, 2011 6:37 am quote
we can start takin bets

my money is the coil will give results
Molto Verboso
1974 Rally 200, 1977 Rally 200, 1958 LD125 Mk III, 1965 S.S. 180 and on and on
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 1308
Location: Van Nuys, CA
Tue May 10, 2011 11:25 am quote
Please change only one variable at a time for the most scientific results.

My bet is still the condenser, but that is without a visual or tactile inspection of the points. The info about the points post scares me a little.
Molto Verboso
Joined: 31 May 2009
Posts: 1221
Location: NC, USA
Tue May 10, 2011 3:22 pm quote
You're not going to be able to troubleshoot anything in that shop. The sparkling cleanliness is too distracting and there would be too much concern about keeping things that way.
nothing at all
Joined: 14 Nov 2008
Posts: 9657
Location: westla
Tue May 10, 2011 7:51 pm quote
blackbart wrote:
You're not going to be able to troubleshoot anything in that shop. The sparkling cleanliness is too distracting and there would be too much concern about keeping things that way.
i'm a little worried though, there seems to be something plastic looming in the right corner
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a red lipstick '74 sprint
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5738
Location: Indo
Tue May 10, 2011 10:58 pm quote
jimmyb865 wrote:
blackbart wrote:
You're not going to be able to troubleshoot anything in that shop. The sparkling cleanliness is too distracting and there would be too much concern about keeping things that way.
i'm a little worried though, there seems to be something plastic looming in the right corner
honestly speaking, DANG!! thats a clean garage
Member
SS180, Sprint 150
Joined: 03 May 2011
Posts: 43
Location: Croatia
Tue May 10, 2011 11:32 pm quote
SOLVED!!!

We will have to wait until next week to find out what was the problem. I really didn't feel like replacing one by one but I promise I'll do it next week.
This is what I did:
- moved everything to another 6A stator plate because of the damaged CB pin thread
- replaced the internal ignition coil (my bet also)
- replaced the condenser

Went home at midnight, couldn't sleep, went back at 1.30 AM and took a ride. Clean ride, 107 kmh (GPS), amazing acc, almost crashed into a truck, happy face, no sleep at all... Dubrovnik here we come!!!

The photo was taken long time ago. I'll take some photos today. It' even cleaner

That's my wife's 2T LX50 in the right corner

Thank you all!!!!!!!!
Member
SS180, Sprint 150
Joined: 03 May 2011
Posts: 43
Location: Croatia
Thu May 12, 2011 7:33 am quote
Kivno wrote:
The photo was taken long time ago. I'll take some photos today. It' even cleaner
Cleaner









nothing at all
Joined: 14 Nov 2008
Posts: 9657
Location: westla
Thu May 12, 2011 7:47 am quote
damn!!! the shop looks great and are you telling me you live in that town with the harbor


i gotta get out more
Member
SS180, Sprint 150
Joined: 03 May 2011
Posts: 43
Location: Croatia
Thu May 12, 2011 11:49 pm quote
jimmyb865 wrote:
damn!!! the shop looks great and are you telling me you live in that town with the harbor

i gotta get out more
No, I live in Zagreb.

This is Dubrovnik and we have a Vespa meeting there this weekend. Which reminds me - I gotta go. Ciao!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a red lipstick '74 sprint
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5738
Location: Indo
Fri May 13, 2011 2:52 am quote
now this is serius.. what with the yellow mellow p series?? what u gonna do to her

anyway its a way too clean for a vintage garage and i salute u mate
Member
SS180, Sprint 150
Joined: 03 May 2011
Posts: 43
Location: Croatia
Mon May 16, 2011 1:39 am quote
koenig blues wrote:
now this is serius.. what with the yellow mellow p series?? what u gonna do to her

anyway its a way too clean for a vintage garage and i salute u mate
Yellow mellow is my friend's 1984 PX200. Originally it was dark grey and his wife didn't like it
He crashed it last year and the only way his wife would let him drive again was to let her choose the color. There it is - ugliest yellow I've ever seen.
nothing at all
Joined: 14 Nov 2008
Posts: 9657
Location: westla
Mon May 16, 2011 6:17 am quote
Kivno wrote:
koenig blues wrote:
now this is serius.. what with the yellow mellow p series?? what u gonna do to her

anyway its a way too clean for a vintage garage and i salute u mate
Yellow mellow is my friend's 1984 PX200. Originally it was dark grey and his wife didn't like it
He crashed it last year and the only way his wife would let him drive again was to let her choose the color. There it is - ugliest yellow I've ever seen.
funny story kivno, but whatever it takes to get her and the bike on the road
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a red lipstick '74 sprint
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5738
Location: Indo
Mon May 16, 2011 6:56 am quote
jimmyb865 wrote:
Kivno wrote:
koenig blues wrote:
now this is serius.. what with the yellow mellow p series?? what u gonna do to her

anyway its a way too clean for a vintage garage and i salute u mate
Yellow mellow is my friend's 1984 PX200. Originally it was dark grey and his wife didn't like it
He crashed it last year and the only way his wife would let him drive again was to let her choose the color. There it is - ugliest yellow I've ever seen.
funny story kivno, but whatever it takes to get her and the bike on the road
yellow are always mellow in my eyes but ur friend story make me jealous as no matter how hard i paint my bike the girl i love will never be able to ride with me
Member
SS180, Sprint 150
Joined: 03 May 2011
Posts: 43
Location: Croatia
Tue May 17, 2011 11:44 pm quote
I finally found some time to figure out what was the problem.

It was the condenser.
Molto Verboso
1974 Rally 200, 1977 Rally 200, 1958 LD125 Mk III, 1965 S.S. 180 and on and on
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 1308
Location: Van Nuys, CA
Wed May 18, 2011 2:50 pm quote
Kivno wrote:
I finally found some time to figure out what was the problem.

It was the condenser.
Yay, I win!!!
Lurker
1966 Vespa 180 Super Sport
Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 3
Location: Southern Ok.
Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:43 pm quote
I hope this response is not to late. I also own a 1966 Vespa 180SS with 11K miles that bogs when throttle is 3/4 to full. I think I now know what is causing this problem. The woodriff key did not hold the flywheel and the flywheel backed off and resulted in some scoring on the inside of the flywheel. I believe thats when my problem started and this could be your problem. I have ordered a new flywheel and parts to convert to electronic ingition and 12 volts. I have also done about everything but this. Hope this helps.
Addicted
Vespa PX200
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 621
Location: Sydney, Australia
Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:39 pm quote
brylar007 wrote:
I hope this response is not to late.
You just responded, with a suggested fix, to a 2 year old thread, 21 months after the solution was posted!

Southern Oklahoma eh? Things pretty laid back there I guess.
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1671
Location: Siam
Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:03 am quote
Bar Italia Classics wrote:
Kivno wrote:
I finally found some time to figure out what was the problem.

It was the condenser.
Yay, I win!!!
Now, wouldn’t it have been just awesome if he had taken some serious hours to drop the motor, split the cases, and completely rebuild the motor to find out later that it was a mere condensor? 😆

This has to be the most ridiculous thread I’ve ever read.
Moderator
VNB VSC VBC VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4794
Location: Hustletown, TX
Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:19 am quote
10+ year old thread and revived for a spitball comment?
*insert zombi gif here _______*
Hooked
PX
Joined: 28 May 2020
Posts: 103
Location: Bognor Regis
Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:42 am quote
Posted in error, removed, sorry

Last edited by ferriswolf on Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:34 am; edited 2 times in total
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1671
Location: Siam
Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:51 am quote
I recommend that you drop the engine and split the cases. After that, put it all back together, and then check the condensor. 😁
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