Pass that Dutch (125cc ET4) -> 2stroke lc 180cc
Post Reply    Forum -> Project Reports 12Next
Author Message
Member
99'Vespa ET125
Joined: 24 Jul 2011
Posts: 13
Location: Netherlands
Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:20 am quote
Hello,

I am Jonathan from the netherlands. And this is my 99 et4 125cc (no leader)

Plans: new seat, respray and some small things

i

kleinerefotooo.jpg



Last edited by habbekrats on Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:21 am; edited 4 times in total
Hooked
09 s150, 74 177 super, 64 vnb, 63 li150
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 163
Location: richmond va
Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:36 am quote
Nice looking bike! love the colour.

to get the photos to show up you need to click the Img button up there ^ and then put the link to the picture. then you click the Img button again and it should work.
Member
99'Vespa ET125
Joined: 24 Jul 2011
Posts: 13
Location: Netherlands
Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:00 am quote
Thanks everybody for your advise...


I bought a Malossi Multivar and mounted on the Vespa. the topspeed went from 80/85 to 95/100 also the acceleration is better, but there is always room for improvemend.



Last edited by habbekrats on Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:43 am; edited 1 time in total
Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 8129
Location: Atlanta, GA
Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:15 am quote
habbekrats wrote:
does lighter varioweights help? or maybe different spring in te rear clutch?
Weights work as their name implies - they are weights. Lighter weights require higher RPMs to "shift" up. Heavier weights succumb to centripetal forces more easily, and so move outwards in the variator at lower RPMs.

What does this mean to you? It depends. Generally speaking, lighter weights will improve acceleration while slightly decreasing top speed, while heavier weights will decrease acceleration performance but can help top speed. But these generalities only hold up in relation to how the rest of the scooter is tuned. If your engine and gearing likes high RPMs, you might get better performance out of lighter weights. Conversely, if you have a low RPM machine you might rev out too quickly and have disappointing performance with lighter weights.

So you might either A) not mess with the weights at all, B) buy some weights which are lighter and some which are heaver than what you have now and try them both out and see if one gives a better ride for your purposes, or C) try to figure out whether any performance mods you do are shifting your power band, and if so, what direction. Then from there you can pick the way you want to adjust your weights.

When I added a performance pipe to my ET2, it shifted the power band higher, so I needed lighter weights to keep the scooter from riding like it had oatmeal in the petrol
Member
99'Vespa ET125
Joined: 24 Jul 2011
Posts: 13
Location: Netherlands
Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:10 am quote
So i decided to do a engine swap.

its a 2stroke liquid cooled engine from a gilera runner.


it only fits a 12inch wheel because of the 140mm brakdrum. so if anyone knows a solution to fit a 10inch??

kleinere.jpg
p

Member
99'Vespa ET125
Joined: 24 Jul 2011
Posts: 13
Location: Netherlands
Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:23 pm quote
so i made my first testdrive stil lot of work to do. engine doesnt run quite wel.

if you guys would like to, i can make a few more pictures
TEAM #68
ET4 & GT160
Joined: 29 Nov 2011
Posts: 1645
Location: S.West England
Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:26 pm quote
habbekrats wrote:
so i made my first testdrive stil lot of work to do. engine doesnt run quite wel.

if you guys would like to, i can make a few more pictures
Do it. More pics
Molto Verboso
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 1917

Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:00 pm quote
Its looking good !

We love lots of pictures !
Hooked
'04 ET4 190 +hotcam, Scorp Exhaust, Stereo. SPEED HOLES!
Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 190
Location: SLC, UT
Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:28 pm quote
Thats good looking, love it. GLGL
Hooked
Vespa
Joined: 22 Feb 2010
Posts: 137
Location: Brisvegas, Australia
Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:54 pm quote
habbekrats wrote:
So i decided to do a engine swap.

its a 2stroke liquid cooled engine from a gilera runner.


it only fits a 12inch wheel because of the 140mm brakdrum. so if anyone knows a solution to fit a 10inch??
Nice project – is that Gilera Runner 180 2T engine ?
Modifying the Gilera engine case to suit the smaller Vespa drum brake I think would be difficult – the brake mounting point need to be accurate and strong. So you need some engineering and perhaps some cast welding too..

The engine case from Piaggio Typhoon, Skipper and Hexagon (2 strokes) will fit perfectly the Vespa LX / ET rear wheel hub. you could swap the engine transmission side casing from one of these engines, but it’s a lot of work splitting cases and rebuilding etc, etc..

Does the Gilera rear wheel fit inside the Vespa frame OK ? Do you have a raiser for the rear suspension? And proper clearance of the exhaust and frame ?

What about modifying the front hub so it can accommodate the Gilera 12 inch wheel?
That would give the scooter matching wheels and unique looks with big wheels front and back ? Like the SIP “Inglorious bastard” scooter.

I notice you run the coolant pipe return into the frame, do you have more pictures of your s

IMG_6665 [800x600].JPG
A picture of the radiator set up on my Vespa LX 150 2T

IMG_5610 [800x600].JPG
The rear brake hub on the Hexagon engine 150 2T - fits into Vespa LX wheel

Member
99'Vespa ET125
Joined: 24 Jul 2011
Posts: 13
Location: Netherlands
Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:43 am quote
thanks,i wil make more pictures soon.

i really like your setup! especially the radiators. it is indeed a 180cc 2 stroke runner only temporary a have 125cc. if al works wel i wil go next winter for the malossi cilinder.

i need a different rear shock because the exaust hits at the back. my cooland bottle hits the steer when i turn full left. my trottle cabel is a few inch to short,i need to dril holes for the radiator.(anyone have some nice ideas) and ajusting the engine so it runs right.


i wil search for the 110 60 12 tires. and maybe try to fit a back wheel of a runner with dubbel disk in front. so i have 2x 12inch in the same design
Mr. Clean
P,SUPER,V90, 50 Special
Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 10207
Location: This is't my locker!
Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:49 am quote
habbekrats wrote:
,i need to dril holes for the radiator.(anyone have some nice ideas)
If you can, check out the Jan, 2011 issue of Scootering, there a bike called "Inspired" with all kinds of radiator holes in it... may give you some ideas.
Member
99'Vespa ET125
Joined: 24 Jul 2011
Posts: 13
Location: Netherlands
Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:33 am quote
i only see a little picture. thats a lot of holes to drill! haha, im to lazy for that
Mr. Clean
P,SUPER,V90, 50 Special
Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 10207
Location: This is't my locker!
Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:45 am quote
Yeah that is a LOT of holes... plenty of air flow though !

Screen shot 2012-04-02 at 12.42.18 PM.jpg

Screen shot 2012-04-02 at 12.42.33 PM.jpg

Enthusiast
Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 80
Location: uk
Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:20 am quote
hi, my attempt at a stealth vespa
started life as a et2 50cc before and after pictures now fitted with a typhoon 125 engine fitted with a malossi 172 top end ,kit 25mm carb ,clutch variator ,reeds ,reed block malossi drive belt. did have a pm52 race pipe but now back to a standard hexagon exhaust also fitted a lx front panel and vespa S headlight clocks and screen using the standard loom and wiring the engine into the charging system hope you like my efforts next project is a water cooled version

!C!UZEgg!2k~$(KGrHqEOKjkEzIr6fDfsBNCeTjRH(!~~_12.jpg

Picture 295a.JPG

Picture 297.JPG

Picture 296a.JPG

Hooked
Vespa
Joined: 22 Feb 2010
Posts: 137
Location: Brisvegas, Australia
Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:49 am quote
Nice work.

Very stealth indeed, a 172 auto 2 stroke... - an amazing amount of work you have done there converting all the trim to LX, did you convert the rear indicators to LX types as well ?

When you had the PM52 pipe, did it suit the Vespa frame or did you have to modify to allow clearance on the trim ?

It looks a bit low at the back, did you raise the rear suspension ? Saves cutting down the original mud guard.

I ask so many questions because I have an LX with a similar engine conversion - the engine I used came from a Skipper 150 2T
Enthusiast
Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 80
Location: uk
Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:06 pm quote
Hi,all the back end panels are still et2 inclucding the indicators but with the rear light cut out and a vespa S bracket welded in place.the side panels are vespa S also which are slightly smaller than the lx version and yes there was clearance issues when wheeling or over speed humps i spaced the pipe out slightly this helped and also fitted a longer shock off the new shape gilera runner 50 my malossi shock was too short .the only thing i have not done yet is to shorthen the front engine mount by about 1/2 an inch to get better clearance on rhe rear mudguard .If i can find some photos of the PM 52 exhaust on i,ll post them
Member
Vespa LX / Vespa S
Joined: 19 Apr 2012
Posts: 6
Location: Holland
Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:18 pm quote
habbekrats wrote:
So i decided to do a engine swap.

its a 2stroke liquid cooled engine from a gilera runner.


it only fits a 12inch wheel because of the 140mm brakdrum. so if anyone knows a solution to fit a 10inch??
Why don't you try to fit an LX front wheel in the back, you'll go from 12 inch to 11. Maybe with a small tire it will buy you just enough space to do the trick.

Doing some same sort of project, just can't decide yet which engine i'm going to use; a Piaggio long block or a short one (Runner or Zip SP)
Member
99'Vespa ET125
Joined: 24 Jul 2011
Posts: 13
Location: Netherlands
Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:54 am quote
my problem is that i got a engine with brake drum . if i did my homework better i bought the dubbel disc engine. and fitted a front wheel at the back.

i didn't had time to work on it so no updates. or pictures.
Enthusiast
Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 80
Location: uk
Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:30 pm quote
if your using a drum brake engine maybe the 11 inch hexagon wheel would be a good choice smaller wheel but same brake shoes as a runner i think. ps there are two rear drum wheels for a hexagon one is a small drum which the standard lx back wheel will fit and the larger one which should be the same size as a runner drum brake
Member
Granturismo 210, ET2 172, VBA 200, GL150, V100, SKR 172, Dragster 180, Velocifero 50, PK100s
Joined: 07 Sep 2011
Posts: 31
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:25 am quote
habbekrats wrote:
my problem is that i got a engine with brake drum . if i did my homework better i bought the dubbel disc engine. and fitted a front wheel at the back.

i didn't had time to work on it so no updates. or pictures.
It's really great to see a project like this, I started building one about 3 years ago, it's been ripped down ready for paint for the last year, then I started building a workshop and it went on the back burner.

I'm using a Typhoon 125 motor (Malossi 172 etc), I liked the design of the 11' Hexagon wheels so decided to go with those, the offset on the front needs correcting and I jacked up the rear end slightly, if I can get a gear kit tall enough I'll drop it again and use a lower prifile tyre, the bigger front wheel means I can use the larger GT style caliper.

If you want matching 10' wheels on that then why not use a Typhoon rear wheel from the later external clutch nut motor, this is the one with the casing cast with caliper brackets, this will fit the Runner drum motor, then use a front wheel from a sigle sided fork model Zip.

This is as far as I got before the rip down:



Hooked
Vespa
Joined: 22 Feb 2010
Posts: 137
Location: Brisvegas, Australia
Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:56 am quote
habbekrats wrote:
thanks,i wil make more pictures soon.

i really like your setup! especially the radiators. it is indeed a 180cc 2 stroke runner only temporary a have 125cc. if al works wel i wil go next winter for the malossi cilinder.

If you can find a pair of Vespa GT radiators this is a good solution, because it is possible to make them fit inside a Vespa LX frame, and they are very efficient at heat exchange, even with out an electric fan.

I recently saw an ET2 with a large single radiator and lots of holes drilled into the legshield, this works OK but needs very accurate and symmetrical drilling for a nice look.

With my LX I had to carefully align the position of the GT radiators so that the floorboard can be removed.

I am running Hexagon CSV1M engine 150cc 2 stroke rebuilt with 55mm full circle crank and 25mm carburettor .

IMG_6536 [800x600].JPG
glove box door removed

IMG_6417 [800x600].JPG

IMG_6588 [800x600].JPG
Airflow into the radiators works well, I plan to refit the front wheel guard with some extra cut-away

Member
99'Vespa ET125
Joined: 24 Jul 2011
Posts: 13
Location: Netherlands
Sun May 06, 2012 3:42 am quote
smal update

I bought the smaller tire, i really like it! a real difference with the old tire

i als got a different rear shock, same size, only stiffer. so no more exaust bumping


the vespa is still not running ok. cold its ok, but as soon it warms up (few minutes) it becomes worse and worse.

does the choke need voltage to work? or does it needs voltage to disable the choke? (it is now not connected)

i also bougt a vespa s horn cover, with a few ajustments it will fit the et, so i have a nice air grill. i dont think it is gonna cool enough this way. so i probably dril a few holes on each side of the horn cover.

i also painted the speedometer black, in the picture you can also see the cooland bottle

kleinerefotobanden.jpg

kleinerefotoscooter.jpg

kleinerefateua.jpg

kleineiundee.jpg

Addicted
2007 Vespa GT200
Joined: 05 Mar 2011
Posts: 583
Location: Southern California
Sun May 06, 2012 6:23 am quote
Modified Vespa...extreme :o)
The electric choke is the "heated element" type and is rich to start, then goes to lean when hot. Be careful, 2T's as most 2-stroke engines love a richer mixture, going lean means you run a chance of holing a piston or seizing.
Hooked
Vespa
Joined: 22 Feb 2010
Posts: 137
Location: Brisvegas, Australia
Sun May 06, 2012 9:51 am quote
Which type of carburettor are you using ?

The default setting for electric choke is ON

When power (usually AC) is applied the choke will slowly switch OFF after 10 mins or so.

Personally, I find the automatic choke frustrating.

I suggest installing a manual choke control, it’s easy to buy the kit to do this and it gives you much better control, because you know for certain if choke is ON or OFF.
Enthusiast
Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 80
Location: uk
Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:38 pm quote
pm52 pictures
little bit late but. if you lok very carefully just below the S50 badge you can see were it was just rubbing the paint work

ScreenHunter_06 Jun. 07 21.23.jpg

Hooked
Vespa
Joined: 22 Feb 2010
Posts: 137
Location: Brisvegas, Australia
Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:42 pm quote
What kind of performance difference did you get with the PM52 vs. the stock pipe ?

Here is a picture of the lifter I used during my build. I used the standard length Vespa LX swing arm, I wonder if this would help give the clearance needed for the PM52.

I am running the stock pipe with the SIP stainless steel down pipe connection.

BGM lifter [800x600].jpg
5cm lifter from SIP.

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7647
Location: San Francisco
Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:32 pm quote
doniq wrote:
What kind of performance difference did you get with the PM52 vs. the stock pipe ?

Here is a picture of the lifter I used during my build. I used the standard length Vespa LX swing arm, I wonder if this would help give the clearance needed for the PM52.

I am running the stock pipe with the SIP stainless steel down pipe connection.
What rear hub are you running?
Petty Tyrant
GTS250 GTS300 MP3 500
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 29677
Location: Bay Area, California
Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:24 am quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
doniq wrote:
What kind of performance difference did you get with the PM52 vs. the stock pipe ?

Here is a picture of the lifter I used during my build. I used the standard length Vespa LX swing arm, I wonder if this would help give the clearance needed for the PM52.

I am running the stock pipe with the SIP stainless steel down pipe connection.
What rear hub are you running?
Yes, inquiring minds want to know! Specifically, how did you mate a split-rim style wheel to that engine. Is that a Skipper 2T part?
Enthusiast
Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 80
Location: uk
Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:20 pm quote
Althou the pm52 sounded alot better than the standard exhaust i prefered the standard pipe more, the pm52 had alot more low down acceleration but tended to lose it in the mid to top end and the standard pipe felt a bit more torquey in the mid to top end range .maybe a bit more work on the rollers would have helped
Hooked
Vespa
Joined: 22 Feb 2010
Posts: 137
Location: Brisvegas, Australia
Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:36 pm quote
quaddiekev wrote:
Althou the pm52 sounded alot better than the standard exhaust i prefered the standard pipe more, the pm52 had alot more low down acceleration but tended to lose it in the mid to top end and the standard pipe felt a bit more torquey in the mid to top end range .maybe a bit more work on the rollers would have helped
OK – good stuff, I want to get a PM52, or similar expansion chamber exhaust at some stage.

Interesting you say the low end power was improved.

I reckon the stock pipe is good, but I've got nothing to compare it to, also mine, it's starting to fall apart due to rust and each time I weld it gets weaker and harder to fix.

Out of interest what weight rollers are you running, you got any other mods in the transmission like clutch springs and contra spring ?
Are you running PHBL 25 ?
Hooked
Vespa
Joined: 22 Feb 2010
Posts: 137
Location: Brisvegas, Australia
Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:38 pm quote
jess wrote:
oopsclunkthud wrote:
doniq wrote:
What kind of performance difference did you get with the PM52 vs. the stock pipe ?

Here is a picture of the lifter I used during my build. I used the standard length Vespa LX swing arm, I wonder if this would help give the clearance needed for the PM52.

I am running the stock pipe with the SIP stainless steel down pipe connection.
What rear hub are you running?
Yes, inquiring minds want to know! Specifically, how did you mate a split-rim style wheel to that engine. Is that a Skipper 2T part?
That rim is from a Piaggio Skipper 150 2T it's a 10” split rim with inner tube. The Vespa LX 2T wheels are an identical swap. I have not modified the rim or drum brake, it just fits perfect.
Petty Tyrant
GTS250 GTS300 MP3 500
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 29677
Location: Bay Area, California
Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:22 am quote
doniq wrote:
That rim is from a Piaggio Skipper 150 2T it's a 10” split rim with inner tube. The Vespa LX 2T wheels are an identical swap. I have not modified the rim or drum brake, it just fits perfect.
Excellent. Thanks for that bit of info. Of course, the Skipper 150 2T is virtually unheard of in the US, but at least the part is out there.

(I have an ambitious project involving a Lambretta frame and a GT200 engine, and this wheel would be perfect for it...)
Enthusiast
skipper st125
Joined: 28 Apr 2014
Posts: 53
Location: York,uk
Sun May 11, 2014 11:20 pm quote
Hi guys
I have a skipper st125 with 140mm drum brake. I want to fit a 10 inch wheel or reduce the tyre size.
What wheel did you use i cannot seem to find them.
What tyre did you fit is it smaller?
Regards

Robbie
Enthusiast
Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 80
Location: uk
Mon May 12, 2014 1:48 pm quote
back wheel options
if its the large drum brake model then a piaggio typhoon 10 inch wheel will fit if its the small drum version then a et2 or 4 wheel will fit plus the lx 50 wheel will fit the small drum model .I think i still have a piaggio typhoon large and small drum 10 ibch back wheels and also a lx 50 back wheel
Enthusiast
skipper st125
Joined: 28 Apr 2014
Posts: 53
Location: York,uk
Mon May 12, 2014 9:26 pm quote
Mine is the 140 mm drum brake rear wheel. I think that is classed as large.
How much for the rear wheel?
Enthusiast
Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 80
Location: uk
Tue May 13, 2014 11:10 am quote
wreckless robbie wrote:
Mine is the 140 mm drum brake rear wheel. I think that is classed as large.
How much for the rear wheel?
Hi ,i will have a look for the wheel and have a measure up and let you know
Enthusiast
skipper st125
Joined: 28 Apr 2014
Posts: 53
Location: York,uk
Tue May 13, 2014 11:44 am quote
Brilliant

Thank you
Hooked
Formula 125
Joined: 19 May 2013
Posts: 239
Location: San Francisco
Tue May 13, 2014 3:54 pm quote
habbekrats wrote:
So i decided to do a engine swap.

its a 2stroke liquid cooled engine from a gilera runner.


it only fits a 12inch wheel because of the 140mm brakdrum. so if anyone knows a solution to fit a 10inch??
What's wrong with keeping the 12 inch wheel?
Enthusiast
skipper st125
Joined: 28 Apr 2014
Posts: 53
Location: York,uk
Tue May 13, 2014 9:39 pm quote
I want to put the engine into another frame. I need the extra two inches. Two inches makes a lot of difference ;
I have an ld frame. I am hoping to fit the engine into it. 10 inch wheels are mor in keeping. Ld.... Lovely looking but poor performance engine wise. Not designed for todays roads.
I thought the skipper had 10 inch wheels. My mistake.
I don't want 2 stroke yet surprisingly i know nothing whatsoever about 4 stroke or automatic scooters. All my other scooters are 2 stroke.
Its a challenge for me to make it work.
Land of 10,000 Scoots Rally   vespa scooterwest scooter west Motorsport Scooters   Yelcome Leather Top Cases and Roll Bags for Piaggio Vespa PX LX LXV GTS GTV
Post Reply    Forum -> Project Reports 12Next
[ Time: 0.2637s ][ Queries: 27 (0.0492s) ][ Debug on ]