MP3 400 Oil Type
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Lurker
2010 MP3 400
Joined: 08 Jun 2011
Posts: 4
Location: Toronto
Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:33 am quote
Hey everyone.

I recently got an oil change and I need to top it up.

The manual calls for any of these:
'AGIP CITY HI TEC 4T Engine oil SAE 5W-40, API SL, ACEA A3, JASO MA Synthetic oil'

Does it matter if intermix Brands of the same oil.
ie Castrol SAE 5W-40 & top it up with QuakerState SAE 5W-40...both synthetic?

thanks,

soah
Ossessionato
MP3 400 / BV200
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 3012
Location: San Diego, California
Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:39 am quote
The best deal for compatible oil is Walmart for the Shell Rotella T6. Full syn with all the proper specs, about $21US/gallon

This is the best deal on a filter for the 400

http://www.powersportsuperstore.com/HiFlo-Filter-HIFLO-HF184-FILTER-HF184-p/tr14-0184.htm
Lurker
2010 MP3 400
Joined: 08 Jun 2011
Posts: 4
Location: Toronto
Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:46 am quote
14perry wrote:
The best deal for compatible oil is Walmart for the Shell Rotella T6. Full syn with all the proper specs, about $21US/gallon

This is the best deal on a filter for the 400

http://www.powersportsuperstore.com/HiFlo-Filter-HIFLO-HF184-FILTER-HF184-p/tr14-0184.htm
I just want to know if you have intermixed oils without any problems?
thanks for the link
Ossessionato
MP3 400 / BV200
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 3012
Location: San Diego, California
Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:55 am quote
If you look at all the specs that Piaggio wants in the oil for the scoot not all 5w-40 syns fit the bill. If you have different oils that meet all I'm sure you can mix them. But as I remember reading only the Shell Rotella T6 and the Mobil 1 5W-40 Diesel meet all the specs.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 18109
Location: Kingston, Tennessee, Tn
Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:54 am quote
if the oil meets the jaso ma spec yes you can mix brands. normal off the shelf oil for cars DO NOT normally meet the jaso ma spec.

if your traveling and need oil by all means top it off with regular car oil and when you get home change it. Some oil is better than no oil when traveling.
Ossessionato
Scarabeo 500GT(hers), `07 250 MP3, `09 400 MP3
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 2176
Location: Kingman, Az.
Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:08 pm quote
Then there's me, the only guy here? who doesn't use synthetic oil in my 250 MP3 for the last 7K miles. But I do change the oil every 2K miles and the filter every 6K miles. I use Wal-Mart car oil 10W-40. OTOH, if I lived in a cold climate and rode in the wintertime, I'd probably use synthetic oil then. But instead I live in Arizona where I don't ride if the temp. is lower than 40F.
Molto Verboso
2009 MP3 400
Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 1758
Location: Upstate N.Y.
Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:18 am quote
10W-40? Can't you at least find cheap 5W-40?
Ossessionato
Scarabeo 500GT(hers), `07 250 MP3, `09 400 MP3
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 2176
Location: Kingman, Az.
Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:28 am quote
ramblerdan wrote:
10W-40? Can't you at least find cheap 5W-40?
5W- might be good in Canada, but not where I live. I have no need for such a light weight. Same thing with my other vehicles, some of which recommend 5W- oil. I run 10W- oil instead with no regrets.

In fact 5W- car oils have different ingredients in them for higher gas mileage, which supposedly in some cases gives your motor less protection on the metals in it.
Banned
MP3 500
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 4530
Location: Ashburn, Va
Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:46 am quote
norCal Randy wrote:
ramblerdan wrote:
10W-40? Can't you at least find cheap 5W-40?
5W- might be good in Canada, but not where I live. I have no need for such a light weight. Same thing with my other vehicles, some of which recommend 5W- oil. I run 10W- oil instead with no regrets.

In fact 5W- car oils have different ingredients in them for higher gas mileage, which supposedly in some cases gives your motor less protection on the metals in it.
You don't understand how multi weight oil works do you?

And your last comment is not correct. Do some reading on oil.

There is a reason Piaggio requires a synthetic oil. Synthetic has 700 times the shear factor as dino oil.This is the pressure it takes to make metal to metal contact with a film of oil between the surfaces. With synthetic it take 700 times more pressure to displace the oil.
You're worried about metals and you're use a dino oil? That makes no sense.

If you buy Rotella T6 you can get it for about $5,50 a qt. if you buy it by the gallon.
Ossessionato
Scarabeo 500GT(hers), `07 250 MP3, `09 400 MP3
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 2176
Location: Kingman, Az.
Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:50 pm quote
StooterBoy wrote:
norCal Randy wrote:
ramblerdan wrote:
10W-40? Can't you at least find cheap 5W-40?
5W- might be good in Canada, but not where I live. I have no need for such a light weight. Same thing with my other vehicles, some of which recommend 5W- oil. I run 10W- oil instead with no regrets.

In fact 5W- car oils have different ingredients in them for higher gas mileage, which supposedly in some cases gives your motor less protection on the metals in it.
You don't understand how multi weight oil works do you?

And your last comment is not correct. Do some reading on oil.

There is a reason Piaggio requires a synthetic oil. Synthetic has 700 times the shear factor as dino oil.This is the pressure it takes to make metal to metal contact with a film of oil between the surfaces. With synthetic it take 700 times more pressure to displace the oil.
You're worried about metals and you're use a dino oil? That makes no sense.

If you buy Rotella T6 you can get it for about $5,50 a qt. if you buy it by the gallon.
Sorry to tell you but I have read oil explanations.

Piaggio has no idea where their products may be operated, so they recommend an oil viscosity that will work everywhere.

FYI I have monitored an oil pressure gauge on a MC I have and I doubt you have ever seen what I have on how much the oil pressure fluctuates depending when it's cold at startup, or when the motor is hot and working hard. You'd be surprised how much the oil pressure fluctuates under certain conditions. This is on a MC that recommended 10W-50 oil in the motor that at the time wasn't even available in the USA!
For over 100K miles I've used 10W-40 in the winter time and 20W-50 in the summertime. A scooter motor doesn't have much load on it thanks to the CVT transmission. I have yet to have a motor die due to not good enough oil in it.

Furthermore I find it hard to believe a diesel oil(very low rpm) is OK for a motor that runs at 3X that rpm in a gasoline engine is good to use. I've been maintaining all my vehicles for 49 years.

The fact I change my MP3 oil every 2K miles helps too. I don't leave ANY oil in a motor for 6K or more miles! That's KRAZY, IMHO. If I ever regret what I do I'll be happy to admit it here.
Banned
MP3 500
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 4530
Location: Ashburn, Va
Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:34 am quote
norCal Randy wrote:
Furthermore I find it hard to believe a diesel oil(very low rpm) is OK for a motor that runs at 3X that rpm in a gasoline engine is good to use. I've been maintaining all my vehicles for 49 years.

The fact I change my MP3 oil every 2K miles helps too. I don't leave ANY oil in a motor for 6K or more miles! That's KRAZY, IMHO. If I ever regret what I do I'll be happy to admit it here.
I repeat what I said above, you do not understand oil. But good luck to you with your "opinions"
Load doesn't change the pressure between a rocker arm and a valve stem.

And as far as Diesel oil not being stressed as hard in a diesel motor, try using oil as a hydraulic fluid like they do on the Ford Power Stroke Diesel. The High Pressure Oil Pump, which compresses the engine oil up to 3,600 PSI to fire the fuel injectors, just destroys lesser oils.
It meets the ratings for our motors, where the dino you are using doesn't as it's not synthetic. Rotella T6 run circles around any dino oil you use.
Ossessionato
Scarabeo 500GT(hers), `07 250 MP3, `09 400 MP3
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 2176
Location: Kingman, Az.
Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:28 am quote
[quote="StooterBoy"]
norCal Randy wrote:
Furthermore I find it hard to believe a diesel oil(very low rpm) is OK for a motor that runs at 3X that rpm in a gasoline engine is good to use. I've been maintaining all my vehicles for 49 years.

The fact I change my MP3 oil every 2K miles helps too. I don't leave ANY oil in a motor for 6K or more miles! That's KRAZY, IMHO. If I ever regret what I do I'll be happy to admit it here.
I repeat what I said above, you do not understand oil. But good luck to you with your "opinions"
Load doesn't change the pressure between a rocker arm and a valve stem.





I've used dino car oil in a pushrod air cooled MC motor for over 100K miles and a w/c SOHC MC motor for over 84K miles. Neither have had any motor/valve issues. On both motors I have to adjust the valve clearances far later than recommended.

On the pushrod motor I have to drop the sump to change out the spin on filter. In doing so I see the whole underside of the motor and if there is any sludge buildup. At 10K miles per oil filter changeout some times I would see a little sludge and clean it out before reassembling. Otherwise the crank, rods, bearings look perfect.

I see our disagreement comparable to the scooter tire vs. car tire argument.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
BV 350, Aprilia SC 300, LX150ie, Buddy 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 6107
Location: Oregon City, OR
Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:47 am quote
norCal Randy wrote:
I see our disagreement comparable to the scooter tire vs. car tire argument.
And that one has a correct answer too .
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 18109
Location: Kingston, Tennessee, Tn
Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:49 am quote
Engine oil
SAE 5W-40, API SL, ACEA A3, JASO MA Synthetic oil

USING OILS OTHER THAN THOSE RECOMMENDED CAN SHORTEN THE LIFE
OF THE ENGINE.
Ossessionato
Scarabeo 500GT(hers), `07 250 MP3, `09 400 MP3
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 2176
Location: Kingman, Az.
Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:56 am quote
old as dirt wrote:
Engine oil
SAE 5W-40, API SL, ACEA A3, JASO MA Synthetic oil

USING OILS OTHER THAN THOSE RECOMMENDED CAN SHORTEN THE LIFE
OF THE ENGINE.
Well then someone needs to keep their MP3 long enough to see if and when that will happen.
Banned
MP3 500
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 4530
Location: Ashburn, Va
Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:15 am quote
Mines not going anywhere, and I will be very disappointed if I don't get at least 100,000 miles out of the motor. But, I am using the Piaggio recommended oil.
33,000+ so far.
Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 (sold) MP3 500 (current)
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 19639
Location: welaka, florida
Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:16 am quote
Dooglas wrote:
norCal Randy wrote:
I see our disagreement comparable to the scooter tire vs. car tire argument.
And that one has a correct answer too .
Sho' 'nuff does.
Banned
MP3 500
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 4530
Location: Ashburn, Va
Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:28 am quote
Car tire is fine if your not doing high speed hard turns. I bought my MP3 for the twists, not the highway.
Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 (sold) MP3 500 (current)
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 19639
Location: welaka, florida
Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:45 am quote
StooterBoy wrote:
Car tire is fine if your not doing high speed hard turns. I bought my MP3 for the twists, not the highway.
Said like a man with experience.
Banned
MP3 500
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 4530
Location: Ashburn, Va
Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:52 am quote
stickyfrog wrote:
StooterBoy wrote:
Car tire is fine if your not doing high speed hard turns. I bought my MP3 for the twists, not the highway.
Said like a man with experience.
I just know how a car tire is designed, that is, the side walls are designed to flex. Where on a motorcycle they not designed not to flex.
Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 (sold) MP3 500 (current)
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 19639
Location: welaka, florida
Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:56 am quote
StooterBoy wrote:
stickyfrog wrote:
StooterBoy wrote:
Car tire is fine if your not doing high speed hard turns. I bought my MP3 for the twists, not the highway.
Said like a man with experience.
I just know how a car tire is designed, that is, the side walls are designed to flex. Where on a motorcycle they not designed not to flex.
Yep. That is a fact, they do flex.
Ossessionato
Scarabeo 500GT(hers), `07 250 MP3, `09 400 MP3
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 2176
Location: Kingman, Az.
Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:30 pm quote
StooterBoy wrote:
stickyfrog wrote:
StooterBoy wrote:
Car tire is fine if your not doing high speed hard turns. I bought my MP3 for the twists, not the highway.
Said like a man with experience.
I just know how a car tire is designed, that is, the side walls are designed to flex. Where on a motorcycle they not designed not to flex.
Then apparently you have never experienced how a MC radial tire feels when pushed in a corner............you feel some flex, Mr. know it all.
Banned
MP3 500
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 4530
Location: Ashburn, Va
Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:09 am quote
norCal Randy wrote:
StooterBoy wrote:
stickyfrog wrote:
StooterBoy wrote:
Car tire is fine if your not doing high speed hard turns. I bought my MP3 for the twists, not the highway.
Said like a man with experience.
I just know how a car tire is designed, that is, the side walls are designed to flex. Where on a motorcycle they not designed not to flex.
Then apparently you have never experienced how a MC radial tire feels when pushed in a corner............you feel some flex, Mr. know it all.
But not anywhere near as much as a car tire. Grab the side wall of a motorcycle tire and then the sidewall if a car tire, which one has a LOT more flex.
Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 (sold) MP3 500 (current)
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 19639
Location: welaka, florida
Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:40 am quote
Yep more flex. Still not seeing how it relates to handling. I can take curves at speed pretty damn good. We have totally hijacked this thread btw.

Not picking on you Stoots but it is puzzling to me when people state an opinion like it is fact when they have no actual experience with the particular topic. Is it not conjecture and wouldn't it be better received if stated that way?
Molto Verboso
NC700XD
Joined: 28 Dec 2009
Posts: 1372
Location: Richmond, VA
Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:57 am quote
I thought you guys were just cramming all the usual argument topics into one thread for the sake of efficiently welcoming the newcomer.

For the original question: yes, it's OK to mix oil brands as long as they meet the same requirements and are the same weight. It's ideal to keep it consistent, but there's no need to risk running your engine low just to have the same brand. Any oil is better than none.
Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 (sold) MP3 500 (current)
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 19639
Location: welaka, florida
Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:34 am quote
LOL yeah it was starting to look that way.
Banned
MP3 500
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 4530
Location: Ashburn, Va
Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:56 am quote
Ok, make sure you use the Dyno Beads in the Darkside tire too
Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 (sold) MP3 500 (current)
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 19639
Location: welaka, florida
Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:02 am quote
LOL Stoots. Ok sorry to the OP for our digression...back to oil.

It can be very slippery. That's about all I know about it.
Ossessionato
Scarabeo 500GT(hers), `07 250 MP3, `09 400 MP3
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 2176
Location: Kingman, Az.
Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:56 pm quote
It can be very slippery. That's about all I know about it. [/quote]




Whether it's dino or syn. oil.
Molto Verboso
NC700XD
Joined: 28 Dec 2009
Posts: 1372
Location: Richmond, VA
Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:54 pm quote
Ossessionato
MP3 400 / BV200
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 3012
Location: San Diego, California
Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:15 pm quote
An oil discussion that's causing alot of fiction (yes that is the word I wanted)
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