First time carb clean/rebuild: is this normal (photos)?
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Hooked
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 210

Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:04 am quote
I bought a P200E a while ago and am trying to get it running well and on the road. I did get it started for a minute but it bogged like hell and wouldn't stay running. The place to start is a carb clean/rebuild, right? I've already purchased a rebuild kit and am waiting for delivery.

First thing I noticed upon taking apart the carb is that the fuel filter looks warped and doesn't seem to stay seated correctly:



Second thing I noticed is that there was a lot of crud in the mixture chamber. There was actually quite a bit more in there than the photos indicate, but it was accidentally blown away before the photos were taken. Even still, it seems like a lot to me - but I don't have anything to compare it to. Normal? What the hell is it, anyway?

Scooter Mercato's nice carb rebuild tutorial says to "soak" the carb, but I get the impression that a lot of people just spray it. Opinions?



Mr. Clean
P,SUPER,V90,Serveta Jet2Project
Joined: 27 Jul 2010
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Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:10 am quote
No that's not normal... where did they ride that bike? or have it buried?
Pull the whole carb apart... all of it, clean the hell out of it. check, clean or replace you fuel lines. you may need new jets... (looks a the holes, see if they're mangled) check clean the tank, fuel tap... all for starters.
Ossessionato
ET2, PX150
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
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Location: Denver CO
Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:14 am quote
Not normal...not at all. Did they try running it on sawdust? I'd soak that, spraying isnt going to cut it on this one. I'd replace the jets, chances are they are not coming clean.
Hooked
1966 Bajaj 150
Joined: 24 Jun 2010
Posts: 469
Location: New York, NY
Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:32 am quote
Get a bucket of carb cleaner from the auto store.

It has a drain sieve that you place your dismantled carb in. Soak overnight and then clean with a spray carb cleaner. It will be as good as new.
Banned
'80 p200 '63 li190
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
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Location: Philadelphia & Brooklyn
Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:39 am quote
a spray can and a tupperwear container will do. 16 oz or so, a standard size can.
Hooked
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 210

Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:20 am quote
Thanks for the replies

The funny thing is that the scooter seems very clean overall and has low mileage (<3000). In particular, the rest of the carb doesn't seem very dirty.
Mr. Clean
P,SUPER,V90,Serveta Jet2Project
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Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:24 am quote
You may want to drain the oil, and see what it looks like too... make sure no termites got in the motor Fresh case oil always good.
Addicted
1980 P200e, 1956 ACMA, 1979 P200e, 1974 Ciao
Joined: 04 Jun 2009
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Location: Ithaca, NY
Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:39 am quote
One other suggestion. Buy a can of carb cleaner and put on the little red straw thingie. Take your carb and blast that straw into the holes in the carburetor for the jets, and in the bottom of the float bowl. That will help dislodge any other sand that might have gotten in there.

I had intermittent problems on one of my bikes, and my jets kept getting sediment in them. Finally, I blasted everything out with that technique, and the problems went away. That sediment can collect in odd places.

Hojo
Addicted
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Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:15 pm quote
What hojo said. Blasting with the red straw lets you actually see that the passageways are open. Remove the jets and the idle mixture screw. Blast away.

Just beside the front screw that holds the float assembly down, underneath the float assembly, is a hole that allows the float chamber to breathe. That hole goes down through a small projection cast onto the carb body. The projection (nipple) fits into a hole. The nipple is supposed to have a rubber sealing washer on it. That hole may be stopped up by insects or whatnot. When you remove the carb, check those areas.

Shine a light down into the hole under the seat. My last prize was completely stuffed with acorn remains. Varmits aslo love to gnaw away wire insulation. Make sure nothing is behind the cylinder shroud or in the fins to limit airflow.

Dry particles are better than gunked up crud.

Sounds like a good find! Pictures of this low mileage jewel are expected.
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'79 P200
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Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:03 pm quote
Damn! Would that come from someone dumping sand or something in the tank? Jilted lover perhaps?
Ossessionato
ET2, PX150
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Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:05 pm quote
poor bike has kidney stones...
Addicted
PX 200 E 'Iris' edition
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Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:46 am quote
that is a lot of crud.

i cleaned out my carb last night and in that same bowl I found a lot of crap...I'm glad I opened it up.

the next step for me is the fuel tap and tank, and fuel line too.
Addicted
PX 200 E 'Iris' edition
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Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:06 am quote
Here's all the crap that was in mine last night:


Molto Verboso
BV200, P200E (2),V90
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Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:01 am quote
I would suggest that if you spray clean it, wear safety glasses or turn your head away from the action. I learned the hard way.
Hooked
'67 Vespa 150 Sprint, '56 Vespa 150 (project)
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Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:31 am quote
I'll second the safety goggles with the carb cleaner. Trust me when I say that carb cleaner to the eye is a punishment worse than most self inflicted injuries.
Addicted
PX 200 E 'Iris' edition
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Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:28 pm quote
Absolutely right, especially with the use of the straw!
Goggles are a must.
Ossessionato
1970 Vespa Rally 180
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Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:49 pm quote
read the directions, is it so hard to do?

reminds me of the guy that used brake cleaner right before some welding and the fumes damn near killed him.
Hooked
'67 Vespa 150 Sprint, '56 Vespa 150 (project)
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Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:18 pm quote
One other thing that I do is soak any carb parts in Simple Green overnight. The next day, I pour out the Simple Green, scrub any gunk with an old toothbrush, rinse with Simple Green, spray out with air compressor, goggles, carb cleaner, air compressor again and reassemble.
Enthusiast
1966 Vespa 180SS
Joined: 08 Feb 2009
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Location: Titusvill Fl
Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:19 pm quote
Fuel Tank
Hey pale you better get that fuel tank cleaned professionally and add another fuel filter inline for a little while. These carb are real simple to work on just make sure that they seated properly and they are the right size Scooter help can give you that information Good luck EDM
Ossessionato
1970 Vespa Rally 180
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Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:29 pm quote
an in-line fuel filter is a bad idea and redundant.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:51 am quote
jamesjohn wrote:
an in-line fuel filter is a bad idea and redundant.
an inline fuel filter can help stop debris from getting to the carb. there by lessening the need to tear apart the carb for cleaning. Get a clear filter so you can see when it needs to be cleaned.
Addicted
PX 200 E 'Iris' edition
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Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:54 pm quote
I happened to find a lot of black bits from the coating of my gas tank's outside.

It seems the black paint around the filler cap opening somehow got into the tank. Now that my engine is getting professional attention (dropped it off at a shop today ) I will be cleaning the tank and fuel tap since what I saw in the carb was not too pretty.


The clear in-line filters do not to anything to slow down the fuel flow to the carb when twisting throttle all the way?

I placed one in the fuel line of the '72 BMW but that car (like all/most) has a fuel pump.
Molto Verboso
BV200, P200E (2),V90
Joined: 07 Aug 2010
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Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:18 pm quote
I tried an inline fuel filter on my P2, but it causes a lean wide open throttle. The good people here steered me in the right direction. No filter, a 24 " fuel line and it's been all good since. I'm told the extra length allows sediments to settle at the bottom of the hose and never reach the carb. Just have to pull the tank and blow it out every now and then. I was lucky in scoring a brand new Stella tank. Now and then I pull the carb filter and it's always spotless. In short, a clean tank and proper length fuel line made my bike run as it was meant to.
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GRAPHITE LX 150
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Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:01 pm quote
Looks fine to me!
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63 Lambretta LI 125 seies 3, 71 Sprint Veloce , 2005 Vespa PX150, 1979 P200E(times two)
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Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:05 pm quote
That is how my car air filters look like here in Tucson during the summer sand /dust storms, fine dust. I just don't know how that fine dust/dirt got into the fuel system though. You would expect that on the carb air filter but certainly not on the fuel line filter.
Addicted
Joined: 31 May 2009
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Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:21 am quote
blackbart wrote:
Just beside the front screw that holds the float assembly down, underneath the float assembly, is a hole that allows the float chamber to breathe. That hole goes down through a small projection cast onto the carb body. The projection (nipple) fits into a hole. The nipple is supposed to have a rubber sealing washer on it. That hole may be stopped up by insects or whatnot.
The float chamber breather hole mentioned above is unfiltered and air or air mixed with whatever in the little well underneath the carb can pass through that passage and wind up in the float assembly with the fuel. The outside air (and possibly stuff with it) enters underneath the fuel filter and can pass unfiltered into the carb. Flip the float assembly upside down and you can see it. The rubber sealing washer helps keep debris out of the little well.

Having experienced Tucson dust storms, that stuff can invade most everything. Really nice is when it starts raining during one, becomes mud and people forget and turn their wipers on and destroy a windshield.
Moderator
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty"
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Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:27 am quote
tommylittlescooter wrote:
I tried an inline fuel filter on my P2, but it causes a lean wide open throttle. The good people here steered me in the right direction. No filter, a 24 " fuel line and it's been all good since.
Yes. Inline filter sounds great, but it's kind of a weak gravity-fed system. It needs to flow easy to run propery, and the inline filter doesn't really fit the bill on these machines.
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