Modern Vespa

Hello all. I just inherited a 2002 Vespa ET2 50. I am interested in learning how to fix it and using it for light rides around town. Cosmetically speaking is it in beautiful shape. It has been sitting outside for 4 or 5 years covered with a tarp. I am in the process of taking it apart. This is what I have so far:

1)Carburetor has to be cleaned. Maybe replaced. Will try to clean it best I can and give it a try.

2)Upon arrival, the kickstarter pedal was not moving. I discovered that the piston was stuck. I have managed to take out the piston and all seems to be moving. Want to clean the piston and combustion chamber. What should I use?. Any tips?.

3)I found what looks like wet dirt in the crank shaft. I also want to clean this. I would prefer not to take the motor off and open the crank shaft if possible. This might be beyond my capabilities. Understand what needs to be done but lack the tools to do it (have watched videos online). Any recommends here?. Could it be cleaned with something?. I know it sounds crazy but something like a low pressure wash and then re-lubing it?.

I also have a Vespa dealer close by. I think if I have to go the route of taking it to the pros it will get too expensive and exceed the worth of the scooter. Opinions?. Any help would b appreciated. If anyone is near Greenwich, CT that might be able to give me some pointers in person, please allow me to buy you a beer and pick your brain. Thank you.

I'm not the one to be giving technical advice, but congratulations on your inheritance and welcome to MV!

Welcome to MV. I probably can't help much with your questions, but as it seems you have some mechanical skills, I would think you could bring it up to snuff on your own...and with a bit of help from the forum. Going to a dealer is going to cost you a bit, so depends on your priorities and cash available.

Cleaning the carburettor is almost a given, so good that you're on that. You should be changing out the rubber bits as well-tires, tubing as they're looong overdue. Brake fluid as well....

BTW, couldn't see your picture....not sure how you attached it, but if you go via the "Choose File" button on the page and the Add button, it should work.

Good luck!

Slugdy motor

Ewww! How does THAT happen?

water in the oil ?

Thank you all. Excited to find such a great forum. Not sure yet as to how to proceed with this "mud" in the crank shaft. Studying how to take the motor off. Easier access to the crank shaft might give me a better chance at cleaning without having to crack open the motor. All rubber seems to be in good shape. Tires look new. It only has 525 miles on it. Sorry about the attachment. Will try to figure out how to embed pictures in a post with the "img" button. Would that be better.

I've only seen something like that from an engine that's been submerged in a flood.

-Craig

From your description and the photo, I think this is very likely a flood victim. Do you know the history? The problem with just cleaning it out is that the bearings are very likely pitted from the moisture being trapped in the crank case for so long. You can clean out the gunk, but when you start to run the engine, there is a high likelyhood that the bearings will start to wear very quickly and fail.

If you do attempt to clean it out without disassembly, I would use kerosene. I would remove the oil pan first. Use a small submersible pump with a hose and try to capture/filter the kerosene as you spray it into the engine and let it flow back out. If you know someone who has a auto shop with a parts cleaner, take it there ... if they'll let you. It's going to munge up a bunch of cleaning fluid with all that mud.

-Craig

If you have the ability to remove the cylinder head to look inside the engine, you're more than capable of rebuilding the entire engine. My suggestion would be to remove the engine (only a few bolts), completely disassemble and inspect everything. Replace what's needed, and reassemble freshly lubed with all new gaskets. Remove the fuel tank, flush it out and replace the fuel/vacuum lines.

My guess is everything should clean up fine and you'll have a fun little scooter.

I was able to take the engine out. No problems. I carefully took as much of the dirt out and vacuumed 90% of it out. Before cleaning, the crankshaft was moist and everything moved smoothly. After cleaning, now everything looks cleaner but it is dry and harder to move. I like the kerosene idea and not afraid to take the whole crankshaft apart except I would need to get tools that would allow me to take some pieces out (I saw a YouTube video of someone doing this). It is easy to take things apart and understand what does what but now that I'm so deep into the rabbit's hole, I'm gettin worried that I will not remember how to put it together again. Here is a picture of the current state of things. What can I use to lubricate things a little until I can assemble everything again?.

You could try pouring Marvel Mystery Oil down there, and let it soak for a few days. But like Craig said above, the bearings are likely shot, and won't hold up for very long after reassembly. In your photo above, you can see the pitting on the connecting rod and crankshaft.

You've already gotten pretty far with the engine removal and disassembly. At this point, there's not much more damage that can be done by taking it further and splitting the case open.

Alternatively, used 50cc leader engines are pretty inexpensive on eBay. Might want to consider that route. Good luck!

I would say at this point it would be silly not to completely disassemble the engine for a thorough cleaning. I've never rebuilt a 2 cycle, so I don't know what to use for assembly lube, but I'm sure that answer is a quick Google search away. And as long as you have it this far apart, why not spring for a big bore kit to replace the entire upper end, and end up with a lot more power?

https://scooterpartsco.com/et2/et2-performance/dr-racing-70cc-cylinder-kit-for-vespa-piaggio-2-stroke

Your wasting your time if you don;t put new bearing in. Water and oxygen kills bearing in 24 hours.
Use to work at a boat dealer, the rule is, if a motor goes under water in fresh water, leave it in the water till you can take it apart, because as soon as Oxygen gets to it the corrosion starts.
We would have motors show up in 55 gal barrels of water.

So your bearings are shot.

I vote new motor.

Does the wiring loom show signs of being flooded too?

Ditto, but it seems you're doing fine with the input you've received. Can't wait for your first ride report and pics!

I agree with WEB-Tech. Engine must be split open. Bearings, conrod or a complete crank need to be changed...

And if it is a flood vehicle ECU was under water and all the wiring connections.
Flood vehicles can be a nightmare to own.

Unless you are up to doing a total rebuild -bearings, new crank, seals, cylinder hone, new rings, carb rebuild/replace, starter motor rebuild/replace, etc.... you may be better off picking up a good donor engine. It also may be cheaper in the long run. Take a very good look at the rest of the before you start dropping too much coin. If it is a flood vehicle, it could turn into a money hole. Good luck.

I hear everyone I tend to agree but the engine, outside or elswhere inside does not seem to have signs of flooding. I was told by the previous owners that it never got submerged in water. It sat in a patio, covered, for a long time. Maybe snow accumulated and then melted?. The cover looks in bad shape because of exposure to the elements but it did provide some direct protection. So weird. The transmission side of the motor is impeccable and it is less sealed than the crank shaft cavity, no?.
I'm inclined to reassemble it and see if it starts.

Where can I start looking for used motors?. Any tips to know if I'm getting something decent?.

It looks slightly different but is this the engine I need?.

http://www.partsforscooters.com/Engine_4-stroke_qmb139


There is a short and long version. Only 1.25" difference in length and its hard to tell how to measure correctly.

Well, thats a 4 stroke, which is two more than you need.

Hoot!

Hahaha. Every day I learn something new. Duh!. Are new engines for my ET2 sold anywhere?. Will start looking for used ones too but my worries are that I won't know what I'm getting.

SaFis and WEB-Tech are right.

Whether it was in a flood or there was water in the oil doesn't matter.
(It certainly looks like a flood engine to me.)
You're wasting your time if you think you can just button it up and run it.

Thank you all. Heard you loud and clear. Will continue disassembling the motor and restoring it. I'm sure I will be back soon with more questions. Will replace bearings and also piston while I'm at it. Do you think it's worth replacing the crank (don't sure if that is what it is called)?. The part that the piston arm is attached to.

You don't need the first engine you google that looks about the same. You need a Vespa ET2 two stroke engine. But they are pretty cheap to rebuild. This should get you started.

Crank, bearings and seals $140.
https://scooterpartsco.com/et2/et2-engine/crankshaft-bearings-and-seals-for-vespa-et2-piaggio-2t

Cylinder, Piston and Rings $90
https://scooterpartsco.com/et2/et2-engine/stock-50cc-cylinder-kit-for-vespa-et2

70cc Malossi Cylinder, Piston and Rings $130
https://scooterpartsco.com/et2/et2-engine/malossi-70cc-cylinder-kit-vespa-piaggio-derbi

Also, your air cleaner is probably a bunch of lint balls, so get one of those while you are at it, as well as new fuel and vacuum lines, and anything else that looks bad. I would leave the transmission alone if it's clean and dry, but do drain and refill the Final Drive. Look for signs of water. If you have a Weber carburetor, it's not a question of if, but when, you will need to replace it.

https://scooterpartsco.com/et2/et2-air-fuel/vespa-et2-12mm-carburetor

Our new number is 843-402-6900, and we are usually there from 12-5 Tues-Fri, unless it's a holiday somewhere or the weather is really nice, so feel free to call if you have any questions.

Took the plunge and bought all parts to rebuild the engine. Will keep you posted. Thank you all for your help. Hopefully will be riding soon.

Last edited by Pinkscooter on Sat, 09 Feb 2019 05:16:16 +0000; edited 1 time

It's been hours. How's it run?

We require lots of photos, what color is your new baby? Ya, I know, that's such a 'girly' question to ask, and of course my next question is have you named 'her' yet? Good Luck, looks like she's now in good hands. You have a lot of great help and some mouth/lip here, mostly we are nice but some days we get lippy. And if You only have 1 Key, Maggie says to Get Backup Keys Made!

I have nor split the engine as I'm waiting for parts and tools to arrive. Maybe next week?. I only have one ket so thank you Maggie, will follow your advice. Will start posting pictures of progress soon. Anyone in lower Connecticut?. Would love to meet a local group of riders.

We have not named her yet! I had not thought about it. Such a good task to think of.

I have been trying to post some links to some good information on how to split cases and put it all back together but they don't seem to go through.

Here is a link on case splitting: http://49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/351
Here is a link on installing your crankshaft: http://49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/1225

I have used both methods several times and they work well. Keep us posted on how this goes for you.

Welcome.
I'm late to this thread. I though I'd tell you that early in my mechanical experience, I split the engine of a Yamaha SR500, TWICE! I did it without the help of a forum like MV or any other outside help.
Your restoration should be a piece of cake with the wealth of information on this forum.

Today I received the parts that I ordered to begin my rebuild. A new crankshaft and bearings, a new carburetor and a new piston. I started disassembling the motor to run into a problem very shortly after starting. I can't seem to be able to take the nuts off from these parts as they turn. I know this will be something extremely obvious but I'd like to point out that this is the first time ever that I tackle taking apart a motor and I'm solving things as I encounter problems. I'm assuming that I need a special tool to hold things from spinning to get the nut loose, right?. Is there a generic way of doing it?. Thanks all.

Use this tool to lock the variator. That should also lock the flywheel nut. There's a separate tool to remove the clutch and bell, but if you're not replacing parts back there, you shouldn't need to remove that.

https://scooterpartsco.com/lx-50/lx-50-tools-and-repair/variator-tool-for-vespa-piaggio-aprilia-50?zenid=4470efbf2d9f4eb4fb89dba3ffaa1d44

Yep as above buy that tool for the variator (front component).

Then wrap an old T shirt round the left hand grip and brake lever.
Then over the T shirt or rag use a couple of cable ties to apply the rear brake. This will lock the rear wheel allowing you to undo the clutch nut (rear component).

As above you don't need that rear part off to do the engine rebuild BUT if the engine bearings are mullered due to water then possibly the rear drive ones are shot too.....so worth a look.

PS if you do take the clutch off and then decide to strip that down you'll also need a clutch wrench to undo the large nut under the clutch bell you can't see yet.

Most auto part stores here loan tools for free (with refundable deposit). If auto part stores near you do the same, get a strap wrench to hold the flywheel to get the crank nut off.
You can also use a tool like this.
https://www.amazon.com/AutoRocking-Flywheel-Variator-Spanner-Motorcycle/dp/B07FY9HJGT/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1549802360&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=variator+tool&psc=1

But you have to be extra careful not to damage the stator windings with it.
You can see the copper windings I circled. Being a noobie, I suggest the strap wrench.