Electrics Massive Failure!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Hooked
PX200
Joined: 08 Apr 2014
Posts: 194
Location: Dublin
Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:00 pm quote
So... I got the bike at the weekend. I managed to run dow the battery immediately through my own stupidity.

I've run it off the kick start and trickle charged the battery today. IThe ignition is working again, but the electrics aren't: Speedo, lights indicators etc... Although the horn is.

Any ideas what I should be looking at? It's a PX200 disc.
Hooked
PX125E
Joined: 06 Oct 2018
Posts: 187
Location: Gravesend, Kent, UK
Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:06 pm quote
Electrics
Hello.
If you give us some more information about the scooter, what year etc. We can look up a wiring diagram. Once we have the same diagram, we can run through it with you.

My scooter is a 2012 PX125E. It has the most complicated wiring of the lot. I think it was designed by the Christmas tree light Faery.
Do you have a multi meter and do you know how to use it?

Already Iím suspicious. The ignition circuit is independent to the rest of the electrics. If everything was disconnected as in you were installing a new wiring loom. You should be able to connect the wires from the alternator to the coil and run the engine.
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2257
Location: Veria, Greece
Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:25 pm quote
I see Ireland/Dubai as your location, so I assume your PX is a European market model. Everything mentioned not working, runs on regulated 12V AC. I'd check the AC output on regulator for over-voltage (blue & grey)...
Hooked
PX200
Joined: 08 Apr 2014
Posts: 194
Location: Dublin
Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:31 pm quote
Re: Electrics
worrywort wrote:
Hello.
If you give us some more information about the scooter, what year etc. We can look up a wiring diagram. Once we have the same diagram, we can run through it with you.

My scooter is a 2012 PX125E. It has the most complicated wiring of the lot. I think it was designed by the Christmas tree light Faery.
Do you have a multi meter and do you know how to use it?

Already Iím suspicious. The ignition circuit is independent to the rest of the electrics. If everything was disconnected as in you were installing a new wiring loom. You should be able to connect the wires from the alternator to the coil and run the engine.
The bike is a 2002 PX200 Disc MY model, European.

I was planning to go to a motor factors and pick up some fuses. It's probably worth changing them all anyway after 20 years. I just picked up the bike last weekend.

I do not possess a multimeter, nor have I ever used one. But I understand the basic principle.

Last edited by bluefoam on Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
Hooked
PX200
Joined: 08 Apr 2014
Posts: 194
Location: Dublin
Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:33 pm quote
SaFiS wrote:
I see Ireland/Dubai as your location, so I assume your PX is a European market model. Everything mentioned not working, runs on regulated 12V AC. I'd check the AC output on regulator for over-voltage (blue & grey)...
Thanks, I have no idea what A/C output or blue grey are, but I'm willing to poke around and find out. & Years, you are right... Lived in Dubai when I joined the forum, now back in Dublin.
Ossessionato
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 86 & 96 Elite 80s, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3940
Location: Oceanside, CA
Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:29 pm quote
At the top of your engine is a black plastic box (the size of a match box). Unscrew it and open it up. You'll see two sets of white plastic connectors. Focus on the round one with the blue and black wires. See if those are connected, tight and clean. If you see if black/ dirty/ disconnected etc. that could be your problem and report back.
Hooked
PX125E
Joined: 06 Oct 2018
Posts: 187
Location: Gravesend, Kent, UK
Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:09 pm quote
You really need a multimeter. Can you borrow one or buy a cheap one?
I have found a diagram in my Haynes manual. Thereís a lot of wires there. So get a nice big note pad and a pen as well.
The idea is to carefully draw the individual circuit that your dealing with.
That way youíre only looking at one or two wires in amongst the mess. And you can see how the circuit works much more clearly.
Hooked
PX200
Joined: 08 Apr 2014
Posts: 194
Location: Dublin
Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:46 am quote
Thanks for all the help so far... Unfortunately work expect me to dedicate time to them... Something to do with them giving me money... So I haven't had time to scope out the problem. I had the battery on trickle charge at the begining of the week. But the battery is dead again. I'm guessing a new battery might be needed.

I'll pick up a multimeter in the morning and have a look to see what I can find in the black box.
Hooked
61 VBB and 79 P200
Joined: 01 Jan 2018
Posts: 130
Location: Folsom CA
Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:50 pm quote
While you work on this issue of correct wire routing, I'd suggest you disconnect the negative wire on the battery. I learned from my automotive repair days that this prevents drainng the battery while you figure out the correct wiring.
Hooked
PX200
Joined: 08 Apr 2014
Posts: 194
Location: Dublin
Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:05 am quote
Hi guys. I own a multimeter now... No idea how to use it. Id be grateful if you could let me know:

Do I set it to 20 (as picture)?
Do I run the motor on the bike as I use it?
Should the battery be disconnected or connected?

Thanks... Fun with Vespa's 😀



Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2257
Location: Veria, Greece
Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:31 am quote
If youíre going to measure the DC output on the battery terminals, yes, you are correct. If youíre going to measure the AC output (the one that powers the lights & indicators) of the regulator (its behind the battery tray), you need to go to AC (photo). Measure blue to ground and grey to ground. Max reading should be ~13,5V while revving. If itís more, then the regulator is dead and has blown up your bulbs and probably the turn signal relay which is usually the first to go (green box next to the regulator)...



Hooked
PX200
Joined: 08 Apr 2014
Posts: 194
Location: Dublin
Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:33 am quote
I'm getting 13 off the battery, but there's no power to the electric start at all.

Inside the little blue cover at the back I'm getting 5.0 - 6.5v between red and green wires.



Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1660
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Hooked
PX200
Joined: 08 Apr 2014
Posts: 194
Location: Dublin
Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:36 am quote
SaFiS wrote:
If youíre going to measure the DC output on the battery terminals, yes, you are correct. If youíre going to measure the AC output (the one that powers the lights & indicators) of the regulator (its behind the battery tray), you need to go to AC (photo). Measure blue to ground and grey to ground. Max reading should be ~13,5V while revving. If itís more, then the regulator is dead and has blown up your bulbs and probably the turn signal relay which is usually the first to go (green box next to the regulator)...
Thank you, this got me started. Also I tried the two loose cables in the glove box ( the ones for the indicator buzzer, there was nothing reading there at all.
Hooked
PX200
Joined: 08 Apr 2014
Posts: 194
Location: Dublin
Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:51 am quote
Deleted post...

Last edited by bluefoam on Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:29 am; edited 1 time in total
Hooked
PX200
Joined: 08 Apr 2014
Posts: 194
Location: Dublin
Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:09 am quote
Thank you all very much.

I opened the black box on the left hand side and found the lose connection. I now have power to the lights, Speedo and indicators and the bike is starting off the electric start.

I really do appreciate all the support, wouldn't have had the confidence to get it sorted otherwise.
Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 4027
Location: That bushfire place
Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:59 am quote
"massive"
If there no smoke/flames, it aint "massive"
Hooked
PX200
Joined: 08 Apr 2014
Posts: 194
Location: Dublin
Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:57 am quote
Re: "massive"
SubEtherBASS wrote:
If there no smoke/flames, it aint "massive"
That may have been a wee exaggeration...
Hooked
PX200
Joined: 08 Apr 2014
Posts: 194
Location: Dublin
Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:19 am quote
Ah Jaysus...

Here we go again... This morning,the lights and indicators are still working, but the starter and speedo are not. I checked the connections in the little black box again and they are connected and the battery is still giving out 13v...

The starter isn't even giving the slightest bit of juice... She's still working off the kick though.
Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 4027
Location: That bushfire place
Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:06 am quote
Re: "massive"
bluefoam wrote:
SubEtherBASS wrote:
If there no smoke/flames, it aint "massive"
That may have been a wee exaggeration...
If it aint a smokin, it aint a brokin
Hooked
PX200
Joined: 08 Apr 2014
Posts: 194
Location: Dublin
Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:36 am quote
Hi guys, I have arbitrarily decided to separate this issue into two component parts...

I've ordered a new speedo cable and little gear thingy to try to resolve the speedo issues... The rest of the functions seem to work, so it's possibly not related to the electrical stuff, worth a try...

For the starting issues... I have a big spanner to give the starter motor a bit of a knock to wake it up.

If neither of the above work, I'll just give up and put the Vespa in the bin.
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2962
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:40 am quote
Instead of the bin, you can ship it to me

speedo gear.. no electrics controlling the actual speedometer functionality. Just that gear and cable.

starter motor broken. ignore it and use the kick start.

problems solved.
Hooked
PX200
Joined: 08 Apr 2014
Posts: 194
Location: Dublin
Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:50 am quote
Kick start does look cooler!
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1660
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:57 am quote
For the starter motor, try measuring the voltage at the starter power terminal.

Set your meter to its lowest resistance setting, touch your leads together and verify proper operation. You should get something close to "0", 1 ohm or less depending on meter quality etc. If this doesn't work figure out why or your just wasting your time.

Use the direct current voltage setting on your meter at 20 VDC.

Connect the ground wire or black wire to the frame or negative on the battery.

Touch the red wire to the battery positive it should read battery voltage, if you have a good ground. If you don't try again until you know it's good.

Connect the positive wire or red wire to the power terminal of the starter and press the start button.

You should see battery voltage ~12 VDC when pressing the button. If you do the starter motor has quit, if you don't the next step is checking the starter relay.

Do you have to have the clutch lever pulled in on your scooter for the starter to work? Did you have it pulled in?


https://www.howtogeek.com/318722/how-to-use-a-multimeter/#:~:text=In%20any%20case%2C%20here's%20a,denoted%20with%20a%20V~%20instead.
Hooked
PX200
Joined: 08 Apr 2014
Posts: 194
Location: Dublin
Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:29 am quote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
Do you have to have the clutch lever pulled in on your scooter for the starter to work? Did you have it pulled in?
Yes & yes...

Thanks, this is really helpful! I'll give it a go.
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1660
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:42 am quote
About a 1/4 way down this page there is a picture with wiring that shows what your trying to measure and verify operation of. Ignore the ignition coil for this project.

https://startersolenoid.net/starter-relay/
Hooked
PX200
Joined: 08 Apr 2014
Posts: 194
Location: Dublin
Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:10 am quote
I'm a feckin'genius or possibly a mechanical god...

Electric start is now working, don't ask me how, just did some exploring and managed to fix the connection.

Speedo cable arrives in the next couple of days... After that, I'm clear (of all the current issues) 😃

Who knew Vespa's could be so much fun!
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2962
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:47 am quote
It's only just begun. Get comfortable. There will be more to follow!
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