Rear wheel lock up shifting into gear
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Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2752
Location: London UK
Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:13 am quote
If the clutch and primary check out I would ride it carefully for a while. If something metal loose in there the gearbox might eat it.
Hooked
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 275

Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:31 pm quote
Iím thinking of splitting the cases, waiting for gaskets and some other parts to arrive...

Iíll take out the base gasket and Iím thinking to extend the exhaust port to 195 deg

A decent number to aim for? Or something more conservative like 190?
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2752
Location: London UK
Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:55 pm quote
I would set up the port timing you have first. Then decide what you want more or less of. If your going to put in a primary less than 65 it will limit your options.
182 is a little low for your Newline but the 130 is ok. Won't know until the carb is set and a few GSFdyno runs are done.
Hooked
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 275

Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:25 am quote
Jack221 wrote:
I would set up the port timing you have first. Then decide what you want more or less of. If your going to put in a primary less than 65 it will limit your options.
182 is a little low for your Newline but the 130 is ok. Won't know until the carb is set and a few GSFdyno runs are done.
I do think 182 is a little pedestrian... Iíve pulled off the cylinder (preparing for splitting the cases) and seeing if I could see any problems with the primary... seems like thereís nothing too obvious...

So Iím thinking of grinding the exhaust port to 195

Had a bit of a fish around with the magnetic rod... couldnít find anything

The clutch plates had some weird chips though... I canít remember those being there when I installed the clutch... the CR80 plates are pretty tough... so must be something even tougher to put those marks there...

But I think I might have found a potential culprit to the problems... The helical teeth on the clutch seem pretty worn... 1-2 of the teeth seem pretty thin... slipped and jammed in the primary?











Last edited by 108 on Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:05 am; edited 2 times in total
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2973
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:09 am quote
Bgm super strong clutch? Fmp did a video on that thin tooth problem with their clutches last year.

When i ordered mine from Jonathan Gick, he had it freeze treated to add some strength to it. Haven't pulled out yet to see if that helped prevent wear.
Hooked
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 275

Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:47 am quote
swiss1939 wrote:
Bgm super strong clutch? Fmp did a video on that thin tooth problem with their clutches last year.

When i ordered mine from Jonathan Gick, he had it freeze treated to add some strength to it. Haven't pulled out yet to see if that helped prevent wear.
No, itís the SIP COSA 2 Race clutch basket... sold separately

Itís pretty old and it seems like one of the first reinforced clutch baskets available before all the new CNC clutches that have come out now...

Itís super tough but itís the teeth which engages the primary which seem worn... but maybe not enough to slip and lock though...
Hooked
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 275

Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:09 am quote
The teeth on the metal clutch plates seem pretty worn too...

Thereís quite a bit of play before the primary engages because of the gap worn into the plate, when I was testing the spinning of the clutch with the clutch tool.

Doubt itís the cause of the lock up, but looks like Iíll be replacing them soon...





Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2752
Location: London UK
Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:33 am quote
They look like different cogs is one a 23 and the other a 24?

Plain plate teeth wearing like that is the usual. CR 80 plates fix the outside tab wear but nothing new for the plain plates yet.
Hooked
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 275

Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:09 am quote
Jack221 wrote:
They look like different cogs is one a 23 and the other a 24?

Plain plate teeth wearing like that is the usual. CR 80 plates fix the outside tab wear but nothing new for the plain plates yet.
Both 23 teeth, but one is 40mm and the other 42mm just for comparison of similar sized teeth... (40mm for a 68 teeth primary...)

Yeah, seems like no new developments for the plain plates... had some BGM plates which seemed harder... but none of the 4 plates were flat... all had waves in them...
Ossessionato
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 86 & 96 Elite 80s, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3943
Location: Oceanside, CA
Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:12 pm quote
Good find on the clutch wear but with it out, spin the rear tire and shift through every gear. Do you hear anything grinding? Anything tighter than the others? Anything shiny in the gear oil? Any aha moments?
Hooked
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 275

Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:21 pm quote
MJRally wrote:
Good find on the clutch wear but with it out, spin the rear tire and shift through every gear. Do you hear anything grinding? Anything tighter than the others? Anything shiny in the gear oil? Any aha moments?
Yeah, went through the gears with the rear wheel in the air...

Found nothing... had a small mirror on a rod, down the primary area, still didnít see any missing teeth...

But Iím still betting on something loose inside...

Something I did note I forgot to mention, is that the primary seemed to have a bit of play on its spindle... worn bearings I think... wonder if itís enough for it to get jammed...?
Ossessionato
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 86 & 96 Elite 80s, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3943
Location: Oceanside, CA
Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:35 pm quote
Is your primary/ Cush drive spindle secured with a captive washer, a washer and then the nut? Is it currently tight?

Did you replace the primary gear bearing lately? Remember the circlip that holds it in?
Hooked
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 275

Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:04 pm quote
MJRally wrote:
Is your primary/ Cush drive spindle secured with a captive washer, a washer and then the nut? Is it currently tight?

Did you replace the primary gear bearing lately? Remember the circlip that holds it in?
Yeah, everything has been buttoned up to spec...

All parts present, tightened to the right torque value... maybe its just worn, its a used part... will take it off to inspect...
Hooked
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 275

Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:07 am quote
Picking this back up...

Parts arrived from SIP...

Opened the engine... couldnít find anything inside... I was hoping to find missing teeth... but nothing...

The primary is a little swollen, the bearing has some play in it but no chunks missing, a bit disappointed to be honest... Iím going to take the output shaft apart and see if thereís anything there

But decided to go all out and get the KR automation gear selector and swap it out... itís pretty robust, the dog teeth is a new laser cut part and the tolerances are tight... wonder how long itíll last... not sure itís worth the asking price at the moment... will see



Hooked
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 275

Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:14 am quote
Small update on the output shaft

Which had some pretty bad wear... the gears, horizontal and diagonal free play... circlip/shim gap definitely not to spec ( 0.5mm? Canít remember if itís that...)

not sure if it was enough to lock up the primary, but swapped it all out with a drt set from another engine...

Letís see!
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