Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:10 pm

Enthusiast
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 60

 
Enthusiast
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 60

Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:10 pm linkquote
I'm about to throw the hammer..... actually already did. I've removed everything that was necessary and watch a few videos saying all I had to do is pry it out. This thing is not prying at all whatsoever. What gives? I might have already caused damage being so frustrated...



Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:16 pm

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3162
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3162
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:16 pm linkquote
looks like you already removed the clutch basket, and left all the other clutch parts! It takes some skill to do that...

Possibly your woodruff key jammed half in/half out the slot for it in the clutch baseplate? Either that or the metal seized stuck together from being dry/rusty for too long? Penetrating oil and heat in that case?

I'm just taking wild guesses here though..
Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:16 pm

Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1740
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1740
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:16 pm linkquote
Isn't there a circlip that holds the entire unit together? That is impressive!


http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Clutch-Misc-Parts/38477
Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:59 pm

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5913
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5913
Location: So Cal
Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:59 pm linkquote
Know how you feel. Was this very situation when my clutch basket exploded. Took hours to pry off. Take a deep breath. Get two big screwdrivers and a can of PB Blaster and start leveraging, slow and steady, round and round.
Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:26 pm

Enthusiast
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 60

 
Enthusiast
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 60

Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:26 pm linkquote
Yeah I managed to pop the ring from the other side of the basket by prying so many different times/ways on the back side that it eventually just popped out on its own. I just cannot believe how one project could throw so many curveballs. I've had full car rebuilds be less painful than this! I guess more cussing and chaos will continue tomorrow. Only reason I even opened up the clutch was to see if the plates had become stuck together. The bike would lurch hard and die upon putting it into gear, lead me to believe something in the clutch itself was wrong and not something I could correct by using the adjuster. Let me know if that sounds right? Thanks for the responses so far!
Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:54 pm

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2811
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2811
Location: London UK
Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:54 pm linkquote
Further confirming, there is no doubt Vespa's are female. That clutch is and old style 6 spring. Is the worst type and looks heavily worn. By the time you get it out, probably even worse. I would get a whole new Cosa clutch.
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/clutch-ferodo-cosa-2-standard_93030000
While buying a whole clutch you have the opportunity to change the cog size, which we all do.
Three leg puller will have that off in a minute.
Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:17 pm

Hooked
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 285

 
Hooked
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 285

Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:17 pm linkquote
Yeah I’d have a bearing puller on that... the plates will be scrap...
Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:24 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8895
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8895
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:24 pm linkquote
as said above, two big ass screwdrivers and just levering it out side to side slow and steady. maybe add a little heat to it for good measure.

or a three jaw puller would most likely grab and make short work.

you could also try some sharp blows with a hammer to the crank snout and it might free it up, or assist in getting it off.

either way, protect the thread on the end with the nut!

all that clutch stuff is trash. expect to get a new one, complete.

-g
Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:55 pm

Enthusiast
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 60

 
Enthusiast
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 60

Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:55 pm linkquote
I definitely own a three jaw puller and will give it the once over. Just wanted to ask again, so The bike would lurch hard and die upon putting it into gear even with the clutch lever pulled in. This lead me to believe something in the clutch itself was wrong and not something I could correct by using the adjuster. Let me know if that sounds right?
Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:32 am

Hooked
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 285

 
Hooked
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 285

Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:32 am linkquote
areabaylove wrote:
I definitely own a three jaw puller and will give it the once over. Just wanted to ask again, so The bike would lurch hard and die upon putting it into gear even with the clutch lever pulled in. This lead me to believe something in the clutch itself was wrong and not something I could correct by using the adjuster. Let me know if that sounds right?
Sounds like the clutch has had it...

Had the same problem before... would lurch like it has a turbo...

The clutch basket, brass race and plates were all gone... no adjusting would save it... you need a new clutch... a stock cosa 2 is cheap enough...
Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:37 am

Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1298
Location: California
 
Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1298
Location: California
Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:37 am linkquote
Jack221 wrote:
Further confirming, there is no doubt Vespa's are female.
damn should have known
Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:26 am

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5913
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5913
Location: So Cal
Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:26 am linkquote
BGM sells a nice little clutch puller ... small and simple and it works. You can make something similar by welding a thick washer to a nut and grinding it to shape. It won’t help you this time because the basket’s off, but it’s a good little tool to have for stubborn clutches.



Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:12 pm

Addicted
Old douglas ..smallie with polini 115..super with nasco 177
Joined: 07 Nov 2013
Posts: 643
Location: New Zealand
 
Addicted
Old douglas ..smallie with polini 115..super with nasco 177
Joined: 07 Nov 2013
Posts: 643
Location: New Zealand
Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:12 pm linkquote
Put some kind of packing under all the clutch parts and tap tap tap on the crank (with its nut on)..there should be enough end float in the crank to get some movement.....other wise ..agree with SoCal..two big screw drivers oppposite each other and lever/wiggle/work your way slowly around. The main idea is to apply leverage to two sides evenly at the same time so the clutch parts are drawn off level
good luck
Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:19 pm

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2314
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2314
Location: california
Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:19 pm linkquote
How about sliding a couple of these under ea. side - then inflating?
If you can get them fully underneath - it might work - and you need them around the house anyway - you just don't know it yet.
Bonus - come with spoons you can use to help pry without damage to cases

https://www.amazon.com/Commercial-Alignment-Leveling-Inflatable-Rectangle/dp/B08LDNY3MB/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=small+air+shim&qid=1618366538&s=hi&sr=1-6



Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:24 pm

Enthusiast
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 60

 
Enthusiast
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 60

Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:24 pm linkquote
Wow so many great ideas here!! Thank you to all! I tried some big ol levers and I couldn't tell for sure if it had moved much. I'll try the 3 arm puller tomorrow as I didnt have access. If the puller fails will I then have to resort to cutting it off? Funny thing is I had the same issue on the other side of the engine with the flywheel and In that situation I had to cut it off but I went just a hair to deep into the crank itself; which opened another can of worms. Like i said I've never had a project test me on so many levels; truly insane!
Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:50 am

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8895
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8895
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:50 am linkquote
if you've already cut the crank it's trash.

beat the ever loving fuck out of it to get the drive plate off, then split the cases and replace all the bits.
Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:06 am

Hooked
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 285

 
Hooked
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 285

Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:06 am linkquote
Is the cut crank in another post where the woodruff key is shearing?

I’d replace the crank and save yourself some grief...

Removing the flywheel with the right tools and heat shouldn’t be a problem... the construction is pretty basic and the torque values are pretty low...
Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:26 am

Addicted
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '66 Allstate SF, '65 VBB, '66 180SS
Joined: 27 Mar 2013
Posts: 880
Location: S.Salem, NY
 
Addicted
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '66 Allstate SF, '65 VBB, '66 180SS
Joined: 27 Mar 2013
Posts: 880
Location: S.Salem, NY
Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:26 am linkquote
Hey CM, I had no idea that I needed that air shim kit. Thanks !
Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:10 am

Hooked
P Series / Li / LML / Motobi
Joined: 24 Jun 2019
Posts: 454
Location: UK - 3rd Rock From the Sun
 
Hooked
P Series / Li / LML / Motobi
Joined: 24 Jun 2019
Posts: 454
Location: UK - 3rd Rock From the Sun
Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:10 am linkquote
two jaw puller i what i use when the clutch explodes like that and the thing is stuck fast

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=2+jaw+puller
Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:04 am

Enthusiast
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 60

 
Enthusiast
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 60

Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:04 am linkquote
108 wrote:
Is the cut crank in another post where the woodruff key is shearing?

I’d replace the crank and save yourself some grief...

Removing the flywheel with the right tools and heat shouldn’t be a problem... the construction is pretty basic and the torque values are pretty low...
Epic recall memory! I actually succeeded in fixing the cut crank when everyone else had doubted it ever being salvageable!
Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:23 am

Hooked
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 285

 
Hooked
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 285

Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:23 am linkquote
areabaylove wrote:
108 wrote:
Is the cut crank in another post where the woodruff key is shearing?

I’d replace the crank and save yourself some grief...

Removing the flywheel with the right tools and heat shouldn’t be a problem... the construction is pretty basic and the torque values are pretty low...
Epic recall memory! I actually succeeded in fixing the cut crank when everyone else had doubted it ever being salvageable!
Great you saved the crank! See if you can save the other side now...

But you shouldn’t need to cut the flywheel off... it’s only torque to something like 45ftlbs... so even if it was wonky and seized... the flywheel tool would make short work of it...
Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:27 am

Enthusiast
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 60

 
Enthusiast
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 60

Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:27 am linkquote
108 wrote:
areabaylove wrote:
108 wrote:
Is the cut crank in another post where the woodruff key is shearing?

I’d replace the crank and save yourself some grief...

Removing the flywheel with the right tools and heat shouldn’t be a problem... the construction is pretty basic and the torque values are pretty low...
Epic recall memory! I actually succeeded in fixing the cut crank when everyone else had doubted it ever being salvageable!
Great you saved the crank! See if you can save the other side now...

But you shouldn’t need to cut the flywheel off... it’s only torque to something like 45ftlbs... so even if it was wonky and seized... the flywheel tool would make short work of it...
The flywheel was the other mishap that caused the crank to get slightly cut. Now we're on the other side where the clutch is stuck and now it appears my only option is to cut that as well. I truly don't know how I'm even still passionate about this project and I feel most people would have thrown in the towel long time ago
Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:34 am

Enthusiast
Joined: 14 Jan 2018
Posts: 84
Location: no matter where you go, there you are
 
Enthusiast
Joined: 14 Jan 2018
Posts: 84
Location: no matter where you go, there you are
Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:34 am linkquote
V oodoo solution
Since the clutch is going to be replaced anyway... weld a nut on, pull with a long bolt.

Pics courtesy of V oodoo.





Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:39 am

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3306
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3306
Location: Nashville
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:39 am linkquote
areabaylove wrote:
I truly don't know how I'm even still passionate about this project and I feel most people would have thrown in the towel long time ago
Not this crowd. This isn't it even frustrating, just interesting to most of us. I mean, look at the mechanical mayhem in Today, I... or some of my or Charlieman's threads.
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:52 am

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3162
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3162
Location: Staten Island, NY
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:52 am linkquote
You start to get numb to all the frustration.. and find that you are too invested timewise to give up. And they you start to enjoy the speed bumps thrown at you.
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