Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:24 am

Member
ET4
Joined: 31 Oct 2017
Posts: 22
Location: Monmouth County, NJ
 
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ET4
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Location: Monmouth County, NJ
Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:24 am linkquote
2003 ET4
So it started as a standard belt change - bought the kit from ScooterWest - cleaned everything and changed the rollers, ramp glides, belt and lock nut. Put it all back together and started it only to hear a horrendous noise (recording available but I can not upload?).
Fast forward to multiple times pulling apart and putting back together including putting old parts back in and still....the same horrible noise - hard to tell where it is coming from.
For the moment, and while working on it only, we are using the same lock nut - have another on order but I can't believe all that noise could be coming from there.
Finally able to upload sound at: https://freesound.org/people/taralynnc/sounds/586845/
Does anyone see/hear anything we are missing?



















Last edited by taralynnc on Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:25 am

Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4863
Location: Tega Cay, SC
 
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:25 am linkquote
the nut holding the clutch on the shaft was on there before the first pic, right?
Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:57 am

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 40890
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 40890
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:57 am linkquote
Tierney wrote:
the nut holding the clutch on the shaft was on there before the first pic, right?
Better still by far - the transmission cover was back and buttoned up when you tried to run the engine?
Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:59 am

Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
Joined: 06 Jun 2013
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Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
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Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:59 am linkquote
Was the cover on the transmission?
Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:51 am

Member
ET4
Joined: 31 Oct 2017
Posts: 22
Location: Monmouth County, NJ
 
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ET4
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Location: Monmouth County, NJ
Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:51 am linkquote
Yes to all - everything was buttoned up for sure!
Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:24 pm

Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
Joined: 06 Jun 2013
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Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
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Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:24 pm linkquote
Maybe you can describe the noise. Rattling? Squeaking? Scraping? Squealing? Thumping? Clanking? …
High or low pitched?
…?

You're sure it isn't exhaust noise?
Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:48 pm

Member
ET4
Joined: 31 Oct 2017
Posts: 22
Location: Monmouth County, NJ
 
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ET4
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Location: Monmouth County, NJ
Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:48 pm linkquote
Sure - somewhat of a high pitched whine/screech. At first we thought grinding but no, sounds like a screech. Seems the same pitch as it is idling and while giving it gas - maybe a bit accelerated with gas. Should not be exhaust - didn't do a thing with that.

Last edited by taralynnc on Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:59 pm

Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Posts: 3644
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Posts: 3644
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:59 pm linkquote
When it's only idling, can you stop the rear wheel (if it's spinning)? So the final drive gears aren't turning — the whine isn't coming from there?

I can't see anything in the photos that looks wrong.
Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:03 pm

Member
ET4
Joined: 31 Oct 2017
Posts: 22
Location: Monmouth County, NJ
 
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ET4
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Location: Monmouth County, NJ
Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:03 pm linkquote
Thanks for the review - it is driving us crazy - have taken it apart and back together multiple times! Yes we can stop the wheel so the rear drive is not spinning and no, the noise is not coming from there.
Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:08 pm

Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Posts: 3644
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
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Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:08 pm linkquote
Well, I don't have an ET4 but it looks very similar to my Primavera and I don't see anything obviously out of place.
Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:10 pm

Member
ET4
Joined: 31 Oct 2017
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Location: Monmouth County, NJ
 
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ET4
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Location: Monmouth County, NJ
Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:10 pm linkquote
Thanks - yes, my husband has an LX and we did his belt literally 1 hour prior with no issues.
Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:13 pm

Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Posts: 3644
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
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Posts: 3644
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:13 pm linkquote
Are you getting the variator nut all the way on and torqued to spec? That can be a bit hard to do because the belt has to ride up the variator pulley a bit before the variator's tight.
Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:25 pm

Member
ET4
Joined: 31 Oct 2017
Posts: 22
Location: Monmouth County, NJ
 
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ET4
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Location: Monmouth County, NJ
Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:25 pm linkquote
Sure did - multiple times - 61 lbs ea time. I know it is a one time use but we've literally taken it apart so many times that we had to use the same nut until we are reasonably sure that all is OK. At first we thought maybe belt was pinched but have since ruled that out.
Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:28 pm

Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
Joined: 06 Jun 2013
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Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
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Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:28 pm linkquote
See any rubbing or scraping inside the cover?
Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:33 pm

Member
ET4
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Location: Monmouth County, NJ
 
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ET4
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Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:33 pm linkquote
negative
Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:46 pm

Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Posts: 3644
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
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Sun Sep 12, 2021 1:46 pm linkquote
That's all I can think of for now.
Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:01 pm

Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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Location: Tega Cay, SC
 
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4863
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:01 pm linkquote
This is a blind guess because it's been years since I owned a ET4. That model has a kick starter mounted to the cover, right? I had a couple problems with mine because a previous owner monkeyed around with it. I never could get the kick start to work right and it would occasionally hang up and scrape against the variator. I ended up just taking the whole kick starter mechanism out of the cover to solve the problem. Maybe that will work for you.
Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:35 pm

Member
ET4
Joined: 31 Oct 2017
Posts: 22
Location: Monmouth County, NJ
 
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ET4
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Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:35 pm linkquote
Thanks - it is a longshot but will give it a try - never use the kickstart anyway! I'll keep all updated.
Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:56 pm

Ossessionato
2006 Vespa GTS250ie, 2022 Royal Enfield Himalayan
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 2166
Location: Central Pennsylvania
 
Ossessionato
2006 Vespa GTS250ie, 2022 Royal Enfield Himalayan
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 2166
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:56 pm linkquote
I had a bad noise after changing the belt on my LX150. It ran but didn't sound right.

I caution you to stop riding until you are certain you reassembled everything correctly. I didn't and destroyed the spines on the crank and the variator. That was the end of that scooter lest I rebuild the engine. It was a sad day.

Here's a post with more details: https://scooterinthesticks.com/2007/01/non-riding-adventure/

And here's a picture of the variator after about 50 miles if I remember correctly.



Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:09 pm

Ossessionato
'70 Super 150, Aprilia SR MT 125, Moto Guzzi Bellagio
Joined: 22 Nov 2011
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Location: Sydney, Australia
 
Ossessionato
'70 Super 150, Aprilia SR MT 125, Moto Guzzi Bellagio
Joined: 22 Nov 2011
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Location: Sydney, Australia
Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:09 pm linkquote
Are there metal shavings in the bell housing splines or is that just grease? Hard to tell in the photo.
Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:36 pm

Ossessionato
2006 Vespa GTS250ie, 2022 Royal Enfield Himalayan
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 2166
Location: Central Pennsylvania
 
Ossessionato
2006 Vespa GTS250ie, 2022 Royal Enfield Himalayan
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Posts: 2166
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:36 pm linkquote
Bobo wrote:
Are there metal shavings in the bell housing or is that just grease? Hard to tell in the photo.
I wasn't there when the technician took it apart so I'm not sure what he saw. What I do remember was the sinking feeling I felt when he told me over the phone what had happened.

On the plus side, it gave me the opportunity to buy a GTS 250. My wife knew how stricken I was with the loss, and how much I loved that scooter. Bless her heart, she just said, "Buy another one."

And I did.

As much as she is uncomfortable with me riding, she still surprises me with her support. Like a couple of years ago she bought me a BMW K75 for my birthday.

I'm wondering now when she's going to surprise me with a Harley Davidson 883 Iron. I'm getting old fast and my potential Harley days are numbered!
Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:24 pm

Addicted
2007 GT200, 2008 Yamaha C3
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 828
Location: Denver
 
Addicted
2007 GT200, 2008 Yamaha C3
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 828
Location: Denver
Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:24 pm linkquote
That belt looks far out on the clutch pullies to me. Are you sure you tightened the outer variator plate onto the boss, and not the belt?
Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:22 pm

Enthusiast
Derbi Boulevard 125 4t
Joined: 05 Feb 2020
Posts: 82
Location: Lithuania
 
Enthusiast
Derbi Boulevard 125 4t
Joined: 05 Feb 2020
Posts: 82
Location: Lithuania
Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:22 pm linkquote
Abner_Bjorn wrote:
That belt looks far out on the clutch pullies to me. Are you sure you tightened the outer variator plate onto the boss, and not the belt?
For me belt looks sitting good.

Are all hoses connected? Air filter box is being moved when removing variator cover, so check if engine head vent and carburetor intake hoses are in palce.
Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:36 pm

Petty Tyrant
0:7
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 32715
Location: Bay Area, California
 
Petty Tyrant
0:7
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 32715
Location: Bay Area, California
Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:36 pm linkquote
Abner_Bjorn wrote:
That belt looks far out on the clutch pullies to me. Are you sure you tightened the outer variator plate onto the boss, and not the belt?
This is a good suggestion. Make sure the belt is seated deep in the clutch (you have to expand it by hand when installing it) before tightening down the variator. This gives it sufficient slack to clear the variator pulley when torquing the nut.
Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:09 pm

Hooked
Vespa ET4 125cc , Baotian 70cc rat scooter
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 381
Location: Wales
 
Hooked
Vespa ET4 125cc , Baotian 70cc rat scooter
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 381
Location: Wales
Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:09 pm linkquote
Sticky starter Bendix?
Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:59 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2006 GTS 250
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 9624
Location: KS USA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2006 GTS 250
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 9624
Location: KS USA
Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:59 am linkquote
^^^

Bingo!
Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:08 pm

Member
ET4
Joined: 31 Oct 2017
Posts: 22
Location: Monmouth County, NJ
 
Member
ET4
Joined: 31 Oct 2017
Posts: 22
Location: Monmouth County, NJ
Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:08 pm linkquote
VESPAsfw3 wrote:
I had a bad noise after changing the belt on my LX150. It ran but didn't sound right.

I caution you to stop riding until you are certain you reassembled everything correctly. I didn't and destroyed the spines on the crank and the variator. That was the end of that scooter lest I rebuild the engine. It was a sad day.

Here's a post with more details: https://scooterinthesticks.com/2007/01/non-riding-adventure/

And here's a picture of the variator after about 50 miles if I remember correctly.
This is heartbreaking! Yes, I have not driven it at all. As a matter of fact, we've started it for all of 30 secs. each time just to see if the noise is still there. It is such an offensive sound, am sure it is not good so no riding! Hope you get that Harley Davidson 883 Iron soon!
Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:26 pm

Member
ET4
Joined: 31 Oct 2017
Posts: 22
Location: Monmouth County, NJ
 
Member
ET4
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Location: Monmouth County, NJ
Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:26 pm linkquote
Abner_Bjorn wrote:
That belt looks far out on the clutch pullies to me. Are you sure you tightened the outer variator plate onto the boss, and not the belt?
Thanks - photo was taken after it was run to see if sound was still there (so, as I understand it, the belt works it's way towards where you see it). Yes, sure that the plate has been tightened onto the boss and not the belt. I was sure that was the case the first go around and was disappointed after redoing it (multiple times) only to hear that same damn sound!
Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:29 pm

Member
ET4
Joined: 31 Oct 2017
Posts: 22
Location: Monmouth County, NJ
 
Member
ET4
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Location: Monmouth County, NJ
Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:29 pm linkquote
isdeekelis wrote:
For me belt looks sitting good.

Are all hoses connected? Air filter box is being moved when removing variator cover, so check if engine head vent and carburetor intake hoses are in palce.
Good suggestion - can't imagine that would make a screech like that but adding this to things to check! Thank you.
Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:32 pm

Member
ET4
Joined: 31 Oct 2017
Posts: 22
Location: Monmouth County, NJ
 
Member
ET4
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Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:32 pm linkquote
grahamlml wrote:
Sticky starter Bendix?
We thought it might be a starter noise but seems to be working well. Took it out, cleaned it up and reinstalled just to be sure. It is back once opened up so not sure how else we could check? Thanks - will perhaps give it another look!
Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:34 pm

Member
ET4
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Location: Monmouth County, NJ
 
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ET4
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Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:34 pm linkquote
Bobo wrote:
Are there metal shavings in the bell housing splines or is that just grease? Hard to tell in the photo.
That is just grease. We did find some metal shavings where the variator sits but not sure how long they had been there. Has not been ridden or even run for any length of time since this belt change fiasco.
Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:11 pm

Member
ET4
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Location: Monmouth County, NJ
 
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ET4
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Location: Monmouth County, NJ
Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:11 pm linkquote
So I was finally able to find a place to upload the sound! Mind you - it is much lounder and obnoxious than it sounds here.
https://freesound.org/people/taralynnc/sounds/586845/
Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:36 am

Member
ET4
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Location: Monmouth County, NJ
 
Member
ET4
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Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:36 am linkquote
Closing the loop on this one....

After all was said and done, the variator was rubbing on the case/kickstart - must have bent thin metal plate inside ever so slightly when removing it. We had looked but did not see rub marks initially, pretty sure it was because I was shutting it off quickly after hearing noise - was afraid I was grinding something down (which I was).

Last night we let it run for a good minute, even though it hurt to do it - sure enough we could see where it was hitting. Thin metal plate on inside of cover must have gotten bent while fighting with the cover to come off. Bent it back, easy fix.

I will look on the bright side and know that my clutch, case and associated parts have never been cleaner. Now if I could just get that new locking nut from ScooterWest, I will be back on the road.

Thank you all - you are all rockstars!
Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:11 am

Molto Verboso
2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
Joined: 29 Jun 2016
Posts: 1650
Location: Toronto
 
Molto Verboso
2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
Joined: 29 Jun 2016
Posts: 1650
Location: Toronto
Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:11 am linkquote
What a horrible sound! I'm glad you fixed it!

Thanks for posting back the solution. Do you happen to have a photo of the rubbing?

I'm just not clear where the variator would rub, as I seem to recall a fair amount of clearance away from the crankshaft. But yours could not have been very bent, or you would have noticed it right away.
Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:30 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 7492
Location: NWAOK
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 7492
Location: NWAOK
Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:30 pm linkquote
Did you recently replace anything on the variator or outer plate? Does the variator say RMS on it?
Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:40 am

Member
ET4
Joined: 31 Oct 2017
Posts: 22
Location: Monmouth County, NJ
 
Member
ET4
Joined: 31 Oct 2017
Posts: 22
Location: Monmouth County, NJ
Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:40 am linkquote
berto wrote:
What a horrible sound! I'm glad you fixed it!

Thanks for posting back the solution. Do you happen to have a photo of the rubbing?

I'm just not clear where the variator would rub, as I seem to recall a fair amount of clearance away from the crankshaft. But yours could not have been very bent, or you would have noticed it right away.
Photos attached - hard to see the rub on the variator cover but it was there.





Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:25 pm

Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4863
Location: Tega Cay, SC
 
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4863
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:25 pm linkquote
Well, I guess I was not too far off. The whole kick start assembly is a damnable nuisance. Like I mentioned before, I gutted mine and never looked back.
Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:29 pm

Petty Tyrant
0:7
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 32715
Location: Bay Area, California
 
Petty Tyrant
0:7
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Location: Bay Area, California
Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:29 pm linkquote
Glad you figured it out. Congrats!
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