Moderibbit
![]() 1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 8868 Location: Atlanta, GA |
It's actually usually the case that the lining is nikasil on aluminum kits. Iron kits wear well and can be honed and rebored. Nikasil aluminum kits are kind of "single use". The porting on that looks aggressive - I think that's a good example of a kit that will need a 17.5 and more aggressive pipe to ride right and at potential
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Thanks for the input. So that setup more for high revving performance and less for puttering along at 60km/h to get to the shops then. I guess I'll stump up the extra $100 for the Malossi kit then.
Good old nikasil. Porsche use it on a lot of their engines so I'm aware of that one. That stuff is very tough. |
Moderibbit
![]() 1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 8868 Location: Atlanta, GA |
Moderibbit
![]() 1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 8868 Location: Atlanta, GA |
Here's a thread where max from motorsport raises concerns with this budget aluminum kit (but it sounds like it might not be too aggressive): Cylinder Kits: Airsal vs Malossi
(Fwiw I thought the malossi was really nicely made and worth the dough) |
Ossessionato
![]() 73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80,90 V5N 50, 01 ET2, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 4414 Location: Oceanside, CA |
Can't find where they're located in Aus, but www.scooterstreet.com.au has some good videos on YouTube and say they sell go fast parts. See if they're competitive price wise.
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MJRally wrote: Can't find where they're located in Aus, but www.scooterstreet.com.au has some good videos on YouTube and say they sell go fast parts. See if they're competitive price wise. I've been buying car parts from overseas for years so I'm well aware that it's generally cheaper to buy from overseas and pay the shipping unfortunately. |
The cast iron Malossi 70cc kit is a goodun. Good power/torque. Stock derestricted exhaust, with a rejet, will top out at a genuine 75km/h on the flat (as long as your belt, pulleys etc are in good order).
So getting up to 60 will be easy, and you won't be revving the nuts off your bike when you head to the shops. Enough poke to carry you and your beer. There's a Pollini cast iron kit too. Horses for courses. Neither are rev monsters. I think the factory CDI cuts out at a fraction over 10,000 rpm which is absolutely fine for those kits. No need for pre-mix with those. The standard oil pump (autolube) will be fine on a cast iron 70cc kit. Just use a good quality synthetic 2T oil, and you can make a tiny adjustment to up the autolube for peace of mind. As soon as you get into the aluminum cylinders, you're getting into high revving kits, which need other bits and pieces done to the to get the maximum performance, premix, etc. $$. |
Pricing up things on Racing Planet, they have Malossi and Pollini 70cc kits at just over $190 each, then there's a Naraku 70cc kit at $115.
They also have a Naraku full circle crank for not a lot more than a stock replacement. I haven't found anything bad about the brand just a lot of posts about them being good value for money, so I think I'll take a plunge on that. I just need to confirm what carb I have so I can order some jets and I'll pull the trigger. It's $100 to ship here from Germany, and the price for my parts list is about $400 cheaper than buying locally, so it's a no brainer there. Here's my parts list. It there anything I'm missing? I'd prefer not to be stuck waiting another few weeks due to leaving something out. ![]() |
Ossessionato
![]() 73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80,90 V5N 50, 01 ET2, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 4414 Location: Oceanside, CA |
Uglybob wrote: Pricing up things on Racing Planet, they have Malossi and Pollini 70cc kits at just over $190 each, then there's a Naraku 70cc kit at $115. They also have a Naraku full circle crank for not a lot more than a stock replacement. I haven't found anything bad about the brand just a lot of posts about them being good value for money, so I think I'll take a plunge on that. I just need to confirm what carb I have so I can order some jets and I'll pull the trigger. It's $100 to ship here from Germany, and the price for my parts list is about $400 cheaper than buying locally, so it's a no brainer there. Here's my parts list. It there anything I'm missing? I'd prefer not to be stuck waiting another few weeks due to leaving something out. They recommend chamfering new cylinders… depends on the quality of what your get. My Malossi seemed fine to me, so I didn't. Suppose have a look here at everything that I personally changed/cleaned/inspected: 21 year old ET2 (ZAPC160) - Mechanical Revival. 21 year old bike (10 years off the road in a garage). Only 7500km, but a lot can deteriorate over such a long time period so I took the cautious approach to essential components.
Positive
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The drive belt looks pretty new but I'll check it a little closer. It's a very low km scooter and the casing been apart before. I'm blaming oiling on this failure so the oil system is being removed. I'll premix instead. It's not a big deal.
The crank wasn't worn in the end. That's how they come, so the plates are fine. I'll leave rollers etc stock. The rest of the stuff like hoses etc I can grab locally. I'll definitely check on the little end bearing though. Good catch. Last edited by Uglybob on Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
OscarSass wrote: Suppose have a look here at everything that I personally changed/cleaned/inspected: 21 year old ET2 (ZAPC160) - Mechanical Revival. 21 year old bike (10 years off the road in a garage). Only 7500km, but a lot can deteriorate over such a long time period so I took the cautious approach to essential components. |
Uglybob wrote: The drive belt looks pretty new but I'll check it a little closer. It's a very low km scooter and the casing been apart before. I'm blaming oiling on this failure so the oil system is being removed. I'll premix instead. It's not a big deal. The crank wasn't worn in the end. That's how they come, so the plates are fine. I'll leave rollers etc stock. The rest of the stuff like hoses etc I can grab locally. I'll definitely check on the little end bearing though. Good catch. Suppose you can check what the Nakaru kit comes with just in case. Does the Nakuru kit come with a matched head? If not, you might opt for a 'complete' kit instead (which might bump the cost up). |
OK, I'm getting confused with jets. The bike has a stock 12mm weber, but reading through the thread below weber jets are different from Dellorto jets. They are both 6mm, but different threads apparently. What's the go? Why don't jet kits for the 12mm weber exist? Maybe I'm just too tired...
https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic68617 |
Moderibbit
![]() 1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 8868 Location: Atlanta, GA |
I think it's an oddball little carb, so motorsport decided to make their own for it. Unless they stopped selling them, why not just order a few sizes from them? I haven't called them in years, but they used to be super knowledgeable and would talk you through what you might need for your desired setup right over the phone
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xantufrog wrote: I think it's an oddball little carb, so motorsport decided to make their own for it. Unless they stopped selling them, why not just order a few sizes from them? I haven't called them in years, but they used to be super knowledgeable and would talk you through what you might need for your desired setup right over the phone |
Moderibbit
![]() 1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 8868 Location: Atlanta, GA |
Uglybob wrote: Do you have a link to them? Searching motorsport brings up a few hits, mostly not related https://www.scooterwest.com/ |
Uglybob wrote: OK, I'm getting confused with jets. The bike has a stock 12mm weber, but reading through the thread below weber jets are different from Dellorto jets. They are both 6mm, but different threads apparently. What's the go? Why don't jet kits for the 12mm weber exist? Maybe I'm just too tired... https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic68617 Standard jet on ET2 12mm Weber is a 76, so you'll want to go up from there. You can get a jet reamer, however that means you can only go up not down! 🙈 So, guestimating will be a challenge. |
Uglybob wrote: For future reference the Weber carb on the ET2 50cc has a main jet that is M6x1.0mm thread. Dellorto carbs seem to use both M6 and M5 size. No idea on thread size but apparently different to the Weber. If you want, I can take photos of the Weber and Dellorto jets side by side for comparison. Just ask. |
Yes, it is filthy. I'll clean it up before I refit it.
I was looking up jet drills last night and I found a set with an 0.81mm drill, so that should be the right size to embiggen the existing jet. Only $20 too. Scooter west seem to be the only place that sell the correct jets and they have none in stock. It'd be great if you could take a pic of the weber and dellorto jets side be side just for future reference. It may help out the next guy who's looking for info. |
Uglybob wrote: Pricing up things on Racing Planet, they have Malossi and Pollini 70cc kits at just over $190 each, then there's a Naraku 70cc kit at $115. They also have a Naraku full circle crank for not a lot more than a stock replacement. I haven't found anything bad about the brand just a lot of posts about them being good value for money, so I think I'll take a plunge on that. |
Moderibbit
![]() 1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 8868 Location: Atlanta, GA |
Uglybob wrote: I'm just after something reliable to putter around on, so not getting the last few % of performance will be fine for me. |
Uglybob wrote: I was looking up jet drills last night and I found a set with an 0.81mm drill, so that should be the right size to embiggen the existing jet.
Negative
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I was doing some random jobs in the shed tonight and looked at the used but very new looking Malossi head sitting on the bench and it occurred to me I'd never measured the piston in the seized engine. This scooter hasn't even done 5000km according to the odo, and the head and barrel look very new. I pulled out the caliper, and what do you know, it's a 47mm dia piston. It's still stuffed due to being seized, but I'm guessing big bore kit on stock carb and exhaust, joined with a potentially sub par oiling system was never going to last long.
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Uglybob wrote: I was doing some random jobs in the shed tonight and looked at the used but very new looking Malossi head sitting on the bench and it occurred to me I'd never measured the piston in the seized engine. This scooter hasn't even done 5000km according to the odo, and the head and barrel look very new. I pulled out the caliper, and what do you know, it's a 47mm dia piston. It's still stuffed due to being seized, but I'm guessing big bore kit on stock carb and exhaust, joined with a potentially sub par oiling system was never going to last long. Running a 70cc kit on a stock carb and exhaust is fine, provided that the jetting is right, needle position is right, and that everything else related to the engine works, seals and is cleaned/maintained as it should be (oiling, gaskets/seals, air filter, flywheel fan, fan shroud, etc etc)… and a good quality fully synthetic oil is recommended. If you're questioning the oiling, you'd have to check that system thoroughly (i.e. was the: belt intact, cable adjusted so that the cam notch lines up with the guide notch, system bled, hoses connected/intact etc etc). The pic of the carb that you posted, assuming it's the original 76 Weber main jet (that wasn't reamed to a bigger size) - that's your smoking gun TBH. That jet was meant for a stock, restricted 50cc bike. The carb is quite dirty too - what on earth got into it over that 5000km, and now did it get in? Mine didn't look like that at all, despite covering over 7000 km and sitting for 10 years. |
Moderibbit
![]() 1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 8868 Location: Atlanta, GA |
Uglybob wrote: joined with a potentially sub par oiling system was never going to last long. |
The oil system had a belt and was full of oil but I know nothing about it, so I'll just premix for now just to be sure. I may check it and refit in the future but slopping in some oil with each refuel isn't a big deal for me. Plus I can run a fat ratio to keep it happy, hopefully.
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