Tue Jun 07, 2022 3:34 pm

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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Location: Atlanta, GA
 
Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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Posts: 8868
Location: Atlanta, GA
Tue Jun 07, 2022 3:34 pm linkquote
It's actually usually the case that the lining is nikasil on aluminum kits. Iron kits wear well and can be honed and rebored. Nikasil aluminum kits are kind of "single use". The porting on that looks aggressive - I think that's a good example of a kit that will need a 17.5 and more aggressive pipe to ride right and at potential
Tue Jun 07, 2022 3:42 pm

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Vespa ET2 50cc
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Tue Jun 07, 2022 3:42 pm linkquote
Thanks for the input. So that setup more for high revving performance and less for puttering along at 60km/h to get to the shops then. I guess I'll stump up the extra $100 for the Malossi kit then.

Good old nikasil. Porsche use it on a lot of their engines so I'm aware of that one. That stuff is very tough.
Tue Jun 07, 2022 3:56 pm

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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Location: Atlanta, GA
Tue Jun 07, 2022 3:56 pm linkquote
They claim its for "regular use" but I suspect it's not a grunty kit (I don't know from experience with it, just eyeing the ports and the fact that it's an aluminum kit)
Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:02 pm

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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Posts: 8868
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Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:02 pm linkquote
Here's a thread where max from motorsport raises concerns with this budget aluminum kit (but it sounds like it might not be too aggressive): Cylinder Kits: Airsal vs Malossi

(Fwiw I thought the malossi was really nicely made and worth the dough)
Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:17 pm

Ossessionato
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80,90 V5N 50, 01 ET2, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
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Ossessionato
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80,90 V5N 50, 01 ET2, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
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Location: Oceanside, CA
Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:17 pm linkquote
Can't find where they're located in Aus, but www.scooterstreet.com.au has some good videos on YouTube and say they sell go fast parts. See if they're competitive price wise.
Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:23 pm

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Vespa ET2 50cc
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Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:23 pm linkquote
MJRally wrote:
Can't find where they're located in Aus, but www.scooterstreet.com.au has some good videos on YouTube and say they sell go fast parts. See if they're competitive price wise.
I'm whipping up a spreadsheet with the parts list and prices from different shops. Scooterstreet was the first one, but half the stuff I need is in their OS warehouse anyway...

I've been buying car parts from overseas for years so I'm well aware that it's generally cheaper to buy from overseas and pay the shipping unfortunately.
Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:47 pm

Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
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Location: UK
 
Hooked
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Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:47 pm linkquote
The cast iron Malossi 70cc kit is a goodun. Good power/torque. Stock derestricted exhaust, with a rejet, will top out at a genuine 75km/h on the flat (as long as your belt, pulleys etc are in good order).

So getting up to 60 will be easy, and you won't be revving the nuts off your bike when you head to the shops. Enough poke to carry you and your beer.

There's a Pollini cast iron kit too. Horses for courses.

Neither are rev monsters. I think the factory CDI cuts out at a fraction over 10,000 rpm which is absolutely fine for those kits.

No need for pre-mix with those. The standard oil pump (autolube) will be fine on a cast iron 70cc kit. Just use a good quality synthetic 2T oil, and you can make a tiny adjustment to up the autolube for peace of mind.

As soon as you get into the aluminum cylinders, you're getting into high revving kits, which need other bits and pieces done to the to get the maximum performance, premix, etc. $$.
Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:50 am

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Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:50 am linkquote
Pricing up things on Racing Planet, they have Malossi and Pollini 70cc kits at just over $190 each, then there's a Naraku 70cc kit at $115.

They also have a Naraku full circle crank for not a lot more than a stock replacement.

I haven't found anything bad about the brand just a lot of posts about them being good value for money, so I think I'll take a plunge on that.

I just need to confirm what carb I have so I can order some jets and I'll pull the trigger.

It's $100 to ship here from Germany, and the price for my parts list is about $400 cheaper than buying locally, so it's a no brainer there.

Here's my parts list. It there anything I'm missing? I'd prefer not to be stuck waiting another few weeks due to leaving something out.



Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:09 am

Ossessionato
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80,90 V5N 50, 01 ET2, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
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Ossessionato
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80,90 V5N 50, 01 ET2, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
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Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:09 am linkquote
Belts (oil pump and drive) need replacing?
Little end crank bearing?
Variator half with the worn teeth?
Gonna play with the clutch and springs?
Air filter?
Exhaust?
Hoses?
Battery?
Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:19 am

Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 201
Location: UK
 
Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
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Posts: 201
Location: UK
Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:19 am linkquote
Uglybob wrote:
Pricing up things on Racing Planet, they have Malossi and Pollini 70cc kits at just over $190 each, then there's a Naraku 70cc kit at $115.

They also have a Naraku full circle crank for not a lot more than a stock replacement.

I haven't found anything bad about the brand just a lot of posts about them being good value for money, so I think I'll take a plunge on that.

I just need to confirm what carb I have so I can order some jets and I'll pull the trigger.

It's $100 to ship here from Germany, and the price for my parts list is about $400 cheaper than buying locally, so it's a no brainer there.

Here's my parts list. It there anything I'm missing? I'd prefer not to be stuck waiting another few weeks due to leaving something out.
A full circle crank might increase compression slightly, and probably, you won't need to jet as high. No needed for a mild/street setup though.

They recommend chamfering new cylinders… depends on the quality of what your get. My Malossi seemed fine to me, so I didn't.

Suppose have a look here at everything that I personally changed/cleaned/inspected: 21 year old ET2 (ZAPC160) - Mechanical Revival.

21 year old bike (10 years off the road in a garage). Only 7500km, but a lot can deteriorate over such a long time period so I took the cautious approach to essential components.
Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:47 am

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Vespa ET2 50cc
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Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:47 am linkquote
The drive belt looks pretty new but I'll check it a little closer. It's a very low km scooter and the casing been apart before. I'm blaming oiling on this failure so the oil system is being removed. I'll premix instead. It's not a big deal.
The crank wasn't worn in the end. That's how they come, so the plates are fine.
I'll leave rollers etc stock.
The rest of the stuff like hoses etc I can grab locally.

I'll definitely check on the little end bearing though. Good catch.

Last edited by Uglybob on Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:49 am; edited 1 time in total
Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:49 am

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Vespa ET2 50cc
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Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:49 am linkquote
OscarSass wrote:
Suppose have a look here at everything that I personally changed/cleaned/inspected: 21 year old ET2 (ZAPC160) - Mechanical Revival.

21 year old bike (10 years off the road in a garage). Only 7500km, but a lot can deteriorate over such a long time period so I took the cautious approach to essential components.
Thanks. I'll have a look through that.
Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:34 am

Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
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Location: UK
 
Hooked
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Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:34 am linkquote
Uglybob wrote:
The drive belt looks pretty new but I'll check it a little closer. It's a very low km scooter and the casing been apart before. I'm blaming oiling on this failure so the oil system is being removed. I'll premix instead. It's not a big deal.
The crank wasn't worn in the end. That's how they come, so the plates are fine.
I'll leave rollers etc stock.
The rest of the stuff like hoses etc I can grab locally.

I'll definitely check on the little end bearing though. Good catch.
Good point - my cylinder kit came with a new one in the box, so didn't need to order one separately. Same with Reed valves. 👍

Suppose you can check what the Nakaru kit comes with just in case. Does the Nakuru kit come with a matched head? If not, you might opt for a 'complete' kit instead (which might bump the cost up).
Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:02 pm

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Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:02 pm linkquote
The Naraku kit reuses the stock head, which looks pretty new actually.

A mate suggested I check the reeds too, so, note to self:
Carb jets
Check drive belt
Check reeds
Little end bearing
Fri Jun 10, 2022 4:14 am

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Vespa ET2 50cc
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Fri Jun 10, 2022 4:14 am linkquote
OK, I'm getting confused with jets. The bike has a stock 12mm weber, but reading through the thread below weber jets are different from Dellorto jets. They are both 6mm, but different threads apparently. What's the go? Why don't jet kits for the 12mm weber exist? Maybe I'm just too tired...


https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic68617
Fri Jun 10, 2022 4:27 am

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 8868
Location: Atlanta, GA
 
Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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Posts: 8868
Location: Atlanta, GA
Fri Jun 10, 2022 4:27 am linkquote
I think it's an oddball little carb, so motorsport decided to make their own for it. Unless they stopped selling them, why not just order a few sizes from them? I haven't called them in years, but they used to be super knowledgeable and would talk you through what you might need for your desired setup right over the phone
Fri Jun 10, 2022 4:59 am

Member
Vespa ET2 50cc
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Fri Jun 10, 2022 4:59 am linkquote
xantufrog wrote:
I think it's an oddball little carb, so motorsport decided to make their own for it. Unless they stopped selling them, why not just order a few sizes from them? I haven't called them in years, but they used to be super knowledgeable and would talk you through what you might need for your desired setup right over the phone
Do you have a link to them? Searching motorsport brings up a few hits, mostly not related
Fri Jun 10, 2022 5:12 am

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 8868
Location: Atlanta, GA
 
Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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Posts: 8868
Location: Atlanta, GA
Fri Jun 10, 2022 5:12 am linkquote
Uglybob wrote:
Do you have a link to them? Searching motorsport brings up a few hits, mostly not related
For whatever reason they have two names

https://www.scooterwest.com/
Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:26 am

Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 201
Location: UK
 
Hooked
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Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:26 am linkquote
Uglybob wrote:
OK, I'm getting confused with jets. The bike has a stock 12mm weber, but reading through the thread below weber jets are different from Dellorto jets. They are both 6mm, but different threads apparently. What's the go? Why don't jet kits for the 12mm weber exist? Maybe I'm just too tired...


https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic68617
Indeed - we got that 12mm Weber carb here in the UK too. Mine had it. Not sure if/when it changed.

Standard jet on ET2 12mm Weber is a 76, so you'll want to go up from there. You can get a jet reamer, however that means you can only go up not down! 🙈

So, guestimating will be a challenge.
Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:41 pm

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Vespa ET2 50cc
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Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:41 pm linkquote
I was looking up jet drills last night. Always an option, but as you said it's difficult to drill a hole smaller 😂
Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:56 am

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Vespa ET2 50cc
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Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:56 am linkquote
For future reference the Weber carb on the ET2 50cc has a main jet that is M6x1.0mm thread.

Dellorto carbs seem to use both M6 and M5 size. No idea on thread size but apparently different to the Weber.



Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:55 pm

Hooked
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Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:55 pm linkquote
Uglybob wrote:
For future reference the Weber carb on the ET2 50cc has a main jet that is M6x1.0mm thread.

Dellorto carbs seem to use both M6 and M5 size. No idea on thread size but apparently different to the Weber.
Gosh - that's a bit of a grimy carb (compared to what I'm used to).

If you want, I can take photos of the Weber and Dellorto jets side by side for comparison. Just ask.
Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:53 pm

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Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:53 pm linkquote
Yes, it is filthy. I'll clean it up before I refit it.

I was looking up jet drills last night and I found a set with an 0.81mm drill, so that should be the right size to embiggen the existing jet. Only $20 too. Scooter west seem to be the only place that sell the correct jets and they have none in stock.

It'd be great if you could take a pic of the weber and dellorto jets side be side just for future reference. It may help out the next guy who's looking for info.
Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:57 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Tue Jun 14, 2022 2:57 pm linkquote
Uglybob wrote:
Pricing up things on Racing Planet, they have Malossi and Pollini 70cc kits at just over $190 each, then there's a Naraku 70cc kit at $115.

They also have a Naraku full circle crank for not a lot more than a stock replacement.

I haven't found anything bad about the brand just a lot of posts about them being good value for money, so I think I'll take a plunge on that.

Naraku is a Racing Planet brand. Most of the parts are made in China, and the quality control seems pretty good. The packaging is edgy, and they make a lot of parts for engines that the Italians don't bother with. The top end kit without a head is usually for someone who destroyed the piston and cylinder, but the head of their old big bore kit is still good. You can use the 50cc head with the cylinder kits, but you won't get as much out of it as if you get a kit with a head that was developed to work with the cylinder and piston.
Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:31 pm

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Vespa ET2 50cc
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Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:31 pm linkquote
Thanks for the input. I'm just after something reliable to putter around on, so not getting the last few % of performance will be fine for me.
Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:39 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:39 pm linkquote
Another Racing Planet brand is 101 Octane. Their stuff is usually about half of what Naraku is, but the parts are still pretty good.
Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:21 pm

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
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Moderibbit
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Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:21 pm linkquote
Uglybob wrote:
I'm just after something reliable to putter around on, so not getting the last few % of performance will be fine for me.
IMO I would pump the brakes on kitting much then. Stock crank, stock carb, 70cc cast iron, simple pipe like a Leo Vince, maybe rollers and spring tinkering just to keep the transmission in agreement with the new power profile.
Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:10 pm

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Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:10 pm linkquote
Uglybob wrote:
I was looking up jet drills last night and I found a set with an 0.81mm drill, so that should be the right size to embiggen the existing jet.
Based on what? Astrology, Karnak or something on the internet? You can clean up that carb, play with the jets, maybe even melt a new top end and then get a new carb, or you can buy a new carb and ride. 17.5 is a better choice with a big bore kit.
Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:29 pm

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Vespa ET2 50cc
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Tue Jun 14, 2022 11:29 pm linkquote
Based on science and common sense. Carbs aren't a new thing, and neither is resizing jets.
Weber was nice enough to use metric, so an 0.81mm drill bit creates an 81 jet size which should be fine for 70cc and stock intake and exhaust.
Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:35 am

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Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:35 am linkquote
I was doing some random jobs in the shed tonight and looked at the used but very new looking Malossi head sitting on the bench and it occurred to me I'd never measured the piston in the seized engine. This scooter hasn't even done 5000km according to the odo, and the head and barrel look very new. I pulled out the caliper, and what do you know, it's a 47mm dia piston. It's still stuffed due to being seized, but I'm guessing big bore kit on stock carb and exhaust, joined with a potentially sub par oiling system was never going to last long.
Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:16 pm

Hooked
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Hooked
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Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:16 pm linkquote
Uglybob wrote:
I was doing some random jobs in the shed tonight and looked at the used but very new looking Malossi head sitting on the bench and it occurred to me I'd never measured the piston in the seized engine. This scooter hasn't even done 5000km according to the odo, and the head and barrel look very new. I pulled out the caliper, and what do you know, it's a 47mm dia piston. It's still stuffed due to being seized, but I'm guessing big bore kit on stock carb and exhaust, joined with a potentially sub par oiling system was never going to last long.
Do you have better pics of the piston and bore? You might only need new rings, gaskets and bearings if they're OK.

Running a 70cc kit on a stock carb and exhaust is fine, provided that the jetting is right, needle position is right, and that everything else related to the engine works, seals and is cleaned/maintained as it should be (oiling, gaskets/seals, air filter, flywheel fan, fan shroud, etc etc)… and a good quality fully synthetic oil is recommended.

If you're questioning the oiling, you'd have to check that system thoroughly (i.e. was the: belt intact, cable adjusted so that the cam notch lines up with the guide notch, system bled, hoses connected/intact etc etc).

The pic of the carb that you posted, assuming it's the original 76 Weber main jet (that wasn't reamed to a bigger size) - that's your smoking gun TBH. That jet was meant for a stock, restricted 50cc bike.

The carb is quite dirty too - what on earth got into it over that 5000km, and now did it get in? Mine didn't look like that at all, despite covering over 7000 km and sitting for 10 years.
Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:59 am

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Vespa ET2 50cc
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Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:59 am linkquote
The piston looks pretty stuffed to me. The bore isn't much better. The big end bearing is seized and the crank bearings are pretty loose. This engine lived a short, hard life.





Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:42 am

Hooked
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Hooked
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Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:42 am linkquote
A bit of light scuffing there. 🤣

I'd be keen to know whether that Weber 76 MJ has been reamed or just left stock. If the latter is true, what on earth were they thinking?
Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:11 am

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 8868
Location: Atlanta, GA
 
Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:11 am linkquote
Uglybob wrote:
joined with a potentially sub par oiling system was never going to last long.
I can't recall if it was discussed already or not, but the autolube system works well - and is adjustable. Because of this, it should be perfectly fine for your kitted bike. However, it looks like the story unfolding is the previous owner didn't know what they were doing with regard to the kitting so this, like the carb, were probably not set up right for the beefier ride
Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:10 pm

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Vespa ET2 50cc
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Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:10 pm linkquote
The oil system had a belt and was full of oil but I know nothing about it, so I'll just premix for now just to be sure. I may check it and refit in the future but slopping in some oil with each refuel isn't a big deal for me. Plus I can run a fat ratio to keep it happy, hopefully.
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