Modern Vespa

The second previous owner of my '64 Allstate emails me (we knew each other when I was trying to track down a title prior to going the Vermont route): "John, I still have a '64 90SS that I was going to rebuild 20 years ago for my daughter, had the frame professionally restored and painted in University of Tenn colors (daughter was a student there a the time). Never finished it, interested?"......"I'm on my way". Four hour round trip plus it took an hour to dig it out of his shed and find all the wayward parts.

Long story short, it wasn't a '64 90SS it was a '66 VMA1T with a '76 VMA2M engine. "OK, Ed how much?" "$400".

So, is it an Allstate, Blue badge or a Vespa Primavera? Thanks.

Did you get a MM tail light?

Either way, GREAT score and dream project. Congrats!

No, I am missing the horn, tail light, plate holder, gas tank, light switch and various consumables. Sounds like I might need to have a discussion with Khajiit.

Rad! I see the floor rails, they are unique and unavailable (AFAIK). What's with the headlight chrome bezel? Not proper to VMA1. Such a good score(plus if it was an SS90 you'd always feel guilty)

Congrats! Looking forward to your build.

(Just add a blue badge and it's Astros colors… I 100% approve!)

So, what is the difference between a '66 allstate blue badge and a primavera?

The frame used for the Allstate is about an inch shorter in the cockpit.

Coveted by the Italians apparently. (To make SS90 replicas)

Fender crest on Allstate

The floor rails. Wider on the Allstate.

Allstate used a mat for the center channel instead of rails

The raised lines on the engine door latch lever run perpendicular to the ones on Primiveras

No threads for a bench seat latch pin on the Allstate. The rear luggage tray had a stud that secured it at the rear and secured the rear of the tank. A nut had to be threaded onto it from the underside of the frame

Gas tank has captured nut for saddle seat/tool box closing fastener on the Allstate

IIRC the leg shield is wider on the a
Allstate

Head lamp fastening and placement (recessed into headset, fastened with 1 clip/bolt and two ears, no chrome rim on the Allstate), Actually I think early Primaveras had this headset too, but later USA Primaveras had a headset similar if not the same as a USA Rally (2 bolts at 3 and 9 o'clock, adjusting clip at 6 o'clock.

Sears Model ID plate below fuel lever. The Allstate should have 4 holes for the rivets, though it's not hard to imagine the painter filling them

No battery box on the Allstate.

Short rotary inlet pad. Over the years the small frames had 3 different rotary pad lengths. Short,medium and long. That combined with a compression ratio of 7.2 versus the Primavaras 8.2 is why the Allstate had 4.5 BHP while the Primivera had 5.6.

16/16 on the Allstate vs 19/19 carb and inlet on the Primavera

Allstate had Internal HT coil (on stator)

Allstate had funky brake switch and harness that "grounds out" the brake light when closed, allows current to flow to brake lightbulb when open

And of course the saddle seat, luggage tray, and MM tail light on the Allstate

scootermarc69: OK, I'm pretty sure I have an Allstate Blue Badge. Could you clarify my assumptions below, though? Thanks again.

The frame used is about an inch shorter in the cockpit. - Primavera

Coveted by the Italians apparently. (To make SS90 replicas) - Primavera

Fender crest- Primavera

The floor rails.- Primavera

Uses a mat for the center channel instead of rails - Allstate

The raised lines on the engine door latch run perpendicular to the ones on Primiveras

No threads for the seat latch pin - Primavera

Gas tank has captured nut for saddle seat fastener -Allstate

IIRC the leg shield is wider - ?

Head lamp fastening and placement (recessed into headset, fastened with 1 clip/bolt and two ears, no bezel) - ?

Sears Model ID plate below fuel lever - Allstate

No battery box -Allstate

Short rotary inlet pad -?

16/16 vs 19/19 carb and inlet ?

Internal HT coil (on stator) - Primavera

Brake switch and harness that "grounds out" the brake light when closed, allows current to flow to brake lightbulb when open - ?

And of course the original seat, luggage tray, and MM tail light - ?

I edited my post for clarity.

Thank you, sir.

I did a quick check on the VMA2M and rebuilt the 19/19 carb, since it was already out. Ignition looks good, adjusted the points, shaft taper is spotless. The carb has all original brass 74/45/60.

On to the top end: the scoot came with two heads, a Piaggio 125/90 and a Polini. As well as two cylinders, one marked "PM" and on "PK 125", both bores are in great shape. Any thoughts on a proper combo of these? Thanks.

PM= Polini Motori.

Time to change the oil.....Hmmm, there's no oil in the sump. So, I spray can can of trike into the oleo hole, slosh it around and pop the drain plug. Lot's of particulate laden reddish brown liquid. Wonder where all the rust is coming from? I pulled the clutch cover and the whole clutch/basket assembly is a monolith of solid rust.

Without splitting the cases, any thoughts on the best way to clean out all of the remaining rust particles? Are there any passages that could be blocked? Thanks!!

I think you need to split it and clean it properly, looks like it's had a load of water inside - look at your axle bearing... Some parts will need to be replaced. You could try just flushing it and run it if you enjoy gambling, but with the motor out it's not that much more work to just split it to inspect and fix right.

those bearings are not long for this world

You guys are right. Cover me, I'm going in. This is my first time inside a smallie motor, anyone have a link to a step by step? Thanks again.

smallie engines are fun, you'll be fine.

only part that sucks a bit is getting the shift balls and spring in there, get the tool. the rest is fine.

If you need any help or extra parts or want to look at mine for reference, let me know. I just went through all this stuff myself and might have some spares laying around.

Mine went in super easy by shearing one of the arms off the old cruciform , using it to hold one side and pressing the other side in with a very small socket extension.

Even more fun with a "reinforced" spring

Nice list, scootermarc69. I'm filing some of that away.

garncarz, you probably have an Sears bluebadge smallframe. Not that uncommon in the States. Biggest giveaway would be the holes for the Sears plate under the fuel lever or the lack of holes for a badge on the legshield. You could probably check inside the frame for the former if they were filled.

Also, the VMA parts have the shield style Piaggio stamp versus the hexagon stamp on later Primaveras. I have a VMA1 (and a V9SS) if you want to compare or are looking for original parts.

More pictures. We like pictures.

Split the cases this morning. Mmm.....pudding!

Not sure if its mud or rust. What a mess. The good news is the pad passed the leak down test (looks better than in the picture) and the cases are in great shape.

Anything look amiss?

I got almost all of the old nasty rusted solid bearings out and gave the cases a good wash. Not too bad. I used the "old bread in the bearing trick" to get the christmas tree bearing out (though it was youtube bullshit but it actually works). I could use some advise on how to get the crank bearing race out, though. Thanks in advance.

You need the split mandrel w/ skinny lips on the end kind of puller. Mercato has a full set, or you may be able to rent or borrow the you need one.

https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Factory-Tools/T-21467

Fly side bearing, just weld a piece of scrap metal and then hit it from the other side. For the rear axle bearing I weld a bolt and use a slide hammer. Heat from the welding does all the work and they come out easy...

Unfortunately, I don't weld. But thanks anyway.

Sometimes if you lay the case split side down and heat the case around the bearing it will just fall out.

Ditch the wave spring style K/S gear spring and replace it with the later conical spring and cup arrangement. It's a straight swap. The wave one tends to wear and fail.

I got a text from the previous owner today asking if I got it running yet?

Anyone know of a rental/loaner source for a blind bearing puller?

autozone?

I believe I used a lot of heat and my cheapo Amazon internal bearing puller to get that race out. If you want to try it, feel free. I also have a MIG welder now if that doesn't work.

Thanks. Let me know when I can pick up the bearing puller. I can stop by your office whenever is convenient.

Sure, I'll bring it to work tomorrow; stop by whenever.

Fly side bearing, I put the case half in the barbecue for a while and whacked it on a block of wood until that bitch fell out. Stubborn MF.

What type of bread works best? I'm thinking pumpernickel but maybe I'm overthinking.

I used multi-grain, but I'm sure good ol Wonder Bread would be fine. The squishier the better. I bet Plumber's Putty would work too.

I got both of the remaining bearings out today. Thanks again, Steve.

There are two crank bearings: one ball and one roller. Why? I got a matched pair of new roller bearings with the scoot. Can rollers be used on both sides?

Yes, you can use rollers on both sides but joining / splitting is harder. I always go for a split NU on the fly side…

Maybe just semantics, but I've not seen or heard of roller bearings on both sides of the crank. One of them needs to be a ball bearing to handle thrust. Your crank needs to be 'trapped' or your helical primary pinion can push it sideways until something that's spinning hits something that's not.

Older smallie cases had TWO ball bearings and they are harder to split than newer ones like yours that has a split two piece needle or roller bearing outboard.

Correction, I meant ball bearings. Clutch side needs to be a ball bearing…