Sat May 21, 2022 3:40 am

Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
 
Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
Sat May 21, 2022 3:40 am linkquote
Hello - newb here.

Having purchased a brand new ET2 21 years ago (way back when I had hair)... my first "bike", and my first venture into the freedom of movement around a city. I quickly moved onto large capacity sports bikes shortly afterwards (having decided to live more rurally), so the ET2 was used by a few family members over the years.

It wasn't treated with much respect, and accumilated some battle scars over the years... as well as being "serviced" and "repaired" less than satisfactory garages.

After being off the road for nearly 11 years, I thought it was time to get it back and get it up and running again.

Flat spotted tyres... seized steering bearings... seized front brakes... dead battery. I pushed it (with the associated difficulty) out of the garage to see whether it would even start.

Got a spare battery, jumped it to the battery terminals - dead. Nothing. Not even the fuel/oil lights would come on. Wiggled the ignition key (on and off) and eventually I got the fuel/oil lights to come on (but only in a specific position, so there was definitely corrosion on the ignition switch behind the horn cover), as well as getting the indicators and brake light to work. So far so good.

Next - fuel and oil (both tanks dry). Added a bit of both until I was satisfied that they weren't bone dry.

Spark plug and cylinder - a good dose of contact cleaner on the spark plug, as well as some WD40 inside the cylinder. Used the kick starter to evacuate the contents of the cyliner whilst the spark plug was off, then reassembled.

Whilst the electrical start wasn't working, the kick starter got it going. It was alive! All lights working, horn working, engine running. Turned it off and decided to collect it the next day to carry on the work.

Sprayed all of the seized parts (including the brake disc) with WD40 and left if overnight. The next day, I had the pleasure of pushing this 4 miles to my house! In hindsight, I wish I'd have added air to the tyres. It was rather strenuous (for an athletic sort of person I'd like to add).

I started disassembly later that day - EVERYTHING was covered in a thick, dry coating of 2T oil. More on this later.

After about £100 worth of degreasers, carb cleaner, shop towels, and disposable gloves it was done. Now time to replace the old/dodgy bits...

Various little bits and pieces missing - leading me to question whoever worked on this bike in the past as already stated (those missing bits and pieces can cause damage to other parts).

Good news - steering bearings were clean/unpitted. The grease on them had solidified. A good clean and re-lube will sort them out.

Drive belt - worn/frayed. Original drive belt. Never replaced for 10 years of road use? Worn rollers (one was particularly flat) - never replaced/inspected for 10 years? Who knows. That said, the gearbox/tranny oil was super clean. Very odd.

I note, the oil tank (and associated fittings) looked new. Seems when it was dropped on its side, the oil tank was damaged... dribbling 2T oil all over the place. It was never cleaned, and the bike was clearly was running like that for a while before it was replaced. So new oil tank, bonus. The cleanup job, not so pleasant.

Fuel hose had cracks, and a massive leak in it. More on this later.

Front master cylinder felt rough (corrosion inside). The actual seizure was down to blocked banjo bolts... and the brake pads literally just fell apart! Again, were the pads never inspected? Was that purely down to storage in a relatively dry garage? See the photo below and decide. I'm not taking any risks with braking, so the whole lot was replaced.

Suspension - whilst it looked OK and worked, it wasn't smooth. Again, no way am I taking risks with suspension. Replaced the lot. Adjustable rear pre-load would be nice anyway.

Front hub - seems someone added grease, but never cleaned the old stuff out. So there was a mix of fresh grease... and the old grease (which had formed what I can only describe as yellowed bathroom silicone). A good clean needed there then.

One tyre was OK, but it was one of those budget "widow maker" types, fitted not long before the bike was dropped. There you go, not worth skimping on that sort of thing. Always get decent tyres. Again, not taking risks with tyres. Replaced both with Michelin City Grip.

Traffic is a bit different nowadays - and given that I have a full bike license, I decided to go for a 70cc kit. The bike has always been derestricted, however it's still not enough to remain safe in modern traffic (think impatient tailgaters and very close overtaking manoeuvres).

Cosmetics can wait. All work completed is for safe/reliable running.

MOT on Wednesday - wish me luck.


Work completed/parts replaced:

Engine/Fuel/Induction:
-New Malossi cast iron 70cc kit (which includes new cylinder head, reed valves, small end bearing, gaskets etc.).
-New 17.5 PHVA carb clone (original was a 12mm weber).
-New manual choke lever (doesn't need auto choke IMO),
-New Malossi foam air filter.
-New spark plug.
-New CDI and spark plug cap (bargain offer, no rev limiter - could be useful if I decided to get a 'kevved' exhaust).
-Bigger jet to suit the new bigger bore. Currently running a 72 MJ. Unsure about pilot jet (I think it's too big).
-New oil lines.
-New fuel and vacuum lines (more on this later).
-Drained / cleaned oil tank and fuel tank.
-New exhaust heat shield, and bolts/washers.
-Repainted exhaust, and new bolts/washers (mounting bolts were properly seized and washers were missing - 1000nm impact wrench to the rescue).

Transmission:
-New 5.7g rollers (to replace the worn 6.5g originals).
-New gearbox/transmission oil.
-New drive belt.
-New oil belt.
-New bearing on variator cover (for clutch/drive shaft).
-Cleaned and sanded front pulley assembly. New nut.
-Cleaned and polished variator assembly.
-Cleaned and re-greased rear pulley assembly bearings.
-Cleaned and sanded clutch bell. New nut for whole assembly.

Wheels/Suspension:
-New front shock absorber and spring (RMS, non-adjustable).
-New rear shock absorber and spring (RMS, adjustable preload).
-New rear hub nut cover (missing)
-New rear locking washer (rusted on, because the hub nut cover was missing).
-New tyres.

Braking:
-New OEM front brake master cylinder.
-New Goodridge braided front brake hose, with stainless steel fittings.
-New OEM front brake disc (and bolts/washers).
-New OEM front brake caliper (comes with new pads), and bolts/washers.
-Cleaned and sanded rear brake drum, and shoes.

Front hub/speedometer:
-New speedo plastic gear.
-New wheel bolts and washers.
-Cleaned and re-greased Speedo cable.
-Cleaned and re-greased front axle/swing assembly.
-Cleaned and re-greased front hub bearings.
-Cleaned and re-greased steering bearings.

Electrical:
-New sealed AGM battery.
-New front headlight unit (old parabolic reflector coating pitted).
-New BA20d halogen bulb.
-New ignition switch (ignition switch plastic cover was missing, leading to corrosion).
-New ignition switch plastic cover (to avoid issues in future).


-Various other new nuts, bolts and washers.

Last edited by OscarSass on Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:28 am; edited 17 times in total
Sat May 21, 2022 5:08 am

Molto Verboso
GTS 300ie Touring 2013 - Signora D'argento & GTS 300ie HPE 2022 - Regina Arancione.
Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 1829
Location: Lancaster, U.K.
 
Molto Verboso
GTS 300ie Touring 2013 - Signora D'argento & GTS 300ie HPE 2022 - Regina Arancione.
Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 1829
Location: Lancaster, U.K.
Sat May 21, 2022 5:08 am linkquote
OscarSass wrote:
MOT on Wednesday - wish me luck.
Welcome and good luck!
Sat May 21, 2022 7:39 am

Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
 
Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
Sat May 21, 2022 7:39 am linkquote
Touring300 wrote:
Welcome and good luck!
Thanks. I see you're into Italian pedal bikes too. 👍👍
Sat May 21, 2022 7:44 am

Molto Verboso
GTS 300ie Touring 2013 - Signora D'argento & GTS 300ie HPE 2022 - Regina Arancione.
Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 1829
Location: Lancaster, U.K.
 
Molto Verboso
GTS 300ie Touring 2013 - Signora D'argento & GTS 300ie HPE 2022 - Regina Arancione.
Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 1829
Location: Lancaster, U.K.
Sat May 21, 2022 7:44 am linkquote
OscarSass wrote:
Thanks. I see you're into Italian pedal bikes too. 👍👍
Yeah, they're quite addictive.
Sun May 22, 2022 12:38 am

Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
 
Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
Sun May 22, 2022 12:38 am linkquote
Exhaust before and after:
-Exterior degrease with engine degreaser.
-Heat gun to burn off oily residue from the inside (and out).
-Wire wheel to remove rusty bits.
-800c exhaust paint.
-New shiny heat shield, bolts/fixings.
-Fitted.


ET2 exhaust on bike, before treatment.


Heat gun treatment.


Painted with exhaust paint (highest heat claim that I could find).


New heat shield fitted. All done!


That looks better doesn't it?



Last edited by OscarSass on Mon May 30, 2022 12:34 am; edited 2 times in total
Sun May 22, 2022 12:43 am

Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
 
Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
Sun May 22, 2022 12:43 am linkquote
Brake master cylinder and braided brake hose:
-New OEM master cylinder (updated, not original Grimeca).
-Goodridge braided hose with SS fittings.


Original master cylinder. Rough feeling (internal corrosion), and poor sealing (squishy sound).


New OEM master cylinder. Note this one has an updated window. You can just about see the SS fittings.


New brake disc, caliper (which came with pads) and hose fitted. Going is one thing, stopping is another.


Oh my word - look at these pads! Not recommended if you want to stop.



Last edited by OscarSass on Tue May 24, 2022 6:22 am; edited 2 times in total
Sun May 22, 2022 12:52 am

Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
 
Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
Sun May 22, 2022 12:52 am linkquote
New 70cc cast iron kit, and 17,5mm PHVA clone:
-Kit fitted first
-BR9ES spark plug.
-Reed valve block to crank case had no gasket?! A clean, and a smidge of RTV to fix that. Previous dirt/moisture ingress left marks. Not impressed. Who on earth worked on this thing?!
-Oil and fuel lines replaced after some tinkering. Oil pump adjusted a tiny smidge for the breaking in of the new cylinder/piston rings.
-Carb jet adjusted (not final - need to ride the thing before getting it set up). Needle in middle setting for now.
-Engine starts instantly (after initial priming with the kickstarter, on its first ever start). Even if left for a week, very easily after an initial prime. Very pleased.
-Adjusted idle to allow running of lights without them flickering, or worse, the engine cutting out at traffic lights. Stator puts load on the engine, so better adjust for that from the outset IMO.


Malossi 70cc cast iron kit (air cooled).


Dodgy fuel line. In my initial test (airbox off), this led to an inconsistent idle… and more worryingly, a runaway engine once revved (AFM was being sucked into the carb mouth due to the leak). That's why I dislike pod filters.


New lines (oil, vacuum and fuel). I chose clear oil lines to be able to see if there were oiling issues (air pockets etc).


PHVA 17.5 clone carb. 72 MJ fitted to start off with. Comes with an A7 needle, and 67 main jet out of the box. You can just about see the manual choke lever at the back.


Spark plug before doing any work to the bike. There's rich... and there's this!



Last edited by OscarSass on Mon Jul 25, 2022 11:57 am; edited 6 times in total
Sun May 22, 2022 6:16 am

Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
 
Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
Sun May 22, 2022 6:16 am linkquote
The plot thickens - I wonder what happened here? Looks like the pulley had an issue in the past. That's a mark from the fan.

And check out this drive belt (on a bike that had been serviced not too long before being taken off the road). 🤣


Markings on the inside of the variator/clutch housing. What happened?


Dodgy drive belt (V belt).



Last edited by OscarSass on Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:27 am; edited 3 times in total
Thu May 26, 2022 4:21 am

Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
 
Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
Thu May 26, 2022 4:21 am linkquote
MOT pass - no advisories. Time to jet.

So initially, MJ was set at 72 as a rough guess (pilot jet is a 38 and air screw at 2.5 turns anti-clockwise):
Bike picks up and revs fine from standstill, and at lower speeds. Throttle control is punchy/responsive - too much so? A bit on/off for a better description. Better at medium speeds, good response….

…but after some time at WOT, on overrun, it's difficult to get the engine to pick up again for a few seconds (think approaching a junction, or coming out of a bend)… like there's a dead spot at 1/4 throttle. If I open it wider, it responds eventually. Clearly the clutch is still engaged at this point whilst slowing down, but engine should respond to throttle inputs. Is something sticking?

My 17.5mm PHVA clone carb came with a 67 MJ as stock. I tried that:
The hesitation on overrun is not as prominent. Smoother throttle control at lower speeds (how on earth can the MJ make this difference?). After a period at WOT (stuff the break-in period!), the exhaust paint is smoking (when I park up after my brief run) - it's getting way hotter than I'd like. So too lean at WOT.

Next step - go back to 72 MJ, and lower the needle to make the transition smoother/leaner…

…Hmm… slightly better, but not quite there. I note a deeper tone at WOT than the 67 MJ. Possibly a tad too rich at WOT?

So, tried a 70MJ - with the same (lower) needle setting. Not absolutely perfect but a better transition. Throttle still a bit on/off. Weird occasional 'blip' on sudden WOT. Occasional dead spot on over-run. No overheating detected (by my nose) at WOT, but no deep tone either. 45 MPH GPS speed on a long flat run.

I disassembled the lot, to see if I could have another go. My carb isn't an original Dellorto and it got me thinking - what's the quality of the needle & slider, and how do they compare to the 12mm Weber carb (which is stock on UK and US ET2 50cc bikes - my engine is a C161M):

-The slides look the same in terms of angle/shape.
-The plastic needle holder is a better/more secure item on the Weber (no wobbly needle), but has the same holes/protrusions as the Dellorto clone. I'll use the Weber one in my next test.
-The needle is every so slightly shorter… and has a fatter profile. The A7 needle that came with my Dellorto clone has a defect on it too (pic below), so I swapped to the Weber needle. I lowered it one clip, so that it is effectively at the same depth the A7 needle would be in its middle clip setting.



Result: Glad I tried it. 👍
-No brief 'blip' on sudden WOT acceleration runs. So it's a needle transition thing.
-Better throttle control at lower speeds (i guess due to a better transition). I still might go for a slower action throttle next though.
-Moved back up to 72 MJ just to be safe (slightly rich?) at WOT, knowing the weather is reasonably warm at the moment.

I'm using the stock airbox, as well as the weird stock air intake (the one that sucks air in from just behind the luggage hook - bizzare, but useful if flooding/crud is a thing where you live).

If this air intake system is good enough for an ET4 125cc, it should be good enough for the 70cc cylinder. I'll keep as is for now.

I'm using a stock exhaust (derestricted) which won't be able to evacuate more gas than it does already IMO.

In future: Keen to try an exhaust that is free flowing (with some expansion discretely built-in) which isn't loud/lairy and doesn't look like something worth stealing. I'm thinking a Gianelli Go (aka Malossi Wild Lion, and whatever Pollini call theirs). We'll see.


"A7" needle, and defect.



Last edited by OscarSass on Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:31 am; edited 7 times in total
Thu May 26, 2022 8:08 am

Hooked
PK50XL, PK100S, ET3
Joined: 26 Aug 2020
Posts: 276
Location: UK
 
Hooked
PK50XL, PK100S, ET3
Joined: 26 Aug 2020
Posts: 276
Location: UK
Thu May 26, 2022 8:08 am linkquote
Have you looked into getting a cylinder head temp gauge? That would give you a warning if its going to seize.
Thu May 26, 2022 8:18 am

Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
 
Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
Thu May 26, 2022 8:18 am linkquote
Matchlessman wrote:
Have you looked into getting a cylinder head temp gauge? That would give you a warning if its going to seize.
It's certainly tempting!

I don't intend to push it to its limits. Trying to find a happy medium at the moment - knowing it'll get leaner as the weather gets colder.

I'm thinking go ever so slightly rich… we'll see if I achieve that.
Mon May 30, 2022 10:50 am

Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
 
Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
Mon May 30, 2022 10:50 am linkquote
E-Choke (auto choke).

Having decided to go for a tiny wee manual choke lever… I thought, why not try the auto choky thingy.

Initially, when I installed the PHVA clone carb, I did use the Weber choke that was on the Weber 12mm carb (with no success - different bracket, and I wondered whether the gasket was sealing).

I ordered a manual choke (thinking it was better for initial setup), as well as a new auto choke (apparently specifically for this carb).

Turns out the new auto choke has the same dimensions as the Weber item, save that it has a different bracket to seat it in.

Had a go with it tonight - absolute pants. It seems to be on all of the time (despite going for a ride up and down the road), giving me a low idle speed. It warms up alright, but just doesn't do it's thing effectively.

So, either this clone carb has an issue with auto-chokes (can't see why though), or they're a bit naff.

Manual choke back on. 👍
Mon May 30, 2022 12:52 pm

Enthusiast
2005 & 2006 Piaggio Typhoon 50
Joined: 13 Sep 2020
Posts: 67
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
 
Enthusiast
2005 & 2006 Piaggio Typhoon 50
Joined: 13 Sep 2020
Posts: 67
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Mon May 30, 2022 12:52 pm linkquote
OscarSass wrote:
E-Choke (auto choke).

Had a go with it tonight - absolute pants. It seems to be on all of the time (despite going for a ride up and down the road), giving me a low idle speed. It warms up alright, but just doesn't do it's thing effectively.

So, either this clone carb has an issue with auto-chokes (can't see why though), or they're a bit naff.

Manual choke back on. 👍
As soon as I added an aftermarket pipe and upjetted, the auto-enricher (choke) gave me grief as it left the choke on too long and I had no power at WOT as it was super rich. Swapped in a manual choke and it works good to start it and then I just flip it off after like 30 second warm up. Seems to be working ok so far. I have some tuning to do on the lower throttle response.

For info I'm at 3300 feet elevation, running 75 MJ with Malossi red sponge filter (stock airbox), Yansuni Z pipe, 5 gr rollers and +30% clutch springs. Revs out to ~8700 rpm now but pipe (and power) don't hit till around 7000 rpm.
Tue May 31, 2022 12:27 am

Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
 
Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
Tue May 31, 2022 12:27 am linkquote
Baumer18 wrote:
As soon as I added an aftermarket pipe and upjetted, the auto-enricher (choke) gave me grief as it left the choke on too long and I had no power at WOT as it was super rich. Swapped in a manual choke and it works good to start it and then I just flip it off after like 30 second warm up. Seems to be working ok so far. I have some tuning to do on the lower throttle response.

For info I'm at 3300 feet elevation, running 75 MJ with Malossi red sponge filter (stock airbox), Yansuni Z pipe, 5 gr rollers and +30% clutch springs. Revs out to ~8700 rpm now but pipe (and power) don't hit till around 7000 rpm.
Reassuring to know I'm not the only one. 🙈

I didn't have a problem WOT (apart from decreased acceleration and top end)… but the idle was rubbish - too low. Not cutting out, but at night with your lights on, it's better for them not to dim and flicker. With the manual choke, I can adjust the idle to accommodate the stator load and avoid that.

I'm keeping the stock pipe for now.

To be honest, all the bike needs is a primer pump. If it's been sat for a few days, all it needs is for me (at the moment) to pull the choke for 5 secs (if that) just to get the initial turnover. Wasn't like that at the beginning though.

Same here - lower throttle response could do with a bit of work (seems to be quite punchy with just a cylinder kit, and 0.7g lighter rollers). Works better with the needle swap, but I fancy a more gradual throttle response. So stock clutch springs for me.

I'll order a needle set and have a play with different shapes/sizes. 🤞

It picks up very well up to 30mph, decent ish up to 40. The last 5mph aren't really worth it for my bike's intended use, and it takes a 1/4 mile long straight to achieve… but it it's nice to fiddle in the garage - might go for 50mph one day, just for the challenge.

Last edited by OscarSass on Sat Jun 11, 2022 1:11 am; edited 1 time in total
Thu Jun 02, 2022 7:57 am

Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
 
Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
Thu Jun 02, 2022 7:57 am linkquote
Pilot jet, atomiser, needle, etc:

I think my pilot jet is a bit too big (38). Being of dubious quality (remember, it's a clone not an original), I've ordered a Dellorto 32 pilot jet as a starting point.

Atomiser - same story, may as well use an original part.

Got two needles - a proper A7, and an A11. Again, both Dellorto.

Updates on progress next week. Hoping to have a more linear throttle response - currently most of the action is at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle. 🤞
Sat Jun 04, 2022 11:29 am

Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
 
Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
Sat Jun 04, 2022 11:29 am linkquote
UPDATE:
Parts arrived early… thought I'd give it a go.

Tried all sorts of combinations of:
32 pj.
38 pj.
A7 needle
A11 needle.
Weber 'fat' needle.
Various needle clip positions.

I very successfully managed to fumigate my garage, my neighbours' houses and get high on fumes.

I can literally taste 2T oil.

What I've deduced:
32 pilot jet to small (one turn)… 38 too big (2.5 turns). Guess I'll get a 36 (can't see a 35 for sale, but will look again).

Leaving it as is for now: i.e. Weber needle one clip from the top, 38pj, 72 mj.

PS I'm coming down and starting to get a headache. Do I go cold turkey, or should I inhale a bit more before bed time?


Needle assortment (left-right): Unknown Weber, Dellorto A7, Dellorto A11, Clone A7.

Mon Jun 06, 2022 4:39 am

Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
 
Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
Mon Jun 06, 2022 4:39 am linkquote
Drivetrain inspection: 125 miles.

A bit of delt dust but nothing concerning. Slight odour of clutch if I sniffed around carefully (I know, a sniff test 🤣).

Seems the belt gets near enough to the top of the variator face - not sure if I'd want it to go any higher?

Seems something is either out of round, or the belt has left slightly inconsistent marks on on the variator face (not sure if this is the norm).





Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:13 am

Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
 
Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:13 am linkquote
Battery:

How can I forget - this is something I did right at the beginning.

Went for a sealed AGM this time… none of this electrolyte faff. I recall Yuasa batteries of old. AGMs tend not to like heat - we'll see how this goes in the long run.

I must say I'm impressed - this thing holds a good voltage and doesn't seem to drop. No need for a drain, and no risk of corrosion due to overflow/spillage.

Can't seem to spot a breather on it - interesting. Perhaps I've not looked hard enough.

I have put a tender lead on it - how long the battery lasts depends on many factors, including the vehicle's charging logic. A bit of maintenance every now and then certainly won't hurt.

Granted there's no power drain when the scoot is not in use (no alarm), and it's only really used for the electric start (and indicators once up and running).


This Powerline AGM 4ah battery seems to be quite good. Getting its first charge - took minutes, as it was already in a good SOC. On a sealed battery, always check the manufacturing date and voltage (before charging it).


AGMs tend to have a slightly higher voltage when fully charged. This is the voltage after a brief charge, then being left overnight. It's a goodun.

Fri Jun 10, 2022 12:20 pm

Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
 
Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
Fri Jun 10, 2022 12:20 pm linkquote
Jets, needles, and other wee bits

So, I received some bits and pieces that I ordered.

1- Reed valve gasket (my temporary fix was RTV), however I had the intention of replacing the item below…
2- Intake manifold. Old was showing cracks (on the outside), however good on the inside (how long for?).
3- Pilot jets (short type, no built-in emulsifier, used as power jets in some applications, stock on the dell 17.5 as far as I can tell).
4- Stock Dellorto slide.
5- New fuel petcock (more on this below).

1+2: Well, the new manifold has so much more flex on it. It actually feels like rubber, and I can see the benefit when taking the bike on/off the centre stand. There's movement which previously wasn't there - so there's more flex between the engine, manifold, carb, and airbox tube. Less vibration is good I guess. 👍

3- Installed a 34 pilot jet. Tried very hard to get any sort of deviation from this textbook number. Bang on 1.5 turns out of the air screw. With this new PJ, thought it were felicitous to use the A7 needle as Piaggio (may have) intended. I might lower the needle (to make it leaner) however it's working well (way better than when I tried faffing last time). Behaves akin to my previous setup with the lean/fat Weber needle (details above), but with much better throttle control at lower speeds. Almost cracked it.

4- Stock slide on this 'clone' carb seemed to be painted metal (aluminum I expect). This new dellorto slide is plastic - interesting. Same dimensions, however a much better throttle cable locking mechanism (same mechanism as my stock Weber slide). Makes for easier needle tuning too - spring can be pulled to one side to remove the needle & holder.

5- When I first installed my 70cc kit, the bike started with no need for choke. That changed over time, and was having to use the choke on cold starts as of late. Tested the old petcock, whilst it worked, I felt the vacuum required to get it going was a bit on the high side. Like the inlet fannimold, the rubber diaphragm had probably hardened but not failed. Cold starts fine, with no choke now, so it seems to have resolved something (explaining this, and its relationship to the carb bowl I will leave to an expert). Could be a bit rich though (ie starting with no choke?).


More adjustments will be needed, however today (after a roundabout exit onto a 40mph dual carriageway) the bike just took off and hit 80km/h indicated without me realising. Seems my twist of the throttle hit an air/fuel sweet spot and the bike just went for it.

Crikey - seems there's more to this 70cc cast iron kit than I realised. Look forward to more tweaking.

Last edited by OscarSass on Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:16 am; edited 2 times in total
Sun Jun 12, 2022 11:44 am

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Sun Jun 12, 2022 11:44 am linkquote
250 mile update:

So far so good… a few niggles:

1- Starter motor intermittent. Will check handlebar button, wiring, and the starter itself. It's one of those three.

2- Seems I have a tiny wee exhaust leak at the back of the cylinder port (towards the rear wheel). Either my stock exhaust is ever so slightly off, or the Malossi cylinder is. Not sure which. I'm suspecting exhaust as the bike was dropped down the road (whilst not in my possession).

Won't be making any further carb needle/clip adjustments until that's sorted…

…which leads me to the wonderful opportunity to seek a decent exhaust out.

Going very well with stock (derestricted) exhaust however I know it will definitely go better with an aftermarket exhaust. The question is which one.

The issue, is that these things (well, Piaggio 50cc 2T engines) are mostly modded by kids. Trying to filter adult from kidult posts is challenging on the forums.

Last edited by OscarSass on Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:18 am; edited 1 time in total
Sun Jun 12, 2022 12:29 pm

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Sun Jun 12, 2022 12:29 pm linkquote
What are you getting top speed wise with the stock exhaust and 17 mil carb? 75kph?

Did you ever change the torsion and clutch springs? Didnt see it on your initial list.
Mon Jun 13, 2022 12:48 am

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Mon Jun 13, 2022 12:48 am linkquote
MJRally wrote:
What are you getting top speed wise with the stock exhaust and 17 mil carb? 75kph?

Did you ever change the torsion and clutch springs? Didnt see it on your initial list.
Hiya,

Torsion and clutch springs untouched (they work fine).

Indicated 70km/h no problem. A bit longer to get to 75km/h.

Longer still to 80km/h indicated if it's flat… very quick to 80 if there's a slight decline. Will not do 80 if there's a slight incline.

80km/h is the point at which point the engine sounds very loud/boomy. It just won't rev past that really - I suspect it's the exhaust, as I have an 'unrestricted' CDI.

I have no tach, so can't say what the engine RPM is doing unfortunately.
Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:45 am

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Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:45 am linkquote
Starter motor and wiring:

So the starter motor was intermittent, then stopped. Kick starter to the rescue.

A quick bit of investigating reveals that the cables (at the bottom, near the starter itself) have an intermittent connection. Quite common due to their exposure to water/salt/crud.

The cables can pinch a bit, in-between the centre stand and crank case. Just be wary of that.

Easy diagnosis method:
1- Zip tie rear brake on.
2- Turn ignition on.
3- Hold starter button with one hand, and wiggle the cable with the other. Start at the bottom… and work all your way up to the battery compartment. No success? Well, could be the starter motor, a clean break in the cables, starter relay, or the starter button. Got off lightly with this one!

The rear mudguard leaves a lot to be desired… check out all of the crud in the pic. Why on earth not just make the mud guard a tad longer?

I ordered a new starter with new wiring for £20 - a sort of 'while you're in there' approach to change both. An opportunity to clean up all of the s**t that's built up over the years.

So, new bits ordered (to compliment something else new - it's a surprise) along with new nuts/bolts/washers. Centre stand will have a good ol' clean with a wire brush too.

Upon arrival of the new starter motor (101 Octane, not OEM), I note a different wiring harness. Designed to be used with a block connector (used on later models perhaps?). Ichanged my wiring (which used to connect directly to the starter relay), in favour of a block connector. Given the failure rate of starter motors (and related ancillaries), it would be beneficial to be able to simply disconnect a block connector, and run various tests. Sold.

One of the starter motor bolts was rounded off (the one closest to the front). I changed them from 8mm to 10mm hoping to avoid issues in future.


Starter motor (and cables) cruddy, due to insufficient mudguard coverage.


A lot of wiggling and prying to get that off (it's been on there for 21 years).


Crud clean-up. Ready for new starter and wiring.


New starter motor fitted. Wiring routed. Centre stand fitted (after a bit of a clean and lube).


New harness (old sleeve re-used). I realised the block connector was the wrong way round after taking this pic (locking mechanism facing the wrong way!!). It's now been sorted. 😇



Last edited by OscarSass on Sat Jul 23, 2022 2:06 am; edited 3 times in total
Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:29 pm

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Tue Jun 28, 2022 1:29 pm linkquote
Tecnigas Silent Pro:

So, something was eating away at me:
1- Stock exhaust was blowing a tiny bit where it meets the cylinder.
2- Is a stock derestricted exhaust good enough for a mild 70cc kit?

Options are limited for a Vespa ET2 - many of the aftermarket options out there simply won't fit (due to fouling the bodywork).

The exhaust arrived, and first, I derestricted it. The only other 'modifications' I made were to add spring washers to the bolts… and used 'fire gum' as a sealant around the flange.

Differences:
-It's lighter than the stock, derestricted exhaust.
-It makes deeper tone (thud thud), but not noisier overall.
-The flange opening is 1-2mm bigger in diameter (comparing both derestricted exhausts).
-The engine revs up quicker, and the revs drop quicker (when on centre stand, and at a standstill at lights/junctions).
-It's slimmer (I can see more of the back wheel), so it's easier to check/adjust the rear tyre pressure.
-The engine runs a bit richer at lower RPM. Why?
-More torque (noticeable once moving).
-The powerband has shifted higher up the rev range. With 5.7g rollers, the peak power hits after I reach 55km/h indicated (so 50km/h real speed). I might go lighter with the rollers.
-An extra few km/h top speed (nothing to write home about), but it pulls well throughout, and really well from 50-75 km/h indicated.
-Up a long hill, where the bike previously slowed to 65km/h, it maintained 75km/h indicated.
-WOT now does something (previously, there was no difference between 3/4 and WOT).

Weird stuff (wobblers to the rescue):
-The exhaust gets in the way of itself: tightening the lower exhaust mounting bolt took a bit of time.
-The exhaust gets in the way of one of the fan cowling screws.

I'd say it was a good buy. Suits the bike well, and performs well without being loud or obvious. 👍


Tecnigas Silent Pro vs Stock ET2 exhaust.


Tecnigas Silent Pro 2T restrictor.


Tecnigas Silent Pro 2T restrictor removed.


Tecnigas Silent Pro fitted to Vespa ET2 - side profile.


Tecnigas Silent Pro fitted to Vespa ET2 - rear profile.



Last edited by OscarSass on Sat Jul 23, 2022 2:07 am; edited 3 times in total
Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:17 am

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Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:17 am linkquote
Needle comparison:

Dellorto A22 needle vs. the Weber 'V' needle found in the stock 12mm carb.

Rain stopping play today, but I expect it'll work well (seems many recommend the A22 with a 70cc cast iron kit if using the stock air box). We'll see. 👍


Dellorto A22 on the left, Weber V on the right.

Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:00 am

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Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:00 am linkquote
Fan Failure:

Have you ever wondered… what chaos would ensue…
…if a part of the fan were to detach itself at, say, 10000 rpm?

Have a look at the pics below. You can see the missing piece on the fan, and where it exited the cowling. 🤣

I totally admit fault - broke that little chunk off the fan blade ages ago (I caught it with a bar). I stuck it back on, just as a temporary fix until I got an order for parts in… and, given that most things on this bike have been replaced, I was in no way intending on cheaping out.

But, not all is lost. For a day this thing had a very cool whistle… less turbo, more supercharger sound. Might just sell this as a kit on eBay - I bet the kids would LOVE it.


Missing chunk of fan blade.


Exit wound, where the fan blew chunks (well, one chunk).



Last edited by OscarSass on Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:36 am; edited 1 time in total
Sat Jul 23, 2022 2:41 am

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Sat Jul 23, 2022 2:41 am linkquote
Fan and fan cowl replaced… back to jetting and needles:

So, having replaced the fan and fan cowl (and bolts), it was time to get to jetting again.

With the Tecnigas Silent Pro exhaust, it seems the setup likes a 74 main jet (with the right needle). See below

Before needle fiddling, I tried some jets:
I tried a 72 MJ - whilst the throttle repose was amazingly punchy to start off with, I lost acceleration/power from approx 65-70 km/h, and the bike didn't really want to do 80 km/h.

I tried a 76 & 78 MJ - acceleration felt a bit flatter to be honest, and the bike didn't want to do 80km/h. I'm sure the 76 MJ will come into its own in the winter.

So, settled on a 74 MJ, I did some needle fiddling.
I tried installing an A22 needle - quite punchy taking off and requires a very nuanced throttle control at lower speeds. Top end isn't as strong with the A22 is it is with A7 needle.

Decided the bike was running too lean in the mid range, so wanted to go back to the A7 for day-to-day usability… but there was still this niggling issue of:
1- Transition from 1/8 or 1/4 throttle to WOT during sudden acceleration.
2- The dead spot on over-run when slowing down a long hill, or after slowing down to a bend from a high speed.

There are only three other options left - trying an A8 needle (which gets richer quicker), or something similar to the A7 which is narrower in diameter. Or both. See the attached pic.

I note that the A7 and A22 needles have a 2mm diameter. There are needles that have a 1.98mm diameter (but with similar dimensions/tapers otherwise) which might just solve the weird dead/lean spot on over-run.

Given that I have two A7 needles, I decided to sacrifice one - taking a tiny bit of material off by sanding and polishing. How much I took off, I cannot say without a micrometer, but I was very conservative about it.

So, current setup (for clarity, a typical SW UK summer, at pretty much sea level):
-70cc Malossi Cast iron kit.
-PHVA 17.5 (clone).
-Tweaked A7 needle (second to last leanest clip position, but may change my mind).
-GA209 atomiser.
-34 pilot jet.
-74 main jet.
-Malossi single layer foam filter (in stock airbox, and that weird raised air intake/snorkel has been removed).
-Tecnigas silent pro exhaust (derestricted).

Bike will do 82 km/h indicated on the flat (just over 45mph GPS speed), 90 km/h downhill (49 mph GPS speed), but it goes really well up to 75 km/h indicated, and will still go 75km/h indicated up some reasonable hills.

There is still odd behaviour on overrun, but less often. I will inspect the torque driver (which might be sticking). I feel like I'm 90% there. So it's either the A23 or A24 needle that I need.


Dellorto A series needles.



Last edited by OscarSass on Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:36 am; edited 2 times in total
Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:54 pm

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Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:54 pm linkquote
Nice work!
Would you tell me the brand of the brake master cylinder?
Thanks
Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:59 am

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Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:59 am linkquote
Lord Ickenham wrote:
Nice work!
Would you tell me the brand of the brake master cylinder?
Thanks
Thanks.

The original part was superseded by this, which is what I installed.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/brake-master-cylinder-piaggio-right_PI56008R
Thu Jul 28, 2022 4:18 am

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Thu Jul 28, 2022 4:18 am linkquote
I hoped, there is a cheeper aftermarker brand. But, thank you!
OscarSass wrote:
Thanks.

The original part was superseded by this, which is what I installed.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/brake-master-cylinder-piaggio-right_PI56008R
Thu Jul 28, 2022 4:32 am

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Thu Jul 28, 2022 4:32 am linkquote
Lord Ickenham wrote:
I hoped, there is a cheeper aftermarker brand. But, thank you!
There might be. I never checked.

Thing is, there's a hole in the handlebar to locate the whole assembly. I just wanted something guaranteed to fit, so that I have no issues re-assembling the dashboard...

...and something reputable (ie OEM). Going is one thing... stopping is another!

PS - GREETINGS! I been through Hungary when cycling from Vienna to Budapest along the Danube. Great trip. 👍👍
Thu Jul 28, 2022 4:34 am

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Thu Jul 28, 2022 4:34 am linkquote
Absolutely!
OscarSass wrote:
There might be. I never checked.

Thing is, there's a hole in the handlebar to locate the whole assembly. I just wanted something guaranteed to fit, so that I have no issues re-assembling the dashboard...

...and something reputable (ie OEM). Going is one thing... stopping is another!
Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:43 pm

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Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:43 pm linkquote
So, after a mechanical failure of sorts (https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic180830), I went on to order some replacement bits...

...which arrived, and one looked a little different. Hmm.

A "CIF" branded kit arrived, an all in one solution consisting of:
-Outer pulley
-Fan
-Castle washer
-Nut

I noted that the outer pulley was thicker than standard... and had an outer ring (on the fan side). Looked like an outer pulley for bikes upto 1998, yet the rest of the kit was for bikes from 1998 onwards. Hmm.

The packaging had the right year on it, so I thought I'd give it a go.

It was sh*t. The outer pulley being the culprit - thicker, which meant that the kick starter had to be omitted.... but worse still, the outer 'locating' ring didn't actually locate the fan. All it did was push the fan towards the cover, causing it to rub.

Initially the bike was difficult to start - thought it might be that E10 fuel sitting in the tank. Turns out it was the fan touching the cover. The bike still ran... albeit with a bit of plastic rubbing here and there.

Good news, retailer has agreed to send me the correct part for my bike after I provided photographic evidence the part was wrong. Not only that, a new fan and nut will accompany it. That makes good business sense. 👍

So, if anyone is wondering what the wrong outer pulley looks like, see below.

Also, I noticed I was getting a bit of wear (a notch at the top belt position) on the variator face. Plus the rollers were showing signs of wear, and there was a bit of scoring on the backing plate. Thought it were felicitous to replace that too. Lastly, I felt that 5.7g rollers weren't quite light enough so 5.3g rollers are on the way.

So, a whole new front: pulley/variator/weights are being installed. May as well given how much faff I've had to go through so far. Hopefully this is all staying on for a few years.


Pulley, which I believe is for bikes upto 1998.


Fan not fitting correctly, due to wrong pulley being supplied. You can see rubbing marks on the fan. Fewer threads showing on the crank due to the excessive thickness of the pulley.


Wear on old variator face.


600 miles of wear on Malossi 5.7g rollers.

Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:06 pm

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Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:06 pm linkquote
The scratches on the rollers are unusual for me.
Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:09 pm

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Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:09 pm linkquote
Scratches on the rollers are interesting. The marks on the variator half look normal. Is it smooth outer to inner? So long as they're just marks, and not actually dips from friction, I wouldn't have a problem running it.
Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:35 pm

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Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:35 pm linkquote
Lord Ickenham wrote:
The scratches on the rollers are unusual for me.
Well - the bike effectively wasn't serviced from new (various clues of that when I got it back!), so perhaps the variator plate(s) might have faired better if the original rollers were swapped earlier, and someone had bothered to get in there and give it a clean.

That said, nothing suggested to me that the new ones were getting flat spots anywhere. They do wear - how much is normal I don't know.

I'll keep an eye on the new shiny bits and report back though. 🤞🤞

Last edited by OscarSass on Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:49 pm

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Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:49 pm linkquote
MJRally wrote:
Scratches on the rollers are interesting. The marks on the variator half look normal. Is it smooth outer to inner? So long as they're just marks, and not actually dips from friction, I wouldn't have a problem running it.
Just a tiny dip from friction - place the variator on a flat edge, you can see the wear. Absolutely nothing worrying - just a bit of wear at the top. Will keep as a spare.

Thing is, the bike is spending a lot more time at top speed now due to use out of town, so I guess that will happen. There were rubber marks there previously, but never noticed the dip.

Thought I'd replace both, given I was replacing the pulley side anyway. Really don't want to take it apart again - this is it (for a few years) hopefully. 😇

Ps - red thread lock worked a treat. That nut was not coming loose by itself again. 🤣

Last edited by OscarSass on Sat Aug 13, 2022 6:43 am; edited 1 time in total
Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:46 am

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Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:46 am linkquote
What the outer pulley should look like:

Comparison of new (wrong) part, and new (right) parts. OEM would certainly have a better finish to it... but anyway:


Pre-98 "CIF" on the left, post-98 "101 Octane" on the right. See the overall depth difference?


Pre-98 on the top, post-98 on the bottom. No 'locating' ring which means the fan can actually do its job (without rubbing itself to death).

Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:38 am

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Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:38 am linkquote
New variator, new top speed, and no more over-run issues:

This is an RMS branded part. It came with 7.5g rollers in the box, which I swapped for 5.3g rollers.

Combined with with new outer pulley, I'm getting a genuine 50mph on the flat (though that last 5mph takes a bit of time to get to). So I'm getting 90km/h indicated. Greasing the torque driver must have helped too (I suspected it was sticking).

The new outer pulley (previous post) has a continuous slope to it. The original piaggio pulley flattened towards the end. This might mean it helps get more belt travel... but there's probably more to it. The new variator must help too.

Most importantly, no more weird dead throttle on over-run. All I can think is that the old variator, or torque driver was sticking somehow? I'll take it for some longer runs, but so far it's very smooth and I have a lot better throttle control (the engine doesn't feel locked to the rear wheel - ie when I let off the throttle, the revs drop). For under £30 it was a very good purchase, and greasing the torque driver was worth it too (although I cocked it up slightly).. 👍

I may have over-greased my torque driver bearings slightly though 🙈 (clutch was slipping), so took the bell off and found grease inside it. Wiped the excess off from inside the torque driver. Gave the bell and pads a thorough sand and clean. Now it bites very nicely - yeehah! Will monitor.

Now that all of the kit is working properly - I'm now finding the 5.3g rollers are too light. Will go back to 5.7 at some point (when I install a new clutch).

Perhaps the failed nut was a good thing. I had the opportunity to replace the pulley & variator and get the torque driver moving smooothly. Bike really goes now. 👍


RMS replacement variator (complete, including guides, backing plate and rollers).



Last edited by OscarSass on Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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