Modern Vespa

Yes I understand that some parts last longer than others, but there is of course a difference in gross damage or superficial damage. Buying the oil pump is not the biggest problem, it is mounting it. Everything comes with extra costs such as a tractor to remove the plate from the vario to get to the oil pump. I don't know yet if there is damage to the crankshaft position itself because the pin in it is broken. I will first look at all the damage and determine what I definitely need .Money unfortunately does not grow on my back haha.

Well today I finally managed to get the piston pin loose. Luckily I don't see any damage to the crankshaft. I don't trust the piston anymore because it has 2 impact points in the corners, probably because the piston has risen further and bumped into something.

Piaggio has crazy prices. A piston costs 198 euros and a complete set is 258 euros. Always thought that the cylinder is more expensive than the piston. So I buy a complete set because then I get rid of the bad feeling.

For now thanks everyone for the help and advice. I'll be back when I'm ready, and will Then make an overview for someone who may also have this problem.

Have you checked to see if Malossi sells a piston kit?

Yes, it is also available for the HPE. But I don't know if the original cylinder head will fit, I certainly don't want to buy it. And I have read that it does not provide extra power, but it does last longer, and possibly also less oil consumption. But the amounts differ between 340 and 550 euros, so I'll stick to the original.

I think if you install new rings and a new jug, and perform 5K oil services (with the proper recommended oil) then it should cut down on the oil burn. Keep in mind that the oil rings need to be installed 120 apart, kinda of like the Mercedes star if that makes sense

These newer bikes can only pass emissions by not burning oil.

So I don't know whether the oil consumption will be less after a new cylinder and piston. It should of course, but because the engine already consumes oil from new. Robot from youtube the vespa specialist has also said more often that they consume too much oil My previous mp3 really didn't consume any oil and after 5000km it was still up to standard.Yes thanks for your advice,I've experienced that mistake once with a 50cc haha.The piston and cylinder weren't happy with it.I also first put the piston in the cylinder to the last ring and then I put it on the crankshaft, then I have not messed with those rings. I will order it all next week and then assemble it.

might not be any consolation, but my 2020 500 hpe sport went in for the brake recall at 4800 kms and I asked them to change the oil at the same time, asked the tech how was the oil, he said it had not moved, but he says change every 5000 kms even though the manual of small words says different, think Sbaert is right on the oil being ever so important

Oil consumption on a new motorcycle? Broken piston pin? Where is this world going? I have been repairing cars and motorcycles for 30 years. I have to tell you that oil has nothing to do with it. Recently, all the components of cars and motorcycles are made of shit and sticks. Here is the reason.

Could you tell me if yours brakes differently or does something weird when braking? Mine didn't have to go back because it wasn't in the list. I occasionally had mine brakes more on 1 side than on the other side.

It's true that the 500 had no problem with the oil but only the 300. I don't know what piaggio has done with these engines but I don't think it is good. I think hpe stands for high problem engine.

I would like to admit that you are right, but unfortunately I don't know enough about that. Think that my problem also had to do with the oil. I do know that I always topped up on time, never drove into the red, drive the engine always warms up first. So I think I am now the victim of a production error.

No need to blame yourself.

However, I've learned through decades of experience working on vehicles that the Italian ones are almost as delicate as children. They require constant attention.

They want the best of everything and when they don't get what they want they put up a tantrum. I'll let you interpret that one.

As for the brake pulling to one side, try bleeding the system first. Be aware, they are linked brakes, and it takes at least 1/2Liter to flush it, sometimes even a little more. Also be warned that if any air enter the ABS unit it will lock up the ABS which can only fixed by a dealer with the PADS diagnostic equipment.

I flush the brakes, tilt lock, and coolant every year without exception. And I push fluid through the system. I never pull the system from a bleeder valve, such as the common MityVac hand pump. Having a helper is pretty much a must.

I think that interpretation is correct, only piaggio has not made the perfect mp3 in the past and to date. When I look at a few forums I only see problems with the mp3. From broken tilt lock to the transmission whose gears no longer had teeth. Of course some people will do little or no maintenance and then cry when it is broken. But in many cases I think it is problems from production.

My front brake is now good again because I had placed new blocks and greased the cylinder with copper grease (it was completely dry). But I was worried because the braking sometimes felt like it was doing it itself. When you use your front brake you hear a kind of rattle tick and I sometimes heard that without braking.

The new mp3 i saw does look sexy but 15,000 euros is not worth it to me. I think there will be problems with that too.

Don't think these problems are limited to Piaggio.

Alfa Romeo, Fiat, Maserati, Lamborghini, Ferrari, they all have problems.

I call it spaghetti engineering, although Lamborghini has come a LONG way since being in the hands of Audi/VW. It seems like the engineering is now German or at least requires approval from Germany, and they only leave the design and styling to Italy which is perfect. You buy Italian shoes for looks, not for comfort or durability.

And yes, I expect the new MP3 530 to be much more of a electronic problem child than prior generations but mechanically it is still pretty much the same stuff from almost 20 years ago.

I find it sad they still haven't given the new MP3 a decent rear suspension with monoshock, especially at these stuuuupid prices. The Honda Forza750 is a bargain in comparison, and blows it away in the performance, reliability, and cost of ownership departments.

glad you got it all sorted, my brakes where just spongy and had to have a good pull all the way back to stop, once totally flushed by recall, hardly touch the brake lever to stop obviously need more pressure the more the speed goes up or 2 up, but light hearted around the city is 1 fingered braking both sides, document below well worth reading, gives the whole procedure.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2022/RCRIT-22V217-5898.pdf

Yes that is true, but for such an expensive car you at least expect those problems to be solved. Piaggio has been around for so long that they have mastered most problems, you would say. Probably also cheaper parts and faster production, because it has to keep rolling off the belt.The scooter shop near me has the new mp3 next month, I want to test it how it rides. Many new options that could actually be present on the previous mp3.

Yes, luckily I no longer had that problem with the brakes. But I also didn't know what was wrong with the ones that were recalled. But I have read your pdf and men what a job they have performed. So it was purely due to the brake not responding well because he received too much air or too little oil. Fortunately, yours also brakes safely, that's the most important thing on a motorcycle.

I think of Piaggio's product line in the same way as Apple's product line. You either go for it based strictly on the name, or the looks. But if you peak underneath it appears very quickly that it was pretty much just cobbled together with the cheapest parts without any real regard to worry free long term ownership (5+ years).

And in the same way you have people who refuse to use anything other than Apple products, you have people who refuse anything other than a MP3. These are the people who don't know or care that there are options and that those options are better for the most part.

I posted a link a couple of days ago of 2 prominent French motorcycles mags comparing the new MP3 against the new Kymco CV3. Both voted for the Kymco as their pick. Why is this signficant? France is the #1 market for the Piaggio MP3. I think Piaggio should be worried, and immediately start working on a true maxi scoot specifically one with more than 1 piston and better suspension vs. electronic fluff/junk like a rear backup camera instead of another case of the same old design that is nearing 20 years now.

Sadly all they are trying to do with the electronic stuff is get more cash out of our pocket, I would rather save that cash for petrol

The MP3 is simply a beautiful machine, but they are not really strong. A simple blow to the front wheels and your fork is already bent a bit. It is certainly a shame that they are now going to build in all that electronics, because that costs more and more.

Just received all the parts, so I'll start building this week. I hope for good luck and that everything will work well again.

There I am again. I have mounted everything and the mp3 runs again without any ticking sound. So it was really only the piston pin that was broken. Now I have topped up the coolant again but it keeps coming out of the expansion tank when I leave the cap off. I vented via the thermostat but only liquid comes out. So there is still air somewhere that I can't get out. So I will have to drain it again and refill it again. It never goes as it should with an mp3

Did you loosen the coolant bleeder valve on the head? This is a must do. Otherwise, it will cause damage to the head (overheating due to air trapped inside the head). Only loosen the bleeder, no need to remove the bleeder needle entirely.

I use a section of aquarium hose that runs from the (loosened) bleeder valve to the coolant expansion tank fill neck during the coolant bleed process.

Only when there are no further air bubbles coming from the bleeder is it safe to retighten the valve

Yes I did that until liquid came out, air did come out first. But I haven't had the engine on for long so the thermostat may not have gone up yet.

The problem is that this breather doesn't have a nipple but a ring with a torx 3, so I can't connect that hose.

The past when I bled a scooter I always squeezed the on and outlet hoses until the level was right. But the hoses weren't hot yet either. I'll try again tomorrow.

Ok, and make sure you only run G12 spec coolant mixed 50/50 with distilled/demineralized water (unless you buy premixed).

I use VW/Audi G12+ coolant.

Yes I have the same coolant that was already in it, it's already mixed and ready to use. But I've never had any problems with coolant itself. I drove my car on 3 quarts of water for a year, the only drawback is that it will rust in some places. It is better to never mix because some gaskets and rings can not stand it.

Well the worst has happened. When loosening the bleed nipple, the torx broke off in the bolt. There is no way to get it out because it is completely flat. The only solution is drilling, but if that goes wrong, it becomes a new cylinder head. Really everything about this stupid thing goes wrong. It's a miracle that it just runs well. So I can't go on without getting that bolt out.

Does anyone happen to know if the length of the nipple in the cylinder head is the same as that of the thermostat? They don't sell the cylinder head nipple on easyparts, but they do sell that of the thermostat.

before you start drilling have you tried a strong neo magnet, if you have any old computer hard disks floating around open them up some good strong magnets inside sometimes

That's certainly a smart idea. But I think I already ruined it by trying to loosen it with a pair of needle-nose pliers. I also put pressure first so it wouldn't spin, so it's firmly in place. But before I start drilling, I'm going to try it with a strong magnet, I still have a few of those. Really stupid that this happened, should have made sure I used the new bit.

Well, there is a another solution without needing to worry about bleeder screws, air pockets, etc or in your case removing the head & cylinder jug again.

The solution is to vacuum fill your cooling system, the same way they do at automotive factories.

The quickest coolant fill you'll ever see in your life.

That is a nice system. Especially because you then know that there is no more air in it. If you do this daily then it is very handy.

I continued today and unfortunately the drilling was not successful. The drill continues to shift next to the broken bit. I already ruined it by drilling 2 small holes. The bolt is still there and luckily no leaks.

But because I don't just give up, I continued to look at the system and tried again to bleed it. Strangely enough, the whole system is now warm. Coolant is also warm. Fan switches on and switches off again, the temperature also remains in the middle. If there were still air in the cylinder, the temperature would rise high and the fan would not have a function either. Drove a few rounds and everything remained good then. The air must be out by now, otherwise it would overheat.

Let's keep fingers crossed.

Be aware that you will have to break in the engine as if it had zero kms on the clock. That means no full throttle acceleration runs, no continuous running at a fixed rpm.

What is needed are lots of stop and go and gradually increase the rpms as you near the 1K mark.

After 1K distance has been covered, do a full oil service. Ditto on checking coolant level and oil contamination.

well might as well get a small dremel disk on it now, and turn it into a flathead screwdriver if you can, or a drop ,of superglue on the broken end and see if it sticks enough to pull the broken part out

yes I know you have to drive in. But it's not fun haha. I also avoid highways for a while. I will now check oil much more often. Also be sure to check that it doesn't drop. I also keep an eye on coolant. This should stay the same now, if nothing is leaking. I can first hope that I can reach 1000km

I was thinking about this too, but I think I screwed up trying to get it off. It's really an annoying place to recover. And the bolt itself I did a lot of work on, it looks like a child has been working with a drill. But if I have the mp3 at home I have some more resources to work with, so maybe what you say will still work.

Good on you if you got the system bled without any remaining air pockets.

If I were in your shoes, now that the system is free of air, I would once a year only suck out the expansion tank and refill with fresh coolant, wait a week, and repeat the same cycle over a 4-5 week stretch.

That way, you'll never have to deal with this cumbersome bleeding procedure and you'll have fresh coolant in there year round without ever going through this painful route again.

Takes less than 5 minutes and is a sub 5 Euro investment (some aquarium tubing and some coolant)

Yes, not only the cylinder and piston were a burden to assemble, but nobody expects something like this to happen during venting.

That's a good idea not to let it drain but to suck it out. Coolant can last up to 5 years, but it is always recommended to replace it every 2 years.

I think I was lucky with the bleeding and that everything has disappeared through the expansion tank and bleed nipple. I drove another 20 km yesterday and everything remained as it once was. Then checked the oil and it still looked good. Coolant was also up to standard so it looks good. Can I call myself an MP3 mechanic now?

Correct, replace coolant every 2 years as well as the brake fluid (incl. tilt lock) regardless of usage conditions or distance covered. FWIW, when I stated to suck out coolant I meant only what is inside the expansion tank hence the need to repeat the cycle a handful of times. That is the only way to keep air from entering the cooling system.

And check oil level every 2 weeks at a minimum to avoid a repeat performance.

As far as being a MP3 mechanic, it's a career choice I don't wish on anyone

I'm a car mechanic, and I'd go nuts if I was working exclusively with MP3s just because some of the basic flaws such as the exposed bearings and lack of proper greasing were never addressed at the factory.

Basically, Piaggio doesn't care because they know the lions share will find a sucker (errr I mean buyer) in places like Paris and once it passes the 2 year minimum legal warranty period it is no longer their problem and the owner is left holding the bag and the accompanying repair bills.

In my case, I bought mine pretty much brand new (only 24km on the dial) but it had a mystery rattle from the front end that drove me crazy. Well, the solution ended up being a a complete teardown only to find some loose fasteners and a main wiring harness that was so poorly installed the rubber boot at the instrument cluster couldn't keep water or dust out at the first sign of water or dust exposure. I dodged the bullet on that one, but goes to show that lack of quality control still continues to plague Italian vehicles of all shapes and sizes.

When was the last time the Italians were in the top 10 list of owner satisfaction such as JD Power, Consumer Reports, and the like? I can't remember that ever happening unless you hold the list upside down

Just sayin'

yeah i just hope i never have to vent again haha. I will eventually try to get the air screw out for the next time I change it.

I think I'm going to check the oil every day after driving now. A warned person counts for 2.

Haha yes exactly, I wouldn't advise anyone to become an mp3 mechanic. Those things are designed so that if it breaks you throw it away and buy another one. If you want to fix it anyway, you need a lot of patience. I myself have often tinkered with cars, but everything is so heavy and large that nothing is easy for me. But I find repairing a car more satisfying because you immediately see the result.

I know exactly what you mean, if I hear something rattle or tick then I have to find it too, because it irritates you while driving. And sometimes the problem is so small that it shouldn't have happened in the first place.

It's true that Piaggio doesn't lubricate everything. When I picked mine up from the store, everything was dry, the brake pads, linkage system, and transmission housing oil was low. That says enough about the production, everything has to be done quickly without thinking about the possible buyer.

Honestly, I really think you are looking for trouble if you're going to try to get that screw out.

You got away with murder once, don't expect to be that lucky again. Just remove the coolant from the expansion tank and replace only that portion over a period of a few weeks. It only costs a couple of Euro for some aquarium hose and a few minutes of your time.

No need to check oil level every day either. Just do it with every fuel fillup or 2 at the most. That should be more than enough to give you a idea if and how much oil it is burning future forward.

I have had all sorts of cars. My Saab, a Jaguar and a Fiat were the ones that were easiest to own. The Saab and the Jaguar because the dealerships were awesome and covered a lot and were thorough, te Fiat Uno because I was a perennially broke student and it went basically maintenance free for years. It was indestructible - other than by rust...

Worst car ever was a Mercedes ML430 (it was my wife's), they just nursed it shamelessly until the first service until the warranty ran out, and then it was thousands and thousands. Not a fan of my BMWs either. Luckily always leased, but definitely high maintenance. Drive well, but can't imagine it being fun after warranty runs out (and that's common with our over electronically-aided vehicles in general these days).

Motorcycle wise, I had a Ducati 916 that indeed was terrible but beautiful, yet also a Moto Guzzi that was absolutely awesome. I have had several BMW boxers, and love my BMW R1100S. The latter has been with me for 21 years, and has never ever let me down.

My experience with the MP3 500 isn't bad. There seem to be day to day small annoyances with stuff being shaken lose, but all in all it has been quite dependable. It's not a cheap product for what it is, even in the USA with the parts lottery. Build-quality wise it is definitely not on par with the Honda NC750X with DCT (no Forza in the USA last I checked).

The Mercedes ML series is known as the Alabama trash can among MB fans like myself.

As for your MP3 experience, it's still a young thing. Let's revisit this again at around 10 years of age, but don't expect it do near 1/4 century like your GS.

Hahaha you give a text with a background. Nicely worded But you are right, if I choose that way as you say, little can happen. This is also best done when the cylinder head is off, and since it has just been put back on I'll leave it like that. Have already driven 110km and it still runs great. It is currently quite warm days here, and the fan has been on 1x during busy periods on the road. So the air is definitely out now.