Modern Vespa

Few day old post but, that slide groove is a controlled air leak, leans out mixture in that throttle position range. Raw air is allowed to come in through a different passage, oblong opening on the top of carburetor. On my Stella I went to a flat slide as I'd rather be a little rich than lean. Not to mention I had changed every jet and atomizer anyway. Tuning tool without having to create another atomizer.

No much of an update, but something is better than nothing.

I received a new aluminum plate in the mail for the scooter. I have no idea where the old one went. When I bought the scooter there were four holes drilled for it, but the plate was missing.

Maybe I'll have more updates in another 6 months? At this rate I should be finish sometime in the 25th century...

A 61 with a P200 engine. I LOVE IT!

I did a little bit of switching things up under the floorboards and with the exhaust...

Originally (on page 2) i had a stainless reinforcement plate under the centerstand and a Sito+ exhaust. But that was back when i still had the 200cc engine in the Allstate (there's now a 60mm crank, so a 208cc). I ended up finding my old stainless JL Right hand pipe on my shelf and decided to use it on this project. There were a few snafus though. For one, the JL that that was on my shelf had been modified to be upswept quite a bit, so there's no way that the cowl would fit unless i hacked away at it (the cowl). The other issue was that the centerstand was fouling out against the expansion chamber portion of the pipe...and so was the centerstand return spring...and so was one of the centerstand feet. I ended up buying a fancy looking stainless MRP centerstand reinforcement relocation plate. It made it much easier to package EVERYTHING under there! It still took quite a few hours of cutting and pasting (grinding and welding) the P series centerstand tabs to be in the exact place where i wanted them (because i'm using a P series centerstand). I ended up using a SIP exhaust spring hanger to relocate the centerstand spring so that it doesn't rub against anything. All that fitting took hours and hours and hours to get just right.


MRP plate https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/main-stand-offset-mrp_22159634

MRP plate with the centerstand mocked up

SIP exhaust spring hanger repurposed to be a centerstand spring hanger

hours spent tack welding and then grinding off tack welds before i could find the sweet spot to fit P series centerstand brackets.

The JL Right got some loving as well. SIP sells a weld on O-ring manifold thingy in a stainless version. I ended up taking it over to my friend's house so that he could weld it up with his TIG. I wasn't about to attempt to weld it with my spool gun!


the original piece that slips on over the cylinder exhaust stub got cut off.

the stainless SIP piece that gets welded into place. There's a groove for an O ring, so no exhaust spooge for me!

i lucked out that the SIP piece fit perfectly over my JL.

I had to buy a new silencer (end can) for the pipe. The old one had been cut and turned so it wouldn't fit this scooter.

made an exhaust hanger bracket out of a piece of 3/16" wall square tube 316 stainless alloy. Stainless can be just about impossible to drill unless you have expensive drill bits!

How the JL pipe and centerstand fit (more like didn't fit) when i first mocked everything up.

Nicely done Fab wizard!

I'm diggin' it!

I cheat and just use mild steel for my fabrication. I fabbed up my own centerstand relocation plate for my GL, which was a lot of work, but also good welding practice.

Do you know if SIP make that exhaust flange in mild steel, or just stainless?

Yes, they make in both a mild and stainless. You could also just buy the stainless flange and weld it to a mild steel exhaust with a standard welding wire. That would be very simple to do, plus you would still get the benefit of having the upper portion of your exhaust not rusting.

Stainless- https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/exhaust-connector-manifold-section-sip-performance_13014210?cr=e993ab67-6807-4109-bbed-f6374ebf9f9b&gclid=CjwKCAjwtp2bBhAGEiwAOZZTuMZjDx-F0S9I_EWfZo5DyHoeZ0oef2C0P2MXek8A8wMuxBdfCiHARBoC6WIQAvD_BwE

mild steel- https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/exhaust-connector-manifold-section-sip-performance_13014200

spare O ring that fits either flanges- https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/o-ring-exhaust-flange-exhaust_13014392

Since i'm converting over to an "oiler" engine, i need to do something about a choke cable. The original location won't work for me because the oil tank reservoir is directly in the way of the back side of the choke pull bracket. After reading multiple postings on the web i decided to go my own route. I used a spot weld cutter to drill out the spot welds in the bracket. I'm not a fan of JB weld, but my plan is to JB Weld the choke bracket in the standard lower location (same place as all the autolube P series). I mixed up a test sample of JB on a couple metal coupons that i stuck together. I'll let it cure up (in this cold weather) for a few days and then see how difficult they are to pry apart. If it's difficult to do, then great. If not, then i'll plan B it.








The premix Allstate bracket is on the top. The P series autolube bracket is on the bottom. Notice the difference angles of the flat backer piece that's welded (or maybe it's brazed) to the tube.

FYI, this is the original location of the choke pull on an autolube P series.

I started on the choke bracket relocation today...until i realized i had no rattle can primer in my shop. So everything is on hold until then. But here are a few pics of what got done.


i put some blue tape on the frame and marked with a pencil where i wanted to put the hole.



That's a 2" diameter stainless steel washer that i bent to match the contour of the frame.





i used a grinder to roughen up the washer. It will make the JB weld adhere much better...in theory.

clamping the bracket to the washer

getting ready to weld the two together...





and with the bracket installed in the frame, this is about how much of the nubbin will protrude from the frame.

I also used a grinder to roughen up the inside of the frame for the JB weld to stick.

Wow, very, very nice!

And this is more or less what Chris would have to do if he wanted to install a factory oil tank reservoir in his GS. It's definitely not plug and play, but i think it's well within any shade tree mechanic. It isn't difficult, especially when you can look as someone else's pictures. Hopefully the JB Weld will adhere strong enough! I should know later this week...

I prepainted the backside of the choke bracket a few days ago with rustoleum rattle can primer and off the shelf blue paint that somewhat matched the bike of the scooter. No, i didn't spray any of the areas where i slathered on the epoxy. The paint was set up enough this morning so i mixed up a small batch of epoxy. It was about 32 degrees in the shop, so i used a heat gun to warm up the vespa frame and choke bracket. I then smeared the ol JB onto both surfaces, and the pushed the two together until the epoxy oozed out the sides of the washer. I used a really long machine screw and some spacers to very lightly clamp the two together. We'll just have to wait a few days to see if this will work or not.




i smeared the epoxy with my gloved finger in order to smoother it out a bit.

various washers and a spacer tube that is holding the bracket in place

A heat lamp to help the epoxy set up. with a high temperature of 48 degrees and a low of 28, the heat will help the epoxy cure quite a bit quicker.

I think it will hold. Perfect use for JB weld. Beautiful scoot!

Agreed on the beauty.
Something about that era in blue.

If Jb cracks/fails - you could try adding a mesh metal screen around the perimeter - to create sort of a composite. Seems like you already have a lot of surface area on the flat - so suspect it won't be needed. Nice solution to avoid ruining paint...

A little touched up paint that really doesn't match and i'm calling the choke portion of this project done. I think the JB Weld will hold just fine over the long haul. Now i need to turn my attention back to making the front VBA fender fit the disc brake.


up close the paint isn't even close. But stand back 6' and it isn't even noticeable.

Just as a backstory, i've been trying to figure out how to fit the hydro disc brake and a PK shock to a PK fork WITHOUT fabricating some sort of bulge in the VBA mudguard (for clearance for the shock). I really gave it my best today, and came up with zilch. I known that lots and lots of people have done installed the exact same components in the past, but i'm getting the idea that i took a different path...

My wants and needs are simple...

- I don't want the bulge (i actually don't mind having a bulge, but i didn't want to have to repaint the mudguard after the bulge is welded in).

-I do not want any side load on the shock's piston rod during the entire cycling of the suspension stroke.

-I want the mudguard to be fairly centered.

So what i did today was add a fair amount of aluminum to the mudguard mounting on the PK's fork. I did this so that the rear hole on the mudguard has something to bolt into. Currently there was nothing beneath that hole. I also cut and turned the fork so that there wouldn't be any side load on the shock rod. After all of this work, i still think i will have to make that fender bulge...ugh


This was a piece of 5/8" thick aluminum that donated its corner to the fork.



I did a rough cut on the bandsaw

The welding went smoother than i thought it would!

I added a few rows of weld beads at the front of the fork as well. This was so i don't have to use spacer washer shims under the mudguard in that particular spot.

What it looks like after i sanded it down a little bit. You can also see that it's snowing. My barn is uninsulated, so it's just as cold inside as it is outside...all day today.

I also cut and turned the fork a few degrees. The lower pivot lug in the PK fork is NOT a tight fit...unlike the P/PK/Stella fork...which made it a pain in the butt to get that pivot lug welded back in perpendicular to the fork stem.
I also cut about 3/4" off the bottom of the fork. I didn't like how flat the angle was on the trailing link, so i decided to make it a steeper angle.

So at the end of the day after all that work, the shock still makes contact with both the side and top of the fender. I'm definitely going to mess around with shimming the fender with various heights of spacer washers, but i don't have high hopes.


This is how much i trimmed off the bottom of the fork (plus another 1/8"+ for the width of the chop saw blade).

I ended up using a different method to make sure the pivot link lug was perpendicular to the fork stem. I put the fork upside down in the vice and plumbed up all four sides using a shorty Stabila level. Pay no attention to the bubble in the pic.

And with the lug welded back in. Notice the drain hole that i drilled.

Yup, it was still just as cold this evening when i gave up for the day.

I have to get a working heat source for my garage. I have an electric heater that runs on 220 but haven't used it yet. I gradually get used to working in the cold and prefer it to summer heat.

Since i have a 12VDC VAPE in this scooter, i was eventually going to have to build a battery box. I also have a 12VDC VAPE in my PK125 project as well...with no place to put the battery just yet. For the past year i've been needing to buy a battery for my PK (so i can continue to finish wiring up the scooter), but i couldn't decide just which one to buy. I've had an old dead Shorai battery (out of my KTM 525) kicking around the shop, so i decided i could simply use that battery for sizing up a battery box to build...
...until i realized that i currently have a different brand battery (Anti Gravity) that i bought earlier this year...derp. That battery will be going into my KTM 640A, but why not just have one battery for three motos? So i simply used the Anti Gravity battery's dimensions time fab up two battery boxes (one for the Allstate and one for the PK).

I bought some 1/8" thick aluminum 4"x4" angle, 2" flat bar, and 5/16" round rod. I did all my cuts on the table saw and the miter saw.













Last edited by whodatschrome on Tue, 13 Dec 2022 03:02:16 +0000; edited 1 time

A few ugly welds later and the boxes are done. The rubber strap is from a KTM dirtbike. KTM has been using that exact same rubber piece as a battery strap, kickstand strap, and a emission charcoal canister strap since about forever (late 90's early 2000's?). I have a few extras kicking around my shop so i put them to use. I will still need to put some sort of 6mm spacer between the battery box and the frame. Lightweight and simple has been accomplished!

I've still been battling with the VBA mudguard to fit exactly how i want it. I did come across a picture during my google searching where a person modified their mudguard to mount directly to the brake caliper carrier (exactly like a SIP "hugger" mudguard). Aesthetics are up to whoever's looking at it, but there's no denying that it's a creative way of fitting the mudguard! And when you look twice (or maybe 4x?) then you'll notice that the mudguard is mounted to a 20mm Cosa fork (note that the hydro portion of the drum brakes have been bypassed and converted to a standard manual drum brake). What interests me the most about the front end is that there looks to be more room to fit a Cosa fork in an older Vespa. Reason being is that the upper shock mount doesn't utilize a upper shock mount plate like the PX or PK. Which would mean that it would (or should or could?) be easier to fit a narrow VBA mudguard over the top of it.

Anyhow, here are the pics i found. Enjoy. https://www.vespamag.com/en/679/origin-of-the-vespa




I would think a 20mm disc brake could be fitted onto a Cosa fork?

Disc brake is a direct fit on a Cosa fork. Here's my friend's Cosa II with a 50:50 system. Inside the horn cover there's a Grimeca cable operated pump (Piaggio Typhoon, the ones Crimaz uses, etc.)...

John - u r scratching my resto fab itch with ur threads! Love these.

The Allstate mudguard looks to me to be the same as a VBB or 150 of that era. They are not bad for volume - so I like the keeping of that.

Im not sure that the three things:
- no side load on shock = straight up and down
- center mud guard on wheel
- no repaint

I solved on mine by allowing 1&2.
But I optimized a bit to minimize both.
1. I slotted the shock (top hole I think) to allow it to tilt back in and sit closer to the fork tube at the top. I also modified the top mount to move it inboard.
2. I allowed the mudguard to sit on the center of the whole package rather then just the tire.

My OCD was causing me to tick at the time about 2, but when it was complete and on the scooter - that alignment actually looked nice from the front - because your eye picks up more then just the wheel.

Tho I understand why u don't want that.

It allowed me to avoid repaint.

Of course - you could always mod the side of the mudguard and repaint.
Looks like u have a GS style spare guard in your collection.
I tried that too - but found it too round for my aesthetic. But if u like - couldn't u mod that one and then paint it - so as not to trash your original?

Socal turned me on to these color matched spray paint cans. I'd use their single stage one for yours. They are $25 each. U would need 1-2 cans to do really nice job.
Maybe u already know about it.
Not duplicolor- but I can't recall brand.

Socal?

I have no opinion on how to fit the mudguard, but would stick with the VBA if possible as those curves are iconic. Repainting's not an issue, color can be matched and topped with Spray Max 2k for hardness and gloss. Or heck, send it down to me and I'll give it a spray for ya.


Before

After

That mudguard came out quite nicely SoCal! I enjoy doing my own painting, but the bad part about that is my location...i live in the PacNW were it seems like it's perpetually 35 to 60 degrees 9 months out of the year...and rainy...and i have no paint booth. Which means any painting i do is during the summertime.

I do have about a half-pint of the correct color. It's PPG DCC Concept paint. It's a single stage paint and it's a really nice product...except that it's now an obsolete paint, so the catalyst is not available anymore. I contacted one of my friends at his bodyshop, and he thinks he might have some catalyst that might work. I'm also out of primer and catalyst for that as well. I do have plenty of primer surfacer through. So i'll probably just wait until june or july to paint the fender.

I REALLY feel as though i reached a milestone on the Allstate today. I have disliked the way the mudguard was mounted from day one (back when it was still a semi-hydro brake system). I've been trying to sort out a solution for at least 3 years...and the past 2 years i've been VERY proactive on sorting it out.

Even though i really didn't want to slice and dice the mudguard, i went for broke and dived right in...

I started out with drilling a 1.5" hole right where the top of the stem mount of the shock fouls out against the mudguard. By doing that, it created enough space to fit a stock PKXL shock. But i assume that at some point i'll probably want to swap in an aftermarket shock, and the aftermarket SIP shocks have a much larger outside diameter coil spring on the shock body. In layman's terms it meant more slicing.


1.5" hole dead center of shock stem.

i had to weld up one of the 6mm holes before i went any further.

I also welded up the two holes that are circled with black ink.

The spring is removed so that i can cycle the suspension.

The shock protrudes quite a bit...and that's with the spring removed.

I had a piece of 2" stainless steel tube that i used to make the bulge. I took a slice out of it and reformed the 2" diameter into a 3". I took plenty of time welding it up so that i could minimize heat distortion...and stainless distorts big time when compared to mild steel!








view of the back side

Another view of the backside after sanding down the welds.

What the exterior looks like after a bunch of sanding.

and another angle of the exterior

Plenty of clearance for the spring...once i install it of course.

mudguard mod looks good! Bat tray's are trick too! I dig those Antigravity batteries SO much.

And some glamour shots with the fender mocked back up in the scooter. I didn't really want the street racer look of a fender bulge on this particular scooter, but it did come out quite nice so i have zero complaints. I think the bulge will definitely grow on me...yes, i had to go there.










There plenty of clearance between the back of the mudguard and the legshield...more than what the picture depicts.

Accidental bonus...i can fit a wrench on the top of the shock stem nut!

Holy smokes - this is some A+ level fab work!

You also solved a problem I was pondering on the battery box - the KTM strap looks perfect!

Thank you for the compliment. The project has been pretty fun. My goal is to have it completed this coming spring time. And as a FYI the part number for the battery strap is ktm 50303018000.

I started on installing a SIP DC conversion wire harness in the Allstate, but i had to take a step back and figure out where exactly to fit my ignition key switch. I could have hidden it inside the left side panel cowl, but since my scooter is 12VDC, i didn't want to open the the door every time i started or stopped the engine.

I ended up deciding to mount the ignition in the same spot as the 1974 Rally 200 has its ignition...which is next to the helmet hook. I drilled a 7/8" hole and then simply installed the P200 4 pole key switch...then quickly realized that i would need to fabricate something to keep the whole ignition switch from possible (more like probably) rotate in the hole i just drilled. After a week of brain storming and farting, i came up with a VERY simple solution...


P200 switch and P series helmet hook and backing plate. Notice the 90 degree piece of stainless sheetmetal that i made. I used green, red, and white paint markers to color the poles.

I assembled the switch and helmet hook in the frame, then held the 90* bracket where it needed to be and made a few marks with a Sharpie pen, and two tack welds later it was done.



I can bend the tab just a smidge to make it all a very tight fit with zero play.

It may look a little bodgey, but i feel as though the key is in the most intuitive place that it could be located on my particular build.

I'm diggin' it.

It came time to choose a horn to use, so i went over to my friend's shop to test a couple horns out. He had a brand new 6VDC horn, but it sounded pretty weak. I'm used to using the PX DC horns that make a distinctively loud BEEP. I ended up experimenting with a 12VDC PK horn from SIP. The horn WAS supposed to go on my PK135XL project, but it got drafted for the Allstate.

The first problem was that the backside of the horn had too large of a diameter to fit inside the horncast hole. The second problem is that the face of the horn shell is ugly as all get out. I ordering a bunch of hollow brass rivets off ebay for dirt cheap. I also ordered a vintage style chrome grill shell...and then accidentally peeled some of the chrome off in a few areas with my fingernail. At some point i might have to replace this new chrome grill with the Allstate's OG patina grill.






I drilled the shell off the DC PK horn.

A pic with the OG horn shell sitting on top of the PK horn.

The brass rivets were a pain in the butt to work with. I'm sure there's some tool out there to make it look professional?




I had to use various sockets and center punches to make it all happen.

This was the best that i could get the rivets to look. The four little mounting screws should hide most of the smooshings.

PK horn on the left, modified PK horn on the right.

Perhaps it was a sin, but i used a hole saw to quickly open up the diameter of the horncast's hole. I used a much smaller diameter hole saw first. I held the drill at an angle and took small "bites" all around the circumference of the hole. Next i used the correct sized hole saw and finished drilling the hole with the drill in reverse. Keep in mind that i have YEARS of experience with making hole saws do what hole saws aren't really supposed to do. It would be REALLY easy for things to go south and screw up a nice paint job!


I used this smaller diameter hole saw first.

The followed up with this hole saw...while drilling the hole in a reverse rotation. I made the hole diameter about 3/16" larger.

Finished product

I've wrapped a hole saw in emery cloth, using shoe goo to attach emery cloth. Then reamed hole a bit.