Mon, 14 Nov 2022 00:52:34 +0000

Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
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Ossessionato
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Mon, 14 Nov 2022 00:52:34 +0000 quote
SaFiS wrote:
Have them vapor blasted first…
I've never understood why. Is it for aesthetic purposes? I've found that just a good brushing down with straight gasoline works fine. They just get grungy again within a week.

Anyway, those cases look good.
OP
Mon, 14 Nov 2022 03:33:57 +0000

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Mon, 14 Nov 2022 03:33:57 +0000 quote
nomadinsiam wrote:
I've never understood why. Is it for aesthetic purposes? I've found that just a good brushing down with straight gasoline works fine. They just get grungy again within a week.

Anyway, those cases look good.
A couple reasons.
1. I think it leads to a better and more meticulous rebuild. Clean ass cases will inspire ya to chase threads and take the extra care you might not otherwise invest.

2. It's truly easier to spot case defects, cracks, weirdness, etc on vapor blasted cases.


MHO, YMMV, FWIW
Mon, 14 Nov 2022 03:36:43 +0000

Ossessionato
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Mon, 14 Nov 2022 03:36:43 +0000 quote
Birdsnest wrote:
A couple reasons.
1. I think it leads to a better and more meticulous rebuild. Clean ass cases will inspire ya to chase threads and take the extra care you might not otherwise invest.

2. It's truly easier to spot case defects, cracks, weirdness, etc on vapor blasted cases.

MHO, YMMV, FWIW
#2 two sounds very valid. I hadn't thought of that.
Mon, 14 Nov 2022 03:49:03 +0000

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Mon, 14 Nov 2022 03:49:03 +0000 quote
money spent on vapor blasting is less money for ham!

adios the kick starter and just bump start it. enjoyment from the ride AND a work out!
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Mon, 14 Nov 2022 14:47:15 +0000

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Mon, 14 Nov 2022 14:47:15 +0000 quote
If only I was 20 years younger.
Mon, 14 Nov 2022 20:08:51 +0000

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Mon, 14 Nov 2022 20:08:51 +0000 quote
#3 Vapor blasting "seals" the surfaces so they don't get dirty that easily anymore...

You're doing a pristine resto, it would be a shame for the engine to look like "crap" even cleaned up...
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Wed, 16 Nov 2022 18:41:49 +0000

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Wed, 16 Nov 2022 18:41:49 +0000 quote
Hmmm…

Important little paragraph from the service station manual regarding cage and conrods matching. Apparently SS and Rally don't follow the usual protocol.


The more you know…

Thu, 17 Nov 2022 05:39:45 +0000

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Thu, 17 Nov 2022 05:39:45 +0000 quote
Birdsnest wrote:
Hmmm…

Important little paragraph from the service station manual regarding cage and conrods matching. Apparently SS and Rally don't follow the usual protocol.
Where does one obtain a service station manual?
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Thu, 17 Nov 2022 14:24:05 +0000

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Thu, 17 Nov 2022 14:24:05 +0000 quote
There are some printed pdf copies for cheap on fleabay. OG manuals are tough to find, but come on market from time to time. PDF versions are out there on the webs for download... you have to dig, but I think most are out there.

EX -
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiezvjkzrX7AhXmk2oFHefMAx0QFnoECDwQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vespaforum.com%2Fmanuals%2FMore%2520Manuals%2FVespa%2FPX_150_Workshop.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0Z8hSKHls2VWrkhY0ec74m
Thu, 17 Nov 2022 16:27:06 +0000

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Thu, 17 Nov 2022 16:27:06 +0000 quote
This was/is my goto-

http://online.fliphtml5.com/qtjt/rbak/#p=14
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Thu, 17 Nov 2022 16:38:37 +0000

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Thu, 17 Nov 2022 16:38:37 +0000 quote
^^^
There it is... I knew it was out there somewhere!!!
Thu, 17 Nov 2022 17:26:15 +0000

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Thu, 17 Nov 2022 17:26:15 +0000 quote
Cool, thanks!
Thu, 17 Nov 2022 23:17:39 +0000

bodgemaster
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Thu, 17 Nov 2022 23:17:39 +0000 quote
Birdsnest wrote:
Hmmm…

Important little paragraph from the service station manual regarding cage and conrods matching. Apparently SS and Rally don't follow the usual protocol.
So a "4th category" con rod takes a "1st category" cage?!

That's some impressive product labeling logic.
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Thu, 17 Nov 2022 23:53:23 +0000

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Thu, 17 Nov 2022 23:53:23 +0000 quote
I assure you the production engineers did that on a Friday at like 4:30pm, drunk on Barolo and laughing hysterically as they wrote the copy for the service manuals. Fuckers.
Fri, 18 Nov 2022 01:54:26 +0000

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Fri, 18 Nov 2022 01:54:26 +0000 quote
dsnyder586 wrote:
I see it's missing pages 7-9. Just like my copy 😢
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Sat, 19 Nov 2022 17:55:07 +0000

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Sat, 19 Nov 2022 17:55:07 +0000 quote
Replacement cases being prepped…

The exhaust bolt is stuck in place and looks like it got pretty worked over at some point.

I have had penetrant on it for a few days now…
Is it reasonable to heat up the case and then try and use an impact wrench to remove?

Worried about rounding the head further and/or damaging the case with the power of the impact wrench.

Thoughts?


Stuck like chuck


Not much left on the bolt head

Sat, 19 Nov 2022 18:40:54 +0000

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Sat, 19 Nov 2022 18:40:54 +0000 quote
I would. Even worst case you drill and tap if it goes sideways
Sat, 19 Nov 2022 18:55:17 +0000

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Sat, 19 Nov 2022 18:55:17 +0000 quote
Without a doubt, get the bolt hot, hot, hot!!!...just like the Cure! Get out the propane torch and focus most of the heat on that bolt. The rest of the heat will dissipate to the cases which won't be a problem. You might have to repeat the process a couple times until the bolt comes out in one piece though.
Sat, 19 Nov 2022 18:59:46 +0000

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Sat, 19 Nov 2022 18:59:46 +0000 quote
Quote:
Is it reasonable to heat up the case and then try and use an impact wrench to remove?
No! Stop! Don't do it!

Heating the case is the wrong technique.

Like whodats says, you need to heat the bolt, not the case. Focus a MAPP torch on the bolt . Get it red hot then back it out back it slowly.
Sat, 19 Nov 2022 19:30:43 +0000

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Sat, 19 Nov 2022 19:30:43 +0000 quote
Yeah, don't pull a stunt like I did and break something. Next time I run across this issue that bolt is gonna be so hot it'll want to melt out of the hole
Sat, 19 Nov 2022 20:49:14 +0000

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Sat, 19 Nov 2022 20:49:14 +0000 quote
whodatschrome wrote:
Without a doubt, get the bolt hot, hot, hot!!!...just like the Cure! Get out the propane torch and focus most of the heat on that bolt. The rest of the heat will dissipate to the cases which won't be a problem. You might have to repeat the process a couple times until the bolt comes out in one piece though.
Wait a minute...
He should focus the heat on the aluminum, no?

Baby steps and leverage will get the job done.
TIGHT Vice Grip on a shot bolt head -- and something to add more leverage as needed, like a big wrench on the vice grip.
Aluminum doesn't fuse to steel. It's all corrosion friction.

BTW I went through this a month or so ago. Tried freeze spray I'd ordered by accident, for the hell of it. My garage still wreaks of this shit:
https://www.amazon.com/CRC-05002-Freeze-Off-Super-Penetrant/dp/B000TFTH00/ref=sr_1_2?crid=29YNFSI1A6VDO&keywords=Freeze-Off+Super+Penetrant&qid=1668886626&s=industrial&sprefix=freeze-off+super+penetrant%2Cindustrial%2C196&sr=1-2
Sat, 19 Nov 2022 21:03:00 +0000

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Sat, 19 Nov 2022 21:26:43 +0000

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Sat, 19 Nov 2022 21:26:43 +0000 quote
Ray8 wrote:
Wait a minute...
He should focus the heat on the aluminum, no?

Baby steps and leverage will get the job done.
TIGHT Vice Grip on a shot bolt head -- and something to add more leverage as needed, like a big wrench on the vice grip.
Aluminum doesn't fuse to steel. It's all corrosion friction.


The aluminum is going to get dang hot as well, so i usually just focus the majority of the heat on the steel bolt. If the bolt doesn't come out, then i just kinda play it by ear after that.
Sat, 19 Nov 2022 21:39:36 +0000

bodgemaster
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Sat, 19 Nov 2022 21:39:36 +0000 quote
Quote:
Wait a minute...
He should focus the heat on the aluminum, no?
No. I was advised by a very experienced machinist that the correct technique is to heat the steel bolt, not the aluminum. I've tried it many times and it works.

I'm guessing about the physics but I suspect heating the bolt expands both the bolt and the material the bolt is screwed into but at different rates. Heating the bolt also cooks off any thread locker that might be on there.
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Sun, 20 Nov 2022 01:59:14 +0000

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Sun, 20 Nov 2022 01:59:14 +0000 quote
Thanks for the replies y'all.

Will give it a go in the morning.
Sun, 20 Nov 2022 11:49:45 +0000

Ossessionato
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Sun, 20 Nov 2022 11:49:45 +0000 quote
This is all quite odd. On an SS180 (or GS160), a bolt should not thread into the case arm. It's a long bolt that pushes through the case arm and threads into a square caged nut in the exhaust bracket. That looks like a bodge by a previous owner.

Maybe you know this, and you are a doing a rescue job. I don't know.

The bolt that needs to be there is like this one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/174211982181?hash=item288fd7e365:g:eMEAAOSwNNVeR1po&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAsG5cnRIDkC%2FSVOyWc6LpTkg61yxMsTHEV27zldUQKLH0rRuhs9jPHJyhyYHJyFRLinwGJ0x2YxTptQi8V6zed38tQhtWij3N9m%2BUKN9QdX%2FqsaF6PRgKPZKFxoeswhe6JMy9li5QlW%2FHK9yPJ%2FARpghNAGUCv8vxtDloGL65QlZbwlef4sOWMI%2FZ6b%2B0g%2F8psZNwXswsOdYW1lwB5BMxupzjSQbGsBHIR%2B%2FEMlhddJBV%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR66ohM6SYQ
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Sun, 20 Nov 2022 13:18:55 +0000

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Sun, 20 Nov 2022 13:18:55 +0000 quote
This is a new set of cases I just got… I don't know if it is the correct bolt or the incorrect bolt. I just know the bolt is stuck fast in the swing arm… We'll see what's-what when we get the bastard out!
Sun, 20 Nov 2022 14:12:39 +0000

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Sun, 20 Nov 2022 14:12:39 +0000 quote
Birdsnest wrote:
This is a new set of cases I just got… I don't know if it is the correct bolt or the incorrect bolt. I just know the bolt is stuck fast in the swing arm… We'll see what's-what when we get the bastard out!
Well, all I'm saying is it ain't right the way it is at the moment.

Does your old engine swing arm have the same?
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Sun, 20 Nov 2022 22:55:51 +0000

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Sun, 20 Nov 2022 22:55:51 +0000 quote
Just rust and crust. Had to remove the swing arm mounts to get penetrant in there, and it was a two man job for sure. Mark - usual suspect - with the assist. Thanks man! Onwards.



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Sun, 20 Nov 2022 23:00:51 +0000

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Sun, 20 Nov 2022 23:00:51 +0000 quote
Next order of business…

There is a very particular roller bearing in the SS that requires a very particular tool. (Typical blind bearing pullers WILL NOT work.)

Anybody out there have the factory tool pictured below? Or know someone who does? I'll send ya a monetary deposit to borrow, or the case half and some ducats if you'd be so kind.


Need this rare bird. (The lower pictured blind bearing puller.)

Mon, 21 Nov 2022 00:56:45 +0000

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Mon, 21 Nov 2022 00:56:45 +0000 quote
Ah, I see now that the exhaust bolt is the right one and wasn't threaded in. It was just broken and fused in.

Sorry, but I don't have that puller.
Mon, 21 Nov 2022 01:41:48 +0000

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Mon, 21 Nov 2022 01:41:48 +0000 quote
What's the ID of that bearing? I don't have that puller but may have one that could work.
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Mon, 21 Nov 2022 02:22:52 +0000

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Mon, 21 Nov 2022 02:22:52 +0000 quote
ID looks like it is 21.3 +/- 0.15

It has a weird brass bush that is press fit into the case and sits proud internally, hence the need for the specialty tool. Mark and Jonathan both suggested tack welding a bolt to yank it out, like on a smallie... would prefer the tool or similar if possible. (The standard blind bearing puller can't get purchase bc of the brass.)


21.2 or 21.4ish


Brass in Pocket

Mon, 21 Nov 2022 02:40:11 +0000

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Mon, 21 Nov 2022 02:40:11 +0000 quote
Would the bread method work here?
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Mon, 21 Nov 2022 13:04:31 +0000

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Mon, 21 Nov 2022 13:04:31 +0000 quote
Mark found a version on SIPs website

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/tool-puller-sip-bearing-flywheel-side-input-shaft_21467280

(Fine…. Finnnnne… it's fine.)
*lights 100 dollar bill on fire*
dsnyder586 wrote:
Would the bread method work here?
Burning bread method as in burning cash? ....yes

I don't think the bread method is possible here as tapping on a bolt would probably damage the brass receiver for the input shaft.
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Fri, 09 Dec 2022 03:13:06 +0000

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Fri, 09 Dec 2022 03:13:06 +0000 quote
Tool finally arrived! What a weird little extractor. The bearing wouldn't come out without heating the case… but popped out with the puller after some time in the oven.

If anyone ever needs to borrow… I'm your huckleberry.


No joy… to the oven we go…


Yuss!

⬆️    About 28d elapsed between posts    ⬇️
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Thu, 05 Jan 2023 21:58:53 +0000 quote
Peeks in…



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Posts: 6804
Location: Hustletown, TX
 
OP
Not So Moderator
VNB VSC o9c VMA vbc vmb VSX
Joined: Wed, 28 May 2008 17:31:07 +0000
Posts: 6804
Location: Hustletown, TX
Thu, 05 Jan 2023 22:00:02 +0000 quote
There may have been some vapor blasting completed on my Quebec cases:


Beforezzzz


Afterzzzz

Thu, 05 Jan 2023 22:52:05 +0000

Addicted
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 02:53:03 +0000
Posts: 596
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Addicted
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 02:53:03 +0000
Posts: 596
Location: Tucson, AZ
Thu, 05 Jan 2023 22:52:05 +0000 quote
Birdsnest wrote:
There may have been some vapor blasting completed on my Quebec cases:
Nice!

Vapor blasting is my new Frank's Red Hot for engine rebuilds...put that sh*t on everything. So nice to work with clean parts versus weird hydrocarbons leeching out of the block forever.
Fri, 06 Jan 2023 04:30:38 +0000

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 3459
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 3459
Location: Florence, OR
Fri, 06 Jan 2023 04:30:38 +0000 quote
Birdsnest wrote:
There may have been some vapor blasting completed on my Quebec cases:
Very nice indeed!
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