Modern Vespa

Early stage!
Making an engine stand, inspired by Arzente Motori's FB post.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1291423485005449

Also been doing lots of digging online and in the archives here.

What I'd like to build:
Stand that an engine can drop down in and be easily removable, vs a stand that needs a rod fished through while held just right.
Adjustable, large frame/small frame.
Rotates vertically freely, with maybe two locking positions so far (90 and 180 degrees).
Won't be horizontally rotational.
Won't be a kick start stand


My question for you who already have stands:
What do you like and not like about it?

Been using a big rotational vice that worked well until a few months ago, when a finished engine fell to the floor.


Very rough prototype. Ignore the hardware. Going to be 5/16 bolts/star knobs next iteration.

Shitload of this material here. Byproduct of my day job. A bucket a week that goes to waste.

Hey Ray,

I like of my current stand:
I can start the engine in the stand
I can carry the engine and stand around easily

My dislikes of current stand:
Getting engine in the stand
Doesn't pivot horizontally so I've got to lay the stand on it's side

I love the fact of the rack you're looking at has the ability to just drop the engine into it. I wonder if there would be a way to lock it in with a latch and cotter pin, so it can be carried around AND maybe rotate A la rotisserie chicken? The best of all worlds

Ray, build one, and its flat-pack like the crank truing stand and I will buy one!

The truing stand is awesome!

You could use an 8" length of 3" perforated U-channel to create a cradle for the front engine mount casting. And another shallow u-channel facing forward to cradle the back. Maybe a few really small ratcheting tie down straps to hold everything in place?





Last edited by garncarz on Sun, 13 Nov 2022 14:29:44 +0000; edited 1 time

I'd def be in for one if you can make it kickstartable.
Love the idea of being able to drop it in with some kind of shelf type thing to hold the swing arm and shock mount? Could also drill holes in the sides of that to allow the more classic bolt attachments so it is carryable and flipable

That's the issue with my stand. It's so damn hard to get the engine in. I typically lay the engine on the ground then weasel the stand onto it then tilt it upright and lift it off the ground. Less than ideal with my shitty spine and arms though. If mine could just drop in it'd be almost perfect. Perfect would be being able to fit a modern box exhaust. Fits the original VNA exhaust fine though.

Maybe a low profile base for the stand that you could fit/drop onto a floor jack puck?

Thanks, Scott!

It will lock in via L channels in the swingarm bolt seats.
So drop in both ends with all-threads already fitted, press the two sides together and tighten both with nuts.

What I can't figure out yet is how to make it rationally lockable.
The friction hold between the two star knobs will be pretty solid, just not locked...yet.


Similar to this but in the opposite direction.

Thanks Friday!

Can't think of a way to make it work as a kickstart stand with the single post for rotation

Oh, and I forgot to say, whatever you make, I WANT ONE! COUNT ME IN!

The fit and finish of what you create is amazing!

Really glad to hear, 108!
Had a great time making them. Midlife crisis therapy

That's the plan. Medium Flat-Rate box.
Easily disassembled for storage as well.

That part will be easy.
Going to try to powder-coat this.

Just need to figure a way to lock vertical rotation. Thinking a disc with holes for a pin, but at 90 degrees the swingarm will be in the way.

I'm in the dissenting camp in that I don't really use my engine stand much. it's not that it lacks function, I just, dunno? I guess I like chasing the cases around the workbench, it makes it more exciting?

the one thing that *does* irk me, is that I can't get a P2 barrel on or off with the exhaust stub on.

anyway, count me in for whatever you build! even more so if it can double as a starting stand!

Ah you might have missed the pic on my other thread, I'll attach it here too!

Stand is perfect

Forgot to mention. Priority to fit a smallframe engine. I never wanted to use one for a PX engine, never saw the need for it.

Not too precious about the powder coat, would be a nice bonus though

Hold clutch side case half of a large frame motor during assembly?

Looks good. I built mine so it fits within the confines of a boot tray. So parts and dripping oils can be caught. Installation of the engine is easy. Just bolt up both engine mounts first and rest on the stand supports. Then install u-bolts and tighten them. No wrestling with the engine/stand trying to line up bolts needed!

Hec


Hec's Engine Stand

I'm in same camp as greasy. I bought and use a swivel stand for my workbench. I used it for my first engine build and it was nice, but every other disassembly or rebuild, I just don't bother using it, in favor of just putting a block of wood under the case side to prop it up for best angle to either knock something in or out of it. Just works quicker and doesn't require messing with the stand.

Floor mounted engine test stands I've built my own but it sucks and can't really mount the exhaust normally while allowing for a kick start. The one test stand I bought broke after the first attempt to kick start the engine and I never bothered to buy another one. I just put it back in the frame and test it for real. Saves on the stress of trying to rig up a fuel supply.

I think I like the stand only for the fact that it puts it at a better level for viewing than working straight on the bench. The not futzing about with a block of wood is decent also. But yeah, you can build them without a stand and not have it be much harder. I don't have a stand that allows running or spinning, so I haven't yet decided that that's an advantage.

Some progress.

CAD program for the seats done. Needs a bit of tweeking but really close.

Surprisingly stable, even with those temped-up wing nuts. I suspect with handle nuts it won't even need rotation-locked positions, but I'm thinking a 1/4 disc made of 1/8" plate to provide 4 lock positions anyway (see pic).

Could any of you guys with smallies give me a rough measurement between the mounts, on center?
I've got the largeframes down.

So far a 5cm wide shock mount seat and 21cm for the engine mount.


Everything so far out of my waste buckets.

Lock plan, with handle nuts and retractable pins of some kind.

Handle nut at McMaster-Carr

Like where your going with yours.
For me - I found having it mounted to the front of my work bench - able to both spin and rotate - was ideal.
Cut up my existing and modified.
Found that I liked it far better mounted to front of work table - rather than table top.
Ability to both "spin" and "rotate" (X and Y axis) was ideal.

Couple pics below.
360° rotation in both directions really simplified access and work placement.


Top mounted. Found I never went back to this.

Front mounted - my prefered

Awesome!

But what about those bits that fall off and dance away on the floor?
*says a guy with a filthy floor.

It's a trade off, I suppose, but in practice it's just such an improvement in height, vision, and access that I never went back to bench top.
I have a couple magnetic trays I like to drop my nuts and bolts in as I go.
I like to mount it off center, so that I can work on the bench top to its right.
The entire thing just pivots on a large bolt, so when not in use I take it off.

More progress...

Tested this latest iteration with the weight of a complete engine. Drops-in well. Locks-up really well so far.
Vertical rotation is

Going to do a rebuild on it to see how it goes. For sure there will be found ways to improve this along the way.
So far (powder-coated if I can pull it off) I'm at around 75 bucks a pop, more or less -- run of 6.


Needs beefier hardware.

Pin like the one on the bottom right will be needed. Lever friction won't do it

love it.

I'm in at that price point. PC or not I'm cool with.

Me too please, PC or not....

I'm slow to join the fun, but is the goal a building stand or a running stand? because they're kind've different beasts.

I'll post up some pic's of the frame I built for my smallie. It has a lot of the features you're already thinking about, but it's really for running the motor rather than building it.

I've been thinking about doing something similar for largeframes. The variety of exhaust configurations on those make it a bit more challenging, but well within do-able, especially with the volume of spare angle iron you have access to.

If it's a running stand, I'll take one.

*Ahem* SEVEN

Thanks!
So far, you included, only 4 1/2* takers. It's better for me to do a run of six or so, with jigs being setup and such. I did a run of eight crank truing stands and none made it to the classifieds (I'm also a customer ).

Just to be clear, this is a build stand.
I can't figure a way to make both a rotational build stand and a kick start stand in one package. A kick stand would require two posts, and be much taller.
Also designing this to fit disassembled in a medium flat rate box, and easily stored when not in use.

*Still waiting for smallie dimensions for 108's. Hoping this will be an adjustable build stand for both largeframes and smallframes.

I'd like one.

My workbench is much shorter.

This work stand I'm playing with puts things where I can stare at it face to face on my stool.

Slipping like hell rotationally while wrenching, but I'll sort that out.

BTW thanks to you (and Gascooter) my shop is now clean*!
*That's a lie

I knew I owed someone some information…!

Let me measure the mount points (in the frame should be fine, right?) in the morning when it's dry here.

Looking awesome!

Excited to see it!

Will this stand accept both large and small frame engines? If so, put me down for one. Thanks for all of the R&D.

That's the plan.

REALLY like this!
Waiting for parts that arrive next week to finish this engine. Having a great time with this stand. What a difference not having to fumble with things.
The following week I'll make six stands, + one for myself.

Update:
Been watching more of Antonio Arzente's videos.
He uses two hub bearings to fit his smallies (see pic).

Thinking about making the engine mount side width-adjustable, to avoid having to do this.
Shock mount fixed.

Managed to take a measurement of the smallie.

It's around 35cm engine bolt hole to rear shock hole.

Give or take some because of parallax effect…

That should work. You just need about 3/8" more space to fit a largeframe into a smallie stand and the largeframe is about an inch longer.

Of course, what you *could* do (but this might not be feasible from a build perspective) is just have to sets of forward mount holes, one for smallie and one for largeframe, which would make sense because the swingarm bolts are different sizes anyway. You'd still have to stick a spacer in when working on smallies, but it'd avoid needing to adjust anything at all. Just make it good n' strong. The tricky part is still going to be a stand that'll work as a running stand for largeframes. It needs to have a lot of clearance on the fly side to fit various exhausts.

Thanks, 108.
Just needed a rough idea. I've over-compensated quite a bit.

Thanks, Chandler.

Trying to be able to drop an engine down and lock it for rotation without having to feed a bolt through (back saver system). This is done by the L channel landings when the two ends are pressed together and length is locked.

I'm thinking now a pair of nylon spacers for the smallframes should do it, vs making it width-adjustable(?). Shock seat width is 5cm. Engine mount is currently 21cm.

Wish it could be possible to make a rotational stand that will work as a running stand. I gave up. Goal #2 is also to get this all to fit in a medium flat rate box.

So far the large half hasn't left the stand. With a dedicated space around it, it's completely rotational.


Shock mount pull and replacement.

More pics.
Was hoping to finish today, but the carb intake was effed in its history by an over-zealous dremeler. "Pro" shop in 2011
Zoom in on one of the pics for a laugh.
I'll epoxy-fix(?) it tomorrow.

Love the stand. First time my back hasn't hurt after engine fiddling.


New fixing pin works. Not really necessary with only the large half on. Friction from the handles holds it now.

Fixed brake cotter pin access. Both ends

Holds upside down. Going to CNC the rotational stops. Not possible for this angle without a LOT more work but still friction-holds.

Looks great. Can't wait to get my hands on one!