Modern Vespa

Maybe this issue has become the abused dead-horse…

https://tinyurl.com/yc5hccvk

…but, among other things, look at that ringer-for-a-Vespa in the photo: do I hear throngs of lawyers on horseback?

Ban the sale of refurbished batteries in New York City? So if you paddle across river to Jersey does the ban hold there? How about in Yonkers? I've heard that some of the fires were caused by use of the wrong charger. Are all the fires caused by defective batteries or defective people?

I'm guessing the former

https://carnewschina.com/2022/04/18/chinese-electric-vehicles-are-on-fire/
"Of course, there is a positive correlation between the number of sales and fire accidents. The February 2022 EV sales data shows that BYD sold more EVs than the other brands. Li Auto sold more EVs than XPeng, while Li Auto came in sixth with five fire accidents and XPeng came in seventh with four fire accidents. Zotye barely sells any cars anymore, and it had only two fire accidents. NIO seems impressive with only one fire."

My favorite comment was, "When it's not running, it save a lot of energy"

Looks like something from r/combatfootage
More Early Adopters
There seems to be an issue or two that need to be addressed.

Max will be along shortly to scoff at those who think you need an electric vehicle to start a fire.

Interestingly, a look at all ICE vehicle fires shows the overwhelming vast majority started as electrical wiring or electrical component failures.

You still remember that tragedy! I can laugh about it today however at the time it was really terrifying.

I have a close friend who has two electric bikes. Yesterday we discussed the case of these 🔥 and his opinion is that there are specific safety steps that must be followed while recharging the batteries. He doesn't blame the batteries but the folks who don't follow safety instructions.

This ^^^

Recent news in Australia:

E-scooter blamed for destroying pricey Aston Martin car
https://www.9news.com.au/national/fire-manly-aston-martin-e-scooter-battery-warning-sydney/b7aa73b4-7930-4f35-9cd0-e787e2cbcb81

I'm sure someone who lives on an upper floor of a high rise apartment building full of people charging these things will find that comforting when one of them explodes.

Can anyone think of a single product that occasionally bursts into flames or explodes that gives less consumer information or warnings about that aspect of the product at time of purchase?
My favorite solution was when one of the car companies said not to park your fully charged car in your garage.
What that tells me is that they expect some of their cars will burst into flames, but that they hope parking it outside will mitigate some of the damage.

I've got plenty of gadgets that I'm only supposed to charge while watching them. For four hours. Yeah. I do that.

My only experience with a vehicle fire in the wild was a taxi in Shangri-la China. Petrol powered.

They really need to significantly monetise lithium cell recycling so the vape chargers and cell phone batteries find a way out of peoples junk bins. And old cars are appropriately dealt to.

Something to inspire you all:

The Nissan LEAF has been the largest selling EV in the World until recently so there are a lot of them out there (and one in my garage). There has never been a battery explosion or fire in a LEAF. There was one example where a garage burned down with a LEAF inside. The battery did not burn. All this brings me back to the question posed above - battery design or owner error? If it is batteries causing these fires, I presume it is the result of a poor design (I note these are Chinascoots which are prone to other quality issues), or charging errors including faulty charging devices or procedures. The article leaves you with the impression this is a common issue. Does anyone know of any example anywhere involving a Vespa Elettrica?

Owner error shouldn't be able to cause a fire. Because people are dumb in unexpected ways you need engineering controls to prevent bad things occurring.

There's no such thing as foolproof...

I'm imagining someone unfamiliar with petrol powered cars trying to shove the charging cable into the gas tank.

I'm not an electric vehicle fan and don't own one. These conversations seem to keep devolving to car fires etc. Someone look up how many vehicles burn per 100,000 in gas vs electric. Homes burn down from garage fires started by gas powered vehicles everyday. Last I looked a gas car was 75 times more likely to catch on fire that electric. Wiring issues, fuel injectors leaking and spraying or misting fuel on a hot manifold. Fuel lines cracking with fuel pressure of 100psi and up to 2500 PSI on some direct injected systems. I just did a quick Google search and millions of vehicles have been recalled due to fire issues by Ford, Hyundai and Kia.

https://www.google.com/search?q=car+recall+fires&sxsrf=ALiCzsa08kd9Paq8pYAk6yBcikcHZds78A:1669930903473&source=lnt&tbs=qdr:y&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwic6bOysdn7AhVcg4kEHee4Dro4ChCnBQgR


As for batteries and poorly built ones, I think a company should be required to be ISO certified, bonded and insured to sell a lithium battery. A poorly built battery can easily start a fire and burn down a building.

Do electric bicycle batteries have a charging bag or metal bin to charge then in? I race RC cars and we have charging bags and metal bins so if a bar starts a bag contains it and a metal bin also helps. Maybe better battery charging education and procedures should be put in places for indoor charging?

^^ I'd bet the vast majority of many ICE car fires are not while the car is in use AND/OR home mechanics getting things wrong.

Edit: yeah I forgot about lack of maintenance as pointed out below

Last edited by SteelBytes on Thu, 01 Dec 2022 22:12:24 +0000; edited 3 times

And I'd bet the majority are down to fuel lines being compromised. Which is usually lack of maintenance.

good point about lack of maintenance

In USA it's fuel system leaks, and fuel system leaks caused by accidents. Then electrical fires from what I've read, it's what you would expect.

If ICE cars randomly burst into flames just from the act of refueling, gas stations would look a lot different and would require everyone to leave the car while it was being refueled. The pump jockey would be required to dress like a stuntman from Backdraft.

No-one is suggesting that they do, though. They almost invariably burst into flames while being driven. But rarely when they crash, despite Hollywood insisting they do every time.

Fools buy factory direct eBikes with horrible batteries. No UL or any decent certifications. Charge unattended, charge over worked hot batteries, batteries using low quality BMS, and steel rather than nickel ribbon connectors. Accidents waiting to happen.

I hear you.

Bosch and their ilk, $1000 batteries have fewer disasters. Sadly suckers but entire eBikes for $1000. No way can a safe and sane battery be made for sale under $400-$500. Even then, buyer beware.

I'm curious about the insurance angle. Enough fires and the industry is going to start slapping extra charges on people with battery powered vehicles in their garages.

I hope that doesn't happen.

It's only the Lithium Nickel-Cobalt-Aluminum Oxide (NCA) batteries that are particularly prone to self-immolation. Lithium iron phosphate battery (LFP) batteries are not subject to overheating or self-ignition.

Does Progressive® insure Ebikes?