Modern Vespa

Sorry it's taken me a while to post these. I'll do my best on the captions, but if you want to chime in with changes, I'll update them.


Take off the left side body panel. You may also need to remove any crashguards or racks it they get in the way of removing other parts.



Rear hub cover removed.




The next step is to take off the clutch nut.




Insert the special clutch holding tool over the nut, inserting the pins on the tool into the slots of the cover. You may have to jiggle things a bit to get it all to line up. Do not use a screwdriver to hold the clutch instead of the special tool!!




View showing the clutch nut removed.




Shove the air filter out of the way once the bolts have been removed.




Now you can start to remove the bolts that hold on the cover




As you remove the bolts, pay careful attention to any clips holding brake lines and other lines.




Some bolts may be awkward to get to, especially with crash bars




View with the cover removed





Check the inside of the clutch bell for grooves, irregularities.





Using a special tool to hold the variator cover in place while the nut is removed





Pay attention to the orientation of the washers. It's important when you re-assemble to get it right.




Taking off the outer plate of the variator.




Half the variator removed




Feeling for grooves or irregularities on one side of the variator.




View with the variator, belt and clutch off.




Feeling the roller grooves for any notching or roughness.




Using some green scotchbrite pad to remove any accumulated gunk in the roller grooves.




Feeling the other side of the variator for for roughness or grooves. It should be smooth.




View of the clutch / variator area with everything off




Cleaning the roller grooves with brake cleaner. Pretty much everything should be well cleaned before being put back.





Reassembly is in reverse order, using new belts and rollers. Rollers can develop flat spots, belts will show signs of cracking, delamination and heat damage.

Great shots! I didn't make it to the DIY clinic so these will help when I try this job.

Thank you, excellent guide! This is my next job. I feel a lot more confident now.

How do the clutch and the variator come off? Just pull them off the spindle?

What are the torque numbers for the various nuts?

Is there a gasket under the cover that needs to be replaced when reassembling?

As far as I can remember the clutch and variator just pull off once the nuts have been removed. (note the special tool for the variator)

Hopefully Greasy can weigh in on the torque numbers or maybe they're in the manual?

And there's no gasket that gets replaced on the cover. Again, that's my recollection from the workshop, but hopefully one of the tech gurus will weigh in.

Very nice photos-- including greasy125's excellent sideburns! 8) I was watching, tho' this part of the workshop moved beyond my novice level of expertise, I'll freely admit.... At least I know now what the various parts look like--

--Deborah

We also have a good recording of that session up on the interwebs:

http://naturesruntime.com/mvworkshop/

It is streaming from the top for now. I will add play/pause index points as soon a some time opens up, or when riding season ends ; ))

\osc

Thats the last picture of Val's cowl before it was ridden hard and thrown to the ground.......

Nice.

R

8)

Excellent sequence of photos -- thanks for posting them!

The things I remember from that part of the workshop:

1. The reason you need to use the special tools is because the torque on those nuts is so high. Something like 60 ft. lbs on the variator one (but check the shop manual to be sure of the real value).

2. The direction of the rollers matters. The letters (or the closed end) go to the right, as I recall.

3. Putting the new belt on, he worked it in between the rollers on the clutch, held it in place while inserting the clutch onto the splined shaft, and let it sit there -- the belt will expand to touch the sides, then should stay while you put on the other side (the variator).

4. The cover (the crome guy with the Vespa logo on it) is plastic, and the tabs sometimes break. If you hear a rattling coming from your transmission, check that the cover just isn't loose -- might save yourself some money!

-Dan

How do you define 'to the right' the way they are positioned concentrically? To the right for the bottom one and then on like this, or to the right for the top one?

the variator and 1/2 pulley need to have the retaining nut removed and then they both slide off of the crankshaft. once the 1/2 pulley is removed the clutch will slide off of the drive axle with the belt intact. 59~61 lbs/ft for the 1/2 pulley/crankshaft nut.
39~42 lbs/ft for the clutch shaft nut.
no, there is not. the entire assembly is dry.

best,
-greasy

from the 12 o'clock position, the lip on the roller should face to the right. follow suit from there. realistically, if you're using an aftermarket roller that is identical side to side, it shouldn't matter.

the operation is outlined in the FSM.

best,
-greasy

good job dan, you were paying attention!

1- using the right tools ensures that the job is done correctly-- that the torque is correct for each component. and yes, it is rather high.

2- roller lips to the right, closed end to the left. from the 12 o'clock position.

3- when you put the new belt on, you should work the sheaved halves of the clutch apart and insert the belt instead of working it into place and risk twisting it or possibly damaging it. remember to keep your fingers clear or the clutch WILL bite them. seat the belt as far as you possibly can and then insert the entire assembly onto the drive axle.

3a- when torquing up the front 1/2 pulley be sure that you haven't puinched the belt between the pulley and variator. also be sure that you've reassembled the washers and spacers in the proper sequence.

4- always check the dust cover. they rattle like crazy!

best,
-greasy

I have a lot of respect for all people that can do this sort of thing to a scooter with confidence and without breaking it.

To me it's voodoo!

On a stock roller, which end is lip, which is closed?

There is a metal end on one and a (green) plastic end on the other on mine. Lip? Closed?

I wanted to buy the special tools but Motorsport Scooters were out of stock. Also, the GTS variator tool is way over $100!

They told me if I have an impact wrench, I don't need that tool. Correct?

Tightening it, is it very sensitive to the exact torque, or do I tighten it with the impact wrench as tight as it goes, and that's it?

Thanks for the all the help here. Once I have done it once, I'll feel better about it, I'm sure.

it will be apparent. one end will have more metal showing and a pronounced thin lip on it. the other will be mostly enlosed in the plastic jacket and have very little metal showing. i spoke with max about a week ago and he said that they'd be doing another order for the tools in a short while.

100bux for the tool is not that expensive if you take into consideration the concequences of messing something up. yes, you will be paying MANY MANY times the price of the tool-- and that's just the parts. i generally don't give that type of advice. here's the reasoning behind it: i don't know what type of impact gun you have, i don't know what kind of line pressure you're running, and i don't know what level mechanical expertise or skill sets you posess.

i KNOW what the torque output of MY impact gun is. i KNOW that MY impact gun also has a integral pressure regulator. i KNOW what MY line pressure is. therefore i can pretty reliably torque fasteners with the gun. however, i also work with the same tools ALL the time, and i've done a metric butt-load of installs.

now if i tell you to go ahead and zip it up with your impact how do i know that you're not running a snap-on IM5100 that can produce 375 lb/ft of torque at 90/psi. see where i'm going with this.

at any rate, no matter what tools are in use, i *ALWAYS* double check the fastener with the torque wrench.

the torque number is fairly specific. within a few lbs/ft say 58~62
so, yeah, i'd say it's sensitive.
and, no you don't want to set the impact to kill and hammer on the attachement nut. that's a good way to twist the end off of crank.

my advice: buy the tool and do it right, or farm out the job to a pro.

best,
-greasy

After starting the job without the tools and having to borrow the tools to finish it right, I can say that you have offered good advice.

As soon as Max has them in stock again, I'll buy a set, or make a tool from my damaged variator half.

I'm working on installing a malossi variator and clutch onto my lx50. So far so good. In the shop manual it emphasizes that I should replace the pulley/crankshaft nut each time that I remove it. Should I worry about this? The nut looks fine to me. And if I have to, is there any particular material the new nut should be made of, or just drop by my local store and pick up a similarly sized nut?

By the way, on the lx50, I've gotten away with not having the variator tool. Instead I've been using a strap wrench. Looking at the pictures, I'm not sure the same could be said for other models (LX150, GT, GTS). They definitely look a bit different.

Thanks

As I recall from the workshop the question about replacing the nut came up and the answer was, just reuse it.

i don't type responses just to hear the sound of my fingers tapping on the keys...

trust me, i've done this a few times before.

right tools for the job make all the difference.

best,
-greasy

that is correct. the nut is fine to reuse a few times.
when it becomes obivioulsy damaged-- rounded on the lands or a little funky in the threads, go ahead and replace it.

best,
-greasy

Well, fortunately my one nut still looks great.

Thanks for the help. Sorry for the bad play on words.

Hello everybody! Greetings from Croatia. I am new around here.
I have very big favour to ask from Michael Moore. I ride Beverly 250ie with QUASAR engine, the same as on your Vespa and I am type of guy that does maintenance on his bike by it self, but problem is that i cant find special tool for taking off drive varioator or drive pulley( the front one on the cranckshaft.
I did manufactured tool for taking the variator cover off but this one is more complicated to manufacture because i do not have the dimensions of it.
So, if I could ask You to take some pictures of the tool and take some measurements of it so I can make it on my own back home. I believe that only our service centers have it but they do not want to sell it.
Thanks in advance

i believe that the workshop manual has the dimensions of the tool in the preface portion of the book.

if not, it may have some photos that will at least give you a better idea of how to fashion a tool that will work for the time being.

best,
-greasy

Yes, i have downloaded service manual for BW250 and Vespa 250ie and i know how tool does look like but dimensions of original tool would be better , something like a drawing with dimensions, diameters and so on.
I can find it in any way, or to open the variator and make a measurements on variator pulley, which is tough way to find it out.
I someone has the tool, I would appriciate quick drawing with most important dimensions that are crucial for removing the variator pulley.
Thanks again.

P.S.
Thank You all for putting the manual for download, it is very helpfull and makes servicing my beverly big pleasure.

Sorry lucas, I was just taking photos - the tool isn't mine, so I can't measure it for you.

Actually, doing it that way is the easier way than to go by measurements that you haven't taken. But the tool is complicated and needs to be quite precise to fit into the two holes.

Easier to make your own this way: buy a spare drive variatior half and make a tool from it instead. Here's how:

http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/topic11962.html

Then all you do is stick it over the pulley, in a way that the cooling fins interlock, have the handle stop itself against the oil sump, and unscrew the nut.

Keep in mind, this pulley is for a different engine, so the handle dimensions and all need to be different, tailored for your engine.

I ordered a belt and rollers to tackle this job myself soon, well overdue as I'm pushing 10,000 miles on the originals

I'm having a hard time finding the tools, the 'drive pully stop wrench' and the 'clutch holding tool'.

Anyone know who's got 'em in stock?

I have to make a service now at 6000 km, just to check the belt and rollers, maybe I can make some tool from my old scooter variator. It has fins as this one so maybe it will fit. I don not know. Anyway, if somebody does have chance to make some drawing with measurements, I would appriciate that very much. Or similar hand made tool which will do the job. Not an alen key!!!! there is to much torque on that nut for that kind of holding tool.
Thanks for the advices.

It is easy to make clutch holding tool. Just make a circle made of steel with outher diameter 90mm and inner diameter just to fit wrench inside (some 45mm). drill holes on opposite sides for 9,5mm bolts that are sliding in holes in variator cover behind the plastic cover. And that is it.
You can easy take the measurements from your engine by removing that plastic cover on aft side of variator cover with piaggio sign on it or VESPA. Remove it with screwdriver, it i s easy. It can be found on the internet for sure. You have it in service manual which you can download on this forum so you can see how does it look like.

I found this workaround for completely removing the filter housing:

At least on the GTS, the air filter housing is attached with three bolts, the left of which goes into a loose nut at a quite hard-to-get-at spot. Re-installing that one is a bit tricky, to say the least.

You can get by with removing only the two right bolts and just loosening the left bolt. Now, push the filter housing up toward the (removed) pet carrier, pivoting it along the left bolt.

How does this manifest itself? What are the symptoms?

I have a LT50 (ET2 engine) and I'm getting some funny noise coming from the transmission area. A rattling sound. There is no dust cover as there is on the ET4 so it's not that. I have taken the transmission cover off just to check if there was anything noticably wrong and didn't see anything. Sometimes it sounds like a sparking noise... like when someone touches you and zaps you, but that clicking noise repeated very quickly in rapid succession... the sound is intermittent, meaning not a measured/perfect rhythm, only at certain speeds and more noticable on a cold engine... when i hear the sound I can usually tweak the throttle a little more or a little less and make the sound go away. Performance/acceleration/speed does not seem to be affected. Also, I cannot get the engine to make this noise when I rev it on it's centerstand. So it seems to be related somewhat to load.

Any ideas?
Thanks
chris

Michael Moore sorry but where have You found "special tool" for remove variator?
tks!

This is for the GTS/GTV:

http://www.scooterwest.com/item_detail/Variator-Holder-GTSGTV/1969/

I don't know whether the 125 has the same size variator though.

Yes, I have to check if 125 size variator is the same of 250... in anycase thank You so much!

A little time and aggravation saver is this trick:

For getting the air filter housing out of the way, it suffices to only remove the two right bolts and only loosen the left bolt. That way, the housing can be pushed up, pivoting around the left bolt. A string looped around its right end and tied to something will keep it out of the way.

With this shortcut, you save the aggravation of fiddling the nut to fit the left bolt (and avoid losing it into the engine's abyss).

This is what it looks like, held up by a (white) string:

I have got a 180f Vespa ET2 150 which is been in an accident. I have installed a new ignition and CDI unit. I have got it running. However when I get the engine started it will not go. Thanks to you, I have also looked at some of your technical description and I have been able to open the clutch/variator cover. Thinking that belt might be torn. But it seems fine. what should I do next. Many thanks in advance for any help you can give. me.

Regards...

Try starting a new thread in the General Discussion area of the forum with this question. You'll get more people to notice it that way vs. having it buried at the bottom of a GTS Variator/Belt change thread....

Everybody is reading Salty's

With your research I plan to do my belt this week, what luck so see your post so clearly outlined. Thank you.

Defendo

Here's much cheaper alternative to the OEM Variator holder-

Buzetti Variator Holder
http://www.scooterwest.com/items/?_pageCCS=t#page=/item_details/GTS-GTV-Super-Variator-Holder-Tool-Buzzetti/2037

And here's an option for clutch holder also by Buzetti-
http://www.scooterwest.com/items/?_pageCCS=t#page=/item_details/GTS-GTV-Super-Variator-Holder-Tool-Buzzetti/2037