Modern Vespa

Well said Eric.Good post.
If you were this side of the Atlantic,I'd buy you a beer.



(Apart from the new ones being ugly,that is... )

Eric:

Great post. It illustrates a few points, as well.

I'd LOVE to have a garage of different scoots and motorcycles. I'd love to bring all my tools down from Oregon and set up a garage, and spend nights tinkering on my bikes. Unfortunately, that will have to wait a few years - so I went modern and just really enjoy the rides.

I just think as long as modern and vintage riders respect each other for why they are riding what they do, everything should be fine! Has been for me.

Again, great post from a strictly vintage POV.

Never care what people think of you or anything that you own. You own it because you like it. if you don't like it you ain't going to buy it. And if you don't like it and buy it anyway because of what others are saying then who are you buying it for. Them of you.

I enjoy looking at the Vintage scooters/motorcycles very much. Just like I enjoy looking at classic cars. I know nothing about engines, and really do not intend to learn. I prefer to spend my spare time riding, not fixing.

If I could afford a vintage I would have one. The soul/style/heart does talk to me. It would be nice to have one, but I would have a bunch to learn. Someday I may do it, until then, lets ride, Beale.

Oh it's cool. I get exactly what I don't get. It was the need to constantly fettle that stopped me from owning a Vespa for many, many years. I don't have a mechanical bone in my body and nor does anyone in my family.

Aesthetically, modern Vespas lack the - hmmm - I would call it 'delicateness' - early in the morning here so my mental dictionary is not on yet - of their vintage sisters. They are a completely different beast.

I am now suspecting my GTS will just end up being a gateway drug.

And you're right - this site is areally lovely place full of good people.

The next time you see one of those folks who deride your choice of ride, compliment them on their bike (before they can issue that first derogatory comment) on something that you sincerely like. It'll diffuse the situation before it even gains legs. Make them feel good about their ride and they may just choose not to rip on yours.

What's to lose being nice?

The Roadbum

I get this part, and I always have. I own other vintage things, and I understand that kind of camaraderie. It's almost gallows humor, in a way.

I don't feel that this even begins to explain, however, why certain (and by no means all) members of the vintage crowd feel it necessary to loudly proclaim things like "I'm glad there aren't too many plastic pigs at this ride!", especially when an owner of said "plastic pig" is standing within earshot. I consistently show up and ride at events, and I'd wager that I put more miles on my scooter annually than most vintage folks. It's as if the mere sight of a modern scooter offends them, or somehow threatens their own choice of scooter, which is ridiculous. The idea that one must insult someone else in order to improve one's own self-worth is pretty feeble.

I don't expect to be accepted by the vintage crowd. I've seen plenty of examples of people who might at least be civil and not insult me to my face, but pretty much zero vintage guys will ever go beyond basic civility, or attempt the slightest bit of inclusion, even as I go out of my way to help them by blocking at a rally, or sweeping in a support truck, or stopping by the side of the road to lend a hand or a tool.

I'll continue to go out of my way to help any scooterist, anywhere, even though I know I will almost never get the same in return. I'm not going to take shit about what bike I choose to ride, though. Period.

Chuck Norris style.

Nothing! And after being nice, and stopping to help the lambretta owner that seized on the freeway, and mentioning that I've got tools for his scoot (because I grabbed the toolkit out of my lambretta and put it in my lx for the rally), and having my input as to what has gone wrong dismissed because I'm sitting on an lx... then you can ride off into the night and leave them in the dark on the side of the freeway 7 miles from town and not feel guilty and even enjoy the schadenfreude.

Welcome to my world, Patrick.

The joy I get out of going 70 on the gts alone overrides any sadness about having a vintage Vespa. I'm too mechanically inept to drive something that is any more unrelaible than the newer Vespas.

I certainly agree with Eric about the new ones lacking the style of the vintage bikes (as do cars of a certain vintage as well) but they are alot safer, faster, and more reliable than the previous editions. I had a customer who wanted to sell me a late 50's Rolls which he told me had a retrofitted Chevy 350 engine, the comperable Vespa, retrofitted with a stella engine has some appeal.

Yesterday as an aside, I did have some trepidation when I went past the line of Harley's at the Chrome Horse Saloon behind which is an open patio filled with the drivers of said bikes, and met a friend for lunch. To quote the drunk guy in the doorway "I eat scooters for lunch"

"that scooter goes 80" I said

"bullshit" he says

"let's go out and see..."

"my ride is in the shop"

then we both laugh, "of course it's in the shop...It's a Harley"


Scott

I'm beginning to see a trend where you and I agree most of the time. Your "Balkanization" point is well taken and is, perhaps, the single most important reason we riders of all things 2 wheeled get no respect. Since we apparently cannot speak with one voice, we'll never get any important pro-moto legislation passed. Join the AMA.

Yeah but I don't care I keep riding. Now if someone bought me a replacement then I would have two.

No one else's opinion really matters much. If you like the scooter, then that's all that counts.

If you need a response to such rude commentary, I like the Brits' answer to such things.

"Piss off!"

Couldn't have said it better myself!

C

One more thing:

I am a fat guy and the older vespas are little (too little for me)


.....fat man on a little bike......


Scott

yeah but in 5 or 10 or more years our formerly new vespas will be breaking down all the time and we'll all be in the same boat.

Vintage Vespa: LOVE
+ Modern Vespa: SEX
--------------------------
Happiness!



One without the other has SOME merit but together--ahhh!

Eric, while I appreciate your post and think you have several things right, I think you missed it on one very key point. Just looking at the forum for the last month, with all the rallies starting up in full swing, the ModernVespa (modern scooter) crowd loves the scene, the rallying, and the whole scooter culture, and even the mechanics. A good portion of the posts every day are people discussing maintenance, mods, add-ons, etc. I know you said there is some "crossover", but I take it that you mean the people that own both modern and vintage.

As Vespa/Piaggio scooters are not at all the least expensive modern scooters, people are buying them for a reason. Some love the way they look, some like Italian things, but many know of the Vespa history and that is a big portion of why they wanted a Vespa/Piaggio. Be it just the history, or the fact that this company has been building scooters for so long, or whatever the reason is, in some way it has something to do with the history (even if it is just some subtle styling cues from the past). For me it was more the history of the company as a whole, and of making good scooters for a long time that gave me the extra nudged I needed to get my Fly.

I have heard/read countless times how people on modern scooters get hastled and given a hard time by the vintage crowd. How the "other" forum treats people (I've read posts, or more importantly the replies to posts, from ScooterBBS, I wouldn't want to go near there, and I have a thick skin).

All that said, I think you are probably the most polite "vintage only" person I have come across thus far, and I'm glad you posted what you did. And it is good to have you here.

I wouldn't take it personally--my recently-rebuilt vintage Vespa is just getting the kinks straightened--and my previous ride (Honda C70) often had minor problems. People always offer advice when something's wrong--and they have good intentions. But if the owner knows the bike and its history and the other person doesn't, it is just kind of annoying--Joe Random Scooterist just doesn't know your bike as well as you do. And you're in a sour mood to begin with because your bike is in pieces on the side of the road ... you get the picture.

(And by history, I don't mean the legacy of Enrico Piaggio--I mean that you put a new float in last week and maybe you didn't tighten such-and-such bolt properly.)

I love vintage vespas, I'm not really into any kind of scooters, I've never been crazy about lambrettas either. I just really enjoy the design of a vespa body and the whole italian feeling that comes with it. Off course I'm also into what early sixties englands youth did with it - the fashion and the music and the scooter in a package. I used to dress mod in the eighties and I used to own a 50s and a 50 special back then.

I have to admit I was never into the technical part of it. When something was wrong with my vespas I always had some friends hanging in my garage that basically fixed it for me - I always pretended to pay close attention so I can do it myself next time - but it was just not my thing. Eventually we got all cars and except my vespa mechanic enthusiasts we got kinda out of it.

Now I felt the urge to have a vespa again and didn't even have to think twice to get a GTS 250. I have to admit, if they would have sold the PX125 in California I would have sacrificed the speed and gone for that one. But the GTS was the next best option for me and I fell in love with it. For me it has at least the thick cowells and the wider leg shield. I'm not crazy about the plastic parts and that I can't switch gears manually. I bought a lot of chrome stuff to make it a bit more retro (I tried) looking but it's just not the same. I took it all off again and go for the pure elegant (still) italian design. But I will get myself one or two vintage vespas in the future because they are with no doubt the real thing. But the new ones (especially the larger ones) can be a good compromise.

I know this is a pretty long story but hey, we all like to read and write about scooters, right?

And, by the way - I live in the San Fernando Valley where every two weel person rides a Harley or some japanese rocket and I don't get the street credit that I was used to when I lived back in Austria. Dressing in wiener-joking tailored suits and fishtail parkas that most people here use for working in the field didn't give me more street credit either.

So lately I bought myself a leather jacket, because I'm writing freeways a lot - I tried to get the cleanest, purest looking one that I could find - but still - it says "Motorcycle" - it bothers me a bit but that's another thing that comes with a scooter that's part Motorcycle, part scooter. So when I'm in a store and talking to a girl at the register and she's asking - so you're riding a motorcycle - I say: Yes, a Vespa! - I get the giggles and I can see how she puts me in the corner with people she would consider "girly" or at least "not manly enough" - but guess what - live is a comedy and it's all pretty funny and not serious, it's all so far away from being important, it's rather amusing - even though I wouldn't mind getting the "street credit" that I got back in europe...

anyway, it's all just fun and not serious...

Andreas

My thought is why do you care what other people think about your scooter?

Well, i appreciate you saying that ...and everyone else's nice comments about my post.

You guys are seriously just going to have to deal with getting some ribbing around vintage people, should you choose to run in the same circles or attend the same events. It's just going to happen. I'm one of the people who does the ribbing.

It's never anything personal ... scooter rallies are typically called "scooter rallies" and not "vintage scooter rallies" - though you're going to see a change in this very soon, i think. The vintage scene is tending towards exclusion at this point due to the overwhelming popularity of plastic scooters ...be them vespa badged or otherwise. For any number of reasons, they are becoming way more prominent in the scene, and for anyone who's been around a long time this is discouraging because it's not what they remember seeing. This year's Gotham rally - a rally previously open to any scooter, is vintage-only from this year forward.

I use this example all the time : I'd be like if there was a vintage Mini Cooper scene that was suddenly INNUNDATED by modern mini-coopers. ( which i am also sure is taking place right now ) From the opinions of the vintage guys, could you see how they would sorta scoff at how they have to work hard at maintaining / owning / riding something they are very proud of, while you were able to go to a dealership and get a loan and ride in on one with clean fingernails...the only work you had to do was pull out your credit card. This is a pretty accurate parralel...hopefully you can at least understand the argument even if you don't agree with it.

If there's one point that can be made in this thread by a vintage guy it is this : The reason vintage people might give you shit is that ultimately, what they consider a scooter is something very different than what you ride. Scooter rallies and scooter culture and all that jazz is based around devices that are somewhat rare, largely made fun of, require a decent amount of mechanical knowledge and help to keep running, are largely outmoded by modern traffic and city design, and really are just prone to failure. I can't tell you how many nights i sat disappointed as friends rode around my cul-de-sac while i turned a wrench and grumbled at my piece of shit Rally 200....in the end replacing every part in the engine before i would consider it reliable.

This is what bonds vintage people ...feeling eachother's pain ...the grease under our fingernails and in my case literally up to my elbows right now because i just swapped out an engine in my GS160 20 minutes ago. We get together, we talk about "what's it going to take to get that scooter in the back corner of your garage working" "You need that part? I have that part!" and so forth. It's like an Amish Barnraising. It's HARD!!! It takes a lot of work and energy and education and heartbreak when things fail!!!

This is the vintage thing.


Again - i'm not trying to be divisive, really. As i said, you're all good folks. I'm trying to help you understand the basis behind why a vintage guy is going to give you shit.... why you're going to get comments at a rally. If you don't like it, just do the modern thing ...throw modern vespa rides or whatever. If you want to give me shit when i show up for breaking down on the ride, i'll laugh along with you...

Cheers.

If everyone lived their life with the passion that Eric lives his this would be an even better world.

I don't think anyone is complaining about "ribbing" or "joking". It is all the people that aren't joking and are just jerks.

Also, I believe there are plenty of rallies that are mostly modern scooters, and an even mix. If the vintage crowd wants to become even more secluded and elitist, cool, who cares? The main reason I even commented on this is that I get sick of the type of attitude I see that is displayed here by the vintage crowd toward the vintage vs. modern scooter "thing" that they have created.

And I wanted to point out that even though someone thinks their reasons for liking something are special, they really are the same reasons other people like something so similar yet so different.

Oh, and the "You don't get it because you don't have to work hard on it" thing is a load of bull. Money doesn't grow on trees, time isn't free, everything takes some type of work and some type of sacrifice. I've seen people get ripped a new one on the other forum for asking an innocent question and hoping for help. I would be shocked if that happened here.

I have hobbies, and even a career, that I work hard on and put a lot of effort into. But I won't turn around and say "No no, you aren't really working-hard-at/bonding-in/learning-from/enjoying/etc what you're doing, but if you were doing what I am THEN you would be..." to someone with similar or different hobbies... maybe some careers.

lol... that was one of the most cleverly disguised flame about the superiority of vintage vespas I've ever read

The P-series was the "modern vespa" of the 70s and 80s, with all the trash talk that entails.
That's why I love the new vespa--you guys now draw all the flak and (most) people think my ride is "vintage"!

No Tom we thought that you were Vintage ,

I am really thinking about a new box for my Lambretta. It's just in a couple of big plastic tubs and really it deserves way better~

What really sucks is when you have four vintage scooters and none of them run good enough to take on a Rally.

Yea that happened to me last year.

The GT-60 is the new Mod Scooter....

So now everyone with a 2007 GTS, or LX, has a Vintage Scooter...

Telling us to get used to it is not exactly going to win you friends here. I don't have to, and I won't. Trying to convince me otherwise is just stupid. That's exactly the kind of stupid crap that I would expect from the vintage crowd. They didn't want us around to begin with, and now they're going to enforce it. Whatever. I've heard a very similar speech from e on ScooterBBS. Almost identical, in fact. I'm beginning to believe (actually have believed for a while now) that you were elected as envoy to come over here and make us understand that we should stay the hell away from their rallies. That's fine, I'm not going to pretend that my scooter is a classic. But explain to me why, exactly, it's necessary to insult someone else's bike in the process? Which part of what they believe is a scooter requires them to put down all other scooters? Really, that's what juvenile, unsocialized males do in high school. Because then we'd be no better than them. And that'd be pretty pathetic. We'd also be giving the more obnoxious members of the vintage crowd exactly what they want -- a balkanized scooter community, with vintage rallies and modern rallies and never the twain shall meet. I think that's incredibly myopic of them, and I'm not ready to give in.

As a side note, I own a classic car, and have spent a good deal of time in a specific classic car community, doing meets and events and shows. Unlike the mini cooper, which makes for such a wonderfully biased analogy, the car I owned had a continuous, unbroken lineage from old to new, under the same company, year after year. A lot like Vespa, in fact. Unlike the scooter world, though, we treated the new owners with the same respect we showed everyone else. Really, the classic car analogy only serves to illustrate how petty the scooter community is.

Jess has a good point. Of course, no new Vespa rider could
possibly own both and still be cool enough to help a fellow rider.

I'll tell you one thing though; the best running vintage bikes are the ones ridden damn near daily. They kook out somehow from just sitting. Possessed...

The Roadbum

First off, I'd like to know what all this "plastic scooter" talk is about. Last time I checked Vespas are still made from pressed steel which they have been forever.

Secondly, a scooter is a scooter is a scooter. Want to know what made me feel better the other day? A guy riding a PX waved to me. Something as simple as that made me realize that there should be a mutual respect for scooter riders of all kinds. Period. I don't care if you have a vintage or a new scooter, it's the same damn thing; two wheels, two handlebars, an engine, and a body. You ride it. That's the point. I don't think anyone here can argue that scooters are not fun. There's no point in arguing.

So in conclusion I've come to the realization that everyone who knocks your scooter can fuck off. Do what you like. No one should have to follow rules according to riding scooters, that's stupid and petty. Motorcyclists and scooterists both generally have respect for one another, so scooterists should respect each other too. Otherwise whatever scooter scene you have is dead.

Pardon my choice of words, bro, but you're playing into a big world of stupid if you let other people's opinions sway your personal choices.

So called "members" (that word alone should be a huge indicator) of subcultures often feel the need to build a wall to protect that which they deem as "special". If you agree that somehow or in some way what they're into is "special", or "more special", than by all means, you should fall in line and join the parade.

If you love what you love and dig what you're into because something deep down inside--not outside--tells you "I like this" whatever it is, than do yourself a favor and go enjoy that thing. Don't handicap that fun with someone else's baggage.

Trying to gain other's acceptance at the cost of your personal choices is a fantastic example of pushing a gigantic ball of sh!t uphill with a very sharp stick.

Trust me. I've had to wipe the sh!t off me on several occasions myself before I finally learned.

I :: heart :: plastics.

Err.. that's just plain dumb. The "only work you had to do was pull out your credit card." Hmm. The only work one had to do - was pull out a credit card! Yes, sooo accurate. You've nailed it. Well thought out. Brilliant conclusion.

lambretta: glutton for punishment.

best,
-greasy

I guess I am lucky to live in a city where the vintage gang have decided the group they will exclude does not include me. I've got the right badge - and the right model (Mention X9 and watch WW3 erupt.)

That doesn't mean they are all going to love and embrace me, and a few people had made assumptions about my politics etc...but after a few beers they realised their assumptions were wrong. I would like to see our PM die a slow and painful death, too. So that's alright , then.

The thing with any group or club is that they/we tend to identify ourselves by what we are not. And all hang out together and hang sh!t on that which is 'other.'

I have accepted my own limitations - mechanically, and for now, as a rider - and that's why an MV was right for me. But as my knowledge increases and my scootering network expands, who knows? (I think I already do know.)

Like I said earlier in this thread, I get what I don't get. I also have the patience of a two year old with ADD. I am being kind to myself and everyone else by taking the easy option, believe me!!!

vintage vs. new
ford vs. chevy
yankees vs. red sox

yeah... you get the picture. no sense wasting time and enegry on somebody that's got blinders on.

i own nine bikes, one is modern.
i own four cars, one is modern.

i don't give a crap who you are, what you do for a living, what you're wearing, who your mommy and daddy are, how much money you make or what you're riding.

good riders are good riders
bad riders can be groomed into good riders
assholes are assholes and there ain't nuthin' that can fix that.

best,
-greasy

Greasy, I think I love you.

And as we have ascertained, it's not man love.

X