Modern Vespa

Just so. It comes on every 10,000km, so you must have done your belt at just the right time.

nice write up, thanks!

did the belt change last night, everything went easy-breezy!

Today I started my belt change on my 500 per Jon's oh so helpful instructions. Everything went well, except that a washer was missing. Inside of the driven pulley nut there are supposed to be two washers, a large and a small. My bike only had the large washer. Jon's how-to guide mentions that it is "extremely important you put these back". Well, I only had one. Now what? Put it back with just one, or go get that smaller washer somewhere?

Also, what techniques do you recommend for tightening the driven pulley nut to spec, keeping the wheel from turning? I saw Kevin's technique with a 21mm deep offset wrench, which I do not have. Do I need to go buy one of those wrenches, or is there another clever technique?

Same way you took it off - I use the rear brake as mentioned.
That's disturbing about the washer missing - the outside washer is crucial as it rides on the bearing.

yes it is very important.

Pilot go to the dealer and pick one up before reinstalling everything.

Now you guys are seriously scaring me. So I have been riding for the last 2500 miles without this crucial part and never a problem? And the previous owner too, possibly since the bike was new? What do you imagine are the implications of riding without that washer?

No on to getting the washer from the dealer... so I look in the parts catalogue, diagram 01.09 on page 38, I see not two but THREE parts between the nut and the clutch drum: 2 washers and a spacer. Worse yet, in the diagram the large washer sits closer to the clutch drum and the smaller washer goes next to the nut, while in all our disassembly instructions it's the other way around.

The one washer I have measures 30.9mm OD, 14.3 mm ID, 1.5mm thick. So this is clearly item # 18 in the diagram, the larger washer. I need # 17, with is part # 840319. Gotta call the dealer.

But now two questions remain:

1) what goes on the outside: the small washer per the diagram, or the large washer per the reality? In other words, which Italian dude screwed up: the guy that drew the diagram or the guy that assembled at the factory?
2) what about the 3mm spacer, item # 19 on the diagram, part # 825763. Has anybody seen it on their bikes?

look at this thread it show excellent pics and which order and placement of the washers

J COSTA INSTALL - MP3 400 - with pictures

And yes whoever did the diagram screwed up there is one spacer (unless you have a fuzzy washer then two) that goes between the variator sheaves and two a (a thick one and a thinner bigger one) on the outside under the nut. The thicker one goes on the outside of the thinner one opposite of what you see in this pic.



Not sure what damage could have been caused without one of the two outside washers. Hopefully none.

Folks, lets be very clear about which end we're talking about - the driving pulley (variator) or as I suspect the driven pulley (clutch end). There seems to be a bit of muddling up...

Oh oops. yep muddled. Sorry.

Driven pulley (clutch end)

This washer is for my NJ scooter. Called all NJ Piaggio dealers, no one has it in stock, takes a week to get it. So I called Motoretta (my Atlanta dealer). They have three in stock. THREE. I love those guys. They're sending me one. No wonder I have to do my own work on my NJ scooter (no competent dealers around) but the Atlanta bike goes to Motoretta for work. They really know what they're doing and they always get the scooter back to me quickly, no delay waiting for parts. Go Motoretta!

yes those guys are great.

What a great thread but im a bit confused.

Been thinking to boost accerelation on my old 250 MP3 and if i read right i have to double up the original washer but when i look on blueprints i dont see which washer i should double.

http://www.easyparts.nl/showdrawing/2093/79651/79/0-968-1-m420-m2091-m4062-m2093-s18074-d79651/Driving_pulley.html

On your pictures you have two washers between part 1 and 6 but on blueprint there isnt any to start with, im really confused and dont want to mess up.

Which Dr. Pulley are best for a 250 MP3? seen people use all between 10 to 13g.

11 grams. Double up on stock washer which is located between the variator halves.

Thanks!

I just stumbled upon correct blueprint, this one made a lot more sense.

Corrected MP3 400 and 500 driving pulley diagram w part numb

Why 11g, standar is 11.2g so how much difference will 0.2g do?

(edit) Can probably forget the Dr. Pulley, seems like no one sells 21x17 in Sweden and try getting them elsewhere it be 40-50$ just for postage.

Maksor in Holland sells Dr pulleys , he is a member on the forum. Send him a pm.

I was just stating the stock weight since you didn't seem to know.
Go lighter for better performance.

Ok thank you, gona buy 10g.

Just one final question, why do you remove the clutch as you did it must be a reson to it.

(edit) I see now, new belt.

No - you don't have to remove it. I like to look at mine to see if there are any issues, rough up the metal for a better grip, rough up pads same reason - THEN I squeeze the pulley apart with my hands and drop the belt in all the way to the bottom. But - you can spread the pulley while on the bike.

This is a great post for the people who are a bit tentative on doing this job.

I am in the middle of it and have been struggling with removal of 21mm nut. I have the emergency brake on and am squeezing the life out of the back brake. But the nut doesn't break loose. It just spins and the back tire does turn a bit as I am cranking on nh breaker bar.

Any suggestions to get me over this hump?
Cant wait to get my fuzzy washer and new slider weights in place![/quote]

Check this corrected diagram for the 400 and 500. It shows the correct positions of all of the washers and it is the same for the 250. On the diagram the washer (spacer) that gets doubled up on the 250 is part number nine. Corrected MP3 400 and 500 driving pulley diagram w part numb

Also for greater acceleration I went with the 12 gram (as many others did) Dr. Pulleys with great result.

Here is the image from the wiki:

[/quote]have you a 21mm deep offset box end wrench? if so just hold the 10mm with a breaker bar and then you should be able to break loose the nut with the wrench.

Or go get an electric or air impact.

Sounds like a plan. I couldn't find a deep offset wrench. But I will try to use the wrench I found.
I'm keeping fingers crossed that it works.

Impact wrench - go get one and save yourself a lot of aggravation. Cheaper than the special offset wrench too.

Impact wrench - go get one and save yourself a lot of aggravation. Cheaper than the special offset wrench too.

still need the deep offset wrench for torquing the nut back on though.

About to order my Dr. Pulley from http://www.drpulley.info/shop/index.php but, yes always a but..if ve done my reading lighter rollers you gain acceleration and heavier topspeed? I would rather have better acceleration then speed so should i go with 10g? but the extra stock washer (ordered 0,8EUR) going to do something also i assume so why 12g for better acceleration?

Very grateful for all help i got here but really need to know if i should order 10 or 12g.

I don't have a MP3 250 variator locking tool so i was wondering if a good impact wrench will do the trick, i really don't want to break anything. I guess it will work fine losing the nut but back on?

Not usually - the rear brake is perfectly capable of holding the rear wheel so you can use a standard socket and torque wrench. The reasons a nut may be hard to break loose are many but that doesn't usually affect tightening it back down. Also - if you're talking about those offset wrenches that attach to a breaker bar, ratchet or torque wrench they usually have a correction factor that must be applied to get the correct torque. Just sayin in case someone has one...

I never tried 10g on my 250 but I had great success with the 12g. A couple years ago at one of the gatherings Fuzzy noted that my 250 with 12g Dr. Pulleys and extra spacer did better on hills than his previously unmodified 250.

You will need a locking tool to torque the variator nut. Do not use an impact wrench for tightening this nut.

just a standard 70 deg deep offset box end wrench. this holds the nut while you reverse torque the 10mm shaft. per procedure in the service manual

My Fuoco is a 2007 model which I've had from new, but I've only done about 4000km.s, due to being out of the country for almost 5 years, and I'm about to do a full transmission service. I've ordered all the bits and pieces including Dr. Pulley sliders (thanks Maksor) and a fuzzy washer (thanks BJ), but I have a question.

In the third pic of the initial tutorial post it suggests using "a 1/2 inch breaker bar and a 21 mm socket..." but in the pic BJ appears to be using a torque wrench.

I have a TengTools 18 inch torque wrench, model # 1292AG-EP with a max capacity of 210Nm (155 ft/lbs), so, assuming I can exert enough force is it OK to use that or should I just get a long bar?

All opinions greatly appreciated.

This helped me HUGE! Finally got it all apart and started putting everything back together. I do have one question.... the belt is quite loose. It rubs against the bottom tranny case, even after I tightened the front 1/2 of the variatior with the Buzzer to. Is this normal? Will it tighten itself once the engine starts?

I would hate to put everything completely back together only to have something not right in there.

Thanks.

Can't wait to go for rip to test the fuzzy washer and Dr Pulley sliders.

Try putting a wrench on the front nut and turn the engine over several times by hand - if things don't settle in then something is wrong - pics can help.

I will try it tomorrow. If it doesn't work, I'll post some pics. Thanks, BubbaJon.

if you seated the belt deep into the clutch there should be plenty of slack in the belt and it might touch the bottom of the case. the biggest thing is to ensure the belt in the vari is loose enough so when you tighten the vari nut that the belt doesn't cause the vari to not fully be seated and tight. always double check that the belt is loose and free when tightening the vari .

the belt will reseat normally after all is together and first started.

Yes I seated the belt deeply into the clutch. This would explain the slack in the belt.
And yes, the belt is definitely loose and free from the 2 halves of the variator.

So can I assume after I put the covers back on and fire up Lucrezia, the belt will seat itself properly??

That would be awesome.

yes

I would assume nothing - a few turns with a wrench and then you *know*.

Well, I put it all back together. I started her up and it seems fine. But I'm not satisfied. I'm gonna take the whole thing apart agAin and look inside to see how that belt is.
I did smell some rubber after I turned off the engine. I'm wondering if that belt is slipping or if that's normal with a new belt. I doubt it's normal.