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@crazyinnyc avatar
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UTC quote
Not once, but twice...

http://youtu.be/JtdN5L0x5B4
⚠️ Last edited by crazyinnyc on UTC; edited 1 time
@midnight_rider avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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UTC quote
Were the keys in the bikes, or how did they want to get away??

Man I hate thieving scum!
@mikeyl avatar
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Molto Verboso
2010 Vespa Volcanic Black GTS 300 Super "Marta"
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@mikeyl avatar
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UTC quote
Midnight Rider wrote:
Were the keys in the bikes, or how did they want to get away??
That's what I was thinking. I didn't see a truck. Maybe it was down the street and held back because they were busted.

I wish somebody would have been armed. Killing a robber swinging a hammer at you is definitely self defense.
@midnight_rider avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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UTC quote
Its in the UK, not many people are armed...
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UTC quote
Shouldn't be too hard to track the scum down. I saw at least two plates. Assuming of course those weren't stolen too.
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
stickyfrog wrote:
Assuming of course those weren't stolen too.
I think that would be quite a safe assumption.
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UTC quote
the technique they use is tworiders on one scooter then when they have the stolen bike they simply just sit on it while the second rider pushes the bike with his feet it has happened way to many times recently no keys needed .the police even tried the same method and got up to 45 mph first time out. this is just one attack that this gang has done in the last few months ,people have even been dragged from there bikes at traffic lights
the sooner they get caught the better
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UTC quote
quaddiekev wrote:
the technique they use is tworiders on one scooter then when they have the stolen bike they simply just sit on it while the second rider pushes the bike with his feet it has happened way to many times recently no keys needed .the police even tried the same method and got up to 45 mph first time out. this is just one attack that this gang has done in the last few months ,people have even been dragged from there bikes at traffic lights
the sooner they get caught the better
You're saying the scooter rider operates the scooter while pushing the bike in front of him with his feet, which is now being ridden by what was his passenger?
@genie avatar
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UTC quote
that's right. it's called 'ped pushing'.
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UTC quote
Ped pushing

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

Found here http://www.inter-bike.co.uk/features-motorcycling/motorcycle-feature-articles/9900-make-it-harder-for-the-thieves-lock-it-when-you-leave-it.html
Quote:
"The latest trend of stealing bikes and scooters is nicknamed 'ped-pushing'.

"Thieves will go into London on a scooter because the front-facing congestion charge cameras cannot pick up the number plate on the rear of the bike and set alarm bells ringing. The thieves will then circle around an area looking for an easy target.

"The pillion passenger will then get on the stolen bike and steer it away. This stolen bike is then pushed along by the rider of the rear scooter resting his foot on the back foot peg of the bike being stolen.

"To other passing motorists and pedestrians, it just looks like two bikes riding close together.

"It's very probable that this stolen bike will then be stripped for parts to build up on a legitimate frame which can then be passed back into the market, often through an unsuspecting dealer."
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UTC quote
Huh. Now I wish I had gotten a ped push home instead of walking and pushing my scooter 3 miles in 95 deg weather.
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UTC quote
Wow, I am thoroughly amazed at these brazen and brash attacks! WOW! Is this an organised group or various groups using the same tactics? Has anyone from these groups been caught?
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Gobshite Shiva
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UTC quote
it's various groups, usually kids, usually not particularly well organised, but very brazen and opportunistic. as you saw in the video, if they encounter any kind of resistance they typically run off in a hurry. there's a video out there somewhere of a grandmother bringing one down during a jewellery shop robbery by clobbering him with her handbag. sometimes they're caught, sometimes they get away. i don't think anyone makes a terribly long career out of this sort of activity, as it's rather risky - but there is an endless supply of little toerags willing to try.

scooters are a popular vehicle for various kinds of smash 'n grab raids. typically the targets are expensive shops - the thieves show up on scooters, smash the front window with a sledgehammer, load up whatever they can into bags, and flee. they almost always turn up during business hours as most shops in London are protected by steel shutters when they're closed.
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UTC quote
I saw a GTS 300 being used to ped-push a Yamaha R6 (with alarm going off!!) earlier this year.
You can ped-push someone on a bicycle too, but make sure they're up for it first!
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UTC quote
WOW, real scooter punks!
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UTC quote
If the bike shops would keep a couple of ice picks in an area near the front of the shop, someone could grab one quickly during one of these attempts and puncture the tires of the scooter riders. That would slow them down quite a bit so the cops could catch them during their getaway.
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UTC quote
XLR8 wrote:
If the bike shops would keep a couple of ice picks in an area near the front of the shop, someone could grab one quickly during one of these attempts and puncture the tires of the scooter riders. That would slow them down quite a bit so the cops could catch them during their getaway.
Or maybe a few cricket bats!
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UTC quote
stickyfrog wrote:
Ped pushing
LOL... It's not a damn moped!
bike at the front is being pushed along by the moped rider (Picture Copyright of Datatag ID Ltd)
bike at the front is being pushed along by the moped rider (Picture Copyright of Datatag ID Ltd)
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UTC quote
Midnight Rider wrote:
Killing a robber swinging a hammer at you is definitely self defense.
It might get you off the murder charge, but you'll still get done for unlawful use of a weapon, since any item used with the intent of harming another is considered an illegal weapon in the UK. No self-defence exemption for that.
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
ianp wrote:
Midnight Rider wrote:
Killing a robber swinging a hammer at you is definitely self defense.
It might get you off the murder charge, but you'll still get done for unlawful use of a weapon, since any item used with the intent of harming another is considered an illegal weapon in the UK. No self-defence exemption for that.
So let me get this straight. If you have a set of keys, a handbag or briefcase in your hand while a thug is trying to smash you with a hammer and you manage to hit him with one of those items, you are charged with a crime?
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UTC quote
I love how the staff member pushed the scooter guy over twice! Yes!!!
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UTC quote
MikeyL wrote:
ianp wrote:
Midnight Rider wrote:
Killing a robber swinging a hammer at you is definitely self defense.
It might get you off the murder charge, but you'll still get done for unlawful use of a weapon, since any item used with the intent of harming another is considered an illegal weapon in the UK. No self-defence exemption for that.
So let me get this straight. If you have a set of keys, a handbag or briefcase in your hand while a thug is trying to smash you with a hammer and you manage to hit him with one of those items, you are charged with a crime?
Technically, you could be. Though there is a certain amount of prosecutorial discretion, so it rarely happens. But if the attack had already happened and the guy was in the process of leaving, that's where it gets murky.
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UTC quote
That made me a little angrier than I would have imagined it would.
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UTC quote
someone(guy in white shirt) should have grabbed some keys!
now THAT would have been sweet!~..maybe someone else would have got their stolen property back!
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UTC quote
I never knew London was like Detroit, as to crime.
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UTC quote
Wow, that was really literally daylight robbery!
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UTC quote
My GTS was bought from there! InMoto at Croyden!
Graham
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UTC quote
hate my town
if them chavs do get caught they will be sent off with a 'dont do it again' ..... they get fuck all done to em now ....

i was told the one that stole my scoot n sold it on was a known thief but as his crimes are so small they can do nothing ...
n when i told the police the address of the lad that broke my back door open n tried to get in they did nowt ... i phoned 3 times n they said as he didnt get in they cant charge him

as long as this happens that will too still happen ..... i preferred it when cops could slap kids
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@ianp avatar
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UTC quote
Doug21 wrote:
I never knew London was like Detroit, as to crime.
Yeah, this could easily turn into a verboten political discussion on the topic of European migration, but suffice it to say that the current levels of youth unemployment are so high and social services cuts have deepened to the point where many youths have nothing to do all day but drink and commit crimes to fund it.

And because the laws were written when people had jobs and were generally law-abiding, the ability of someone to protect oneself and one's property is very limited. This is because it seems (from an outsider's point of view) that there is this assumption in the law that the police are everywhere and criminals are not. But, the tables have turned to where budget cuts have reduced the police and simultaneously increased the number of criminals.

So, in many ways London is becoming a lot like Detroit (or at least the Detroit of the 80s... I hear it's cleaning up now), with unemployment and underinvestment creating a criminal underclass, with the added disadvantage that Londoners are not allowed to protect themselves in the conventional sense the way that Americans are. (And that doesn't just mean guns.)
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UTC quote
Anybody know why the embedded video doesn't work here when viewed on an ipad, but does work on other sites?
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UTC quote
Fucking Stupid.

I'm not defending any bike vs 6 guys. The bikes are insured. My life is more important. I'm sure any shop owner will concur.

It's too easy for a gun or other weapon to get involved, Then the owner has a seriously hurt or dead employee to handle instead of a simple stolen bike. There were enough cameras there for the police to look at. I'm not fighting anyone unless my life is in eminent danger, there are too many crazies out there who play for keeps.

When someone swings a hammer at me however its go time and the coroner can pick up the pieces of the guy who attacked me from the street. Hopefully there will be enough of him left over to make a positive identification.
⚠️ Last edited by VEZPA on UTC; edited 1 time
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UTC quote
ianp wrote:
Midnight Rider wrote:
Killing a robber swinging a hammer at you is definitely self defense.
It might get you off the murder charge, but you'll still get done for unlawful use of a weapon, since any item used with the intent of harming another is considered an illegal weapon in the UK. No self-defence exemption for that.
Speaking as a former police officer, nope, that's not correct.

It's an offense to have an article in a public place without reasonable excuse or lawful authority that is made, adapted or intended for causing injury.

Basically you can't carry weapons in a public place without a good reason, *but* if you are being attacked you are entitled to use reasonable force to defend yourself and that most definitely allows you to use items as a weapon.

There are still limits - the force you use to defend yourself must be proportional to the perceived threat so you couldn't use a handy kitchen knife to stab someone who has just slapped you. If they are swinging a hammer at you in an attempt to kill you then pretty much anything you do at this point is fair game.

In the video that started this thread, once the robbers start trying to hit staff like that then the staff are have the right to use items as weapons to defend themselves.
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UTC quote
ianp wrote:
Doug21 wrote:
I never knew London was like Detroit, as to crime.
So, in many ways London is becoming a lot like Detroit (or at least the Detroit of the 80s... I hear it's cleaning up now), with unemployment and underinvestment creating a criminal underclass, with the added disadvantage that Londoners are not allowed to protect themselves in the conventional sense the way that Americans are. (And that doesn't just mean guns.)
Detroit may have a lot of crime, but I've yet to see anything like this there. And in Detroit a CITIZEN has the right to meet Force with Force to stop this shit from happening.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
⚠️ Last edited by VEZPA on UTC; edited 1 time
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UTC quote
stickyfrog wrote:
Ped pushing

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Ah, the footpeg. That makes sense now, thanks.
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UTC quote
VEZPA wrote:
Detroit may have a lot of crime, but I've yet to see anything like this there. And in Detroit a CITIZEN has the right to meet Force with Force to stop this shit from happening.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
What about that well known documentary about detroit?

The one with this guy?

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
@ashbrook avatar
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UTC quote
Sorry has this turned to a Detroit vs London 'who has the most crime competition'?
Vezpa
You are of course welcome to your opinion and must act in any way to think is necessary for your own protection and conscience.
I don't feel you or anyone else has the right to put down the brave individuals that did what they did to make sure the would be robbers were unsuccessful.
I wish that in their position I would do the same as they did. I know you wouldn't but thats your prerogative
@ianp avatar
UTC

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UTC quote
Thanks for clearing that up, Zoidberg. It's nice to be corrected in a good way for once!

Anyway, yeah I think we all agree that there's a lot of crime and it sucks. Consider the thread locked.
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