Modern Vespa

(Updates in red. Also, check for additional information and tips in the entire thread)

Life could be so easy: ride 10,000 miles, remove rear wheel to change tire, ride another 10,000 miles.

I guess Vespa doesn't want it to be so easy. Some only get 3-4K miles out of a rear tire. Mine started showing bald spots after about 4200, and from there I took it easier and got another 1000 out of it before I started getting worried. Today was the day (actually, last night was the night) where I finally got around to get that wheel off.

Did I mention Vespa didn't want it to be so easy? Instead of just removing the wheel, we have to remove the exhaust first, and then a plate, before we can get to the wheel. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

The tools I used:


L>R
Needlenose and flat pliers to deal with the cotter pin
3/8" ratchet & 17mm socket, 6mm hex wrench
6mm hex wrench
1/4" ratchet and 6mm hex bit
garden variety screw driver
side cutter
torx bit
(various removed bolts and parts)
a flash light
thick leather gloves

In the foreground:
1/2" x 25" breaker bar with short 24mm socket
extension pipe to extend hex wrench

The beginning (or the end):

Use a proper size torx bit to remove these three bolts, but, for now, leave the top right one (two red rings) in. It nicely balances the entire exhaust, even with the header undone.

Once the two bolts are removed and the top right is loose but still in, loosen the two bronze nuts at the exhaust header. This will eventually release the entire exhaust assembly and avoid issues with the exhaust gasket which the older GTS models have. I hear the newer GTS has a one-piece exhaust, so there is no other way.

To loosen these two bronze nuts, you will need a swivel or wobble extension for your 1/4" (preferred) or 3/8" ratchet, with a 10mm socket. You will need to lie under the scooter and fiddle until you got it in and working. A flash light will help. The good news is, removing these nuts is easier than later fitting them again. We'll get there in a bit.

Opening the battery cover will allow you to see both nuts and how you position the 10mm socket. Works both for removal and installation!

When you have loosened the two nuts, you will need to prepare for the oxygen probe to come off as well. To do that, continue from top. You'll have to cut the wire tie that holds the probe wire in its upper knee. Follow the wire continuing back down, and you'll see it ending in a flat plug. That plug is held in place by a rubber sleeve over a flat metal finger. Push it up from underneath the scooter with a screwdriver. Continuing from the top, undo the safety and separate the plug.

I'm not removing that cable anymore. Just cut that zip tie and then swivel the complete exhaust around that cable, by 180 degrees counter-clockwise, to park it under the scooter, out of the way.

Now you can go ahead and fully remove the two bronze nuts. Then, supporting the exhaust below the remaining torx bolt, remove that bolt, and the exhaust will come free. The protruding O2 probe and the header flange will sort of get stuck in the guts, so keep twisting and moving the exhaust to free it all without breaking off the sensor and then put the exhaust aside. It will look like this:


Notice that the oval retainer is loose and will slip down a bit from the pipe's end.

Going back to the plate, you will now remove the center nut over the axle:

First step is to remove the cotter pin. Straighten both of its legs and pull it out. I used needle nose pliers to grab it and then hit the pliers with a hammer to pull it out, after I had straightened it. Toss the old pin. Use a new one for reassembly.
Remove the safety cap. Now you have access to the 24mm center nut. I was forewarned that this nut would be the biggest challenge. So I went ahead and borrowed that 25" breaker bar, and with that, removing the nut was actually the easiest part of the whole procedure.
(In the white rectangle you can see the wobble extension with 10mm socket)

Okay. Remove the 24mm nut and the distance ring underneath.



Now you can take the next hurdle: removing the plate.

Go ahead and remove the 17mm nut over the shock absorber and pull the shock out from the bolt. Don't worry, you won't damage anything, just pull it out far enough so it comes free from the bolt. Move it over to the right of the bolt and leave it hanging there.

Remove the two 6mm hex bolts. My top one was a bit corroded inside, so it took some extra effort to get it loose. I needed that pipe extension over the hex wrench to extend my lever.

Once these bolts are removed, you need to pull off the plate. Be informed that it sits very tight over the axle. It worked for me to rotate the plate left and right while pulling, to slowly get it off the axle. Remember this when you later install it again, it will require a perfect alignment and the same kind of rocking/pushing to fit on.

Okay, now we finally get to what we really want: the wheel (this shows the new tire mounted already).
(notice the freely hanging shock in the white rectangle)

Remove the five 6mm hex bolts and take the wheel off.

Mark the rim with arrows ...

...for the installer to know how to mount the tire. In the case of a Zippy, also make sure they understand it is the rear tire. Motor bike service shops are usually not familiar with scooter wheels or GTS rims in particular, so let's give them some help to expedite their work and help to get it right the first time.

Back to the scooter: you now deserve a beer, while you stare at your scooter's naked rear end. I love naked rear ends...


Take the wheel and the new tire to a tire shop to swap tires and balance the wheel.
Once you're back from the tire shop, you simply get all the empty beer bottles out of the way and reverse the process. It took me 20 minutes (and this was the first time I did this) to install the wheel and the plate, and another 40 minutes (!) to install the exhaust...and I didn't have one single beer either. The 24mm spindle nut needs to be tightened with a torque wrench to 85-90 lbs/ft.

Here is what I learned about reinstalling the exhaust: a second person will be of help. I did it by myself, and here is how:

maneuver the header and probe end into the guts, aiming to seat the pipe into its hole in the cylinder head, while aligning the muffler's top right flange with its thread, and insert the torx bolt to hold the exhaust. It was extremely difficult for me to get that bolt in, due to my position under the scooter. For that step alone, a second person would be a trememdous help (for me, anyway).

I now use a 7 3/4" long 2x4 that I wedge under the exhaust at just the right spot (see picture). That positions the heavy exhaust just right to insert the bolt (in white eye) and align the header pipe on its two bolts.
Positioning the exhaust this way before you tighten the header pipe nuts has been proven to prevent tension and subsequent cracks in the exhaust--at least for me and for over 25,000 miles.



Next biatch is to get the bronze nuts back on. Without prior experience, I tried it in reverse order, and that doesn't work well. Here is how it will work the easiest: start with the left nut (left in direction of travel!). This nut is easier to install, you can do it directly with the ratchet extension. Don't tighten it yet, just go far enough to keep the oval retainer flat against the cylinder head.
The other nut is best threaded on with just the socket but without extension, and a 1/4" socket works better because it is slimmer. I almost got cramps in my hand, getting it done, and it took a long time until I finally had it, after so many trials-and-errors. Your mileage may vary, if you have a 1/4" wobble extension--I only had a 3/8" one, which is too thick to work for rethreading the nut. Again, peeping through the open battery cover will help tremendously in positioning the nuts.

Once the nuts are on, it is easy again. Tighten them equally but not too tight. Bronze is soft, and you can easily strip the thread.

Now plug the O2 sensor wire back together and take a class with Houdini to get the rubber sleeve back over its finger. Maybe you have someone with small, boneless hands nearby who could help you out with this, it may save you time and pain. I didn't bother securing it with a new wire tie--it doesn't appear to be necessary.

Hey, we're done! Check the tire pressure (mine was delivered with 18 psi!) and go for a ride after your BAC is back to normal.

Talking about tire pressure--I inflated to 32.5 before I went for a ride. It was a long ride. Like 80 miles. When I was back, and after everything had cooled down, the pressure was at 29. It may have been warmer when I first checked, it may have a slow leak. I need to check again.

I forgot to tell how I blocked the rear wheel for taking off the center nut.

When the scooter is on the center stand, someone needs to apply the rear brake. I didn't have that luxury, but I had a sidestand! I changed over to the sidestand and put a length of 2x4 stud behind the wheel to block it from rolling backward. That's all.

Very nice write up, and great pictures. Thanks for doing this, I may yet tackle this project nyself, Beale.

Nice Lansinoh boxes!

Yes I was wondering if those boxes were necessary in this tire change.

Thanks for the excellent and well detailed explanation of the rear tire change. Something I hope I don't have to do too soon because it looks like a heck of a lot of work.

Hahaha, that's a typo on those boxes. It was supposed to read: FOR MOVING SINGLES

I failed if I made this task look more difficult than it is. I already know that there is a very steep learning curve, and after doing it once, I'm almost at the apex. Had I had a 1/4" wobble extension (is now on order) instead of a 3/8", and had I known how to thread those bronze nuts, it would have been a walk in the park.

I'm almost sad that the new tire is holding air and there is no leak. Now I have to wait for another 5K+ miles before I can remove it again

My next project is doing the 6K tranny service...

Great walk-through. My GTS is going into the shop in a couple weeks to replace the Sava's with Pirelli's. I'm down to 10% on the rear after 5600km.

Talking to the tech at the shop, his sop is to remove the rear muffler at the clamp and not at the header. I worry about that clamp and packing failing, so maybe if he takes a look at the pics he'll reconsider.

I wouldn't worry. I'm sure that tech has done a few in the past and knows what he's doing. With the right skills (and material), removing at the clamp is probably the much easier and faster way. This novice just didn't want to learn it by trial and error.

(psst, the pictures can't even begin to show how hidden and tucked-away those two bronze nuts are...it takes an endoscope to shoot them)

LOOK HOW CLEAN IT ALL IS "it never rains in Southern California"
You'd be scraping the crap off before doing that in Northern Europe.

Nice write up BTW

I used one zip-tie around the brake and had no problems. Was able to keep GTS on center stand.

Nice write up and pics!

i use a velcro strap round the rear brake lever and grip......

ive got major chain marks/scratches all over my rims im always chaining her to things

Great write up. I will likely print this out and do it myself when the time comes. Then again I would check the cost of the tire replacment first.

Excellent Pics & Narration. Thanks.

This would be the perfect opportunity to also paint the bracket, since it is off the scoot...

Hey, wait a minute. Is your your garage carpeted!?

Aloha, Will

You mean, you park your Vespa on something else?

carpet is great for working under a Vespa if you don't have a jack, and it's not leaking, so, why not? Besides, it was in there when I bought the house...

wow, this is most excellent. i have stock savas and the rear is in need of replacement (3500miles). i will get have to order some tires and pick up an extra case of beer.

any ideas what the torque settting is on the bronze botls?
(errr bolts)

thanks
joe

No idea, and I couldn't find it in the service manual either.

I tightened them as tight (or loose) as they were when I removed them.

edited to remove the breaker bar comment. I was actually thinking of the spindle nut when I wrote that.

Thank you heaps for the excellent post. It encouraged me to do the same on my GT, which was really urgent for me since i had almost 10 000 km / 6200 miles on my rear tire. Once I got my rear tire out, I removed the rear tire from my girlfriends Kymco Super 9, which was needing a new tire too. The process was almost the same with that too. So now I have two one wheeled scooters in the backyard and two wheels in the trunk of my car. By the way, Vespa GT and Kymco Super 9 LC have the same sized rear wheels, 130/70 - 12".

I'm wondering what tire would be optimal choice, since I'm gonna take them to get the tires changed first thing tomorrow morning. Michelin, Pirelli, Dunlop, Bridgestone...?

Nice write up however I was told there are some holes in this application that could end up damaging the scoot or the rider.

Torque has to be correct on rear nut, torque wrench required. Bike will start struggling and making noise when it gets hot if torque isn't spot on.

Where did the cotter pin go? It requires a new one, especially if you are guessing on the torque of the nut !! Too many beers?

Wheel doesn't need arrows, it only goes one way. The arrows that have to be followed are on the tire, one direction indicates rear tire and the other indicates front.

This is needing to be updated before an amatuer does this at home.

Just passing on what a reliable source told me for everyone's safety.

by bronze bolts do you mean the bronze nuts that are used to attach the header pipe flange to the cyl.?

if so, it's 13 lb/ft

or, about as tight as you can get it with a 1/4" rachet on a wobble head without stripping out the nut.

best,
-greasy

Any safety concerns are always appreciated. Obviously there are two schools of thought: one, to do it by the book, the other, to tighten it by feel an size of the nut. The book version is, no doubt, safer.

That said, I could not find a torque for the spindle nut. Anybody?

For the cotter pin...since I didn't have any beer, I was sober enough to inspect it and decide it would do its job reliably one second time. However, I do not recommend that practice.

The arrows on the rim were for the MC tire service shop. How else were they supposed to know how the wheel is mounted?

Even with the arrows, they still called me to ask whether it was a rear or a front wheel, to go by the correct arrow on the tire (which I had marked red, BTW). Good job of them!

Again, thanks for the correct version, and once I have the torque for the spindle nut (and the wheel bolts too, please), I'll borrow a torque wrench, buy a new cotter pin, and redo that part.

rear axle/spindle nut. 85~90 lbs/ft

and ALWAYS use a new cotterpin, whether you've been drinking or not...

best,
-greasy

Thanks for the nice write up. I removed both my wheels yesterday and took them in to the local motorbike repair shop (nearest Vespa dealer is 40 miles away) and had them reshod with Michelin Pilot Sports. They feel great.

Also without a partner, I managed to break loose the rear spindle nut by placing the ratchet arm facing backward on the nut, then standing up on the right side of the bike and, while holding the rear brake, kicking down on the ratchet (sort of like a kick starter).

I didn't have too much trouble with the O2 wiring harness or the muffler nuts, and it was very helpful to have your instructions. I did put replace the zip tie at the upper "knee" to keep the wiring away from the coolant hoses.

I also pulled the front wheel at the same time. To lift the front wheel, I put a little stick of 1X2 up into the little recess under the center of the body. Then whacked it upright with a mallet to just lift the front wheel off the ground a 1/2 inch or so. The bit of cloth is protecting the paint. It's more stable than it looks -- nice 3-point platform.

Did anyone confirm the torque on the wheel bolts



Thanks.

the bolt that hold the rim to the hub?

best,
-greasy

the bolt that hold the rim to the hub?

or the large axle nut?

best,
-greasy

Hi Greasy, it's the 5 bolts that hold the rims.

The large rear axle/spindle nut. 85~90 lbs/ft -as posted.

Thanks for your reponse.

Greasy reply to Mike Lynch-

TOMORROW: HELP! Removing a GT200's rear wheel!
Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:54 pm

"installation is exactly the reverse. torque the cap screws to about 18~20 lb/ft or just german torque spec-- "guten-tite". the axle nut gets 85~90lb/ft or until your shoulder clicks while you're sweating and grunting."

Q: Are the cap screws the ones used to atttach the rims?

A: yes, sir they are. allen head cap screws, allen head bolts.

btw, i install everything dry with the exception of the shock mounting stud nut and the two cap screws for the front of the swing arm. i like to use blue loctite on those pieces. but, it's your call.

holler if you have anymore questions.

best,
-greasy

Thanks much for the reply!

Everything is torqued to spec. & I'm road ready-steady-go.

Enjoy your weekend.

Hey thanks for such a great write up.

I went over to Sly's house and helped him change out his rear tire....

This write up was Very Helpfull...

Lucky~

I heard a clap like noise on my way home last night, like I ran over a piece of plastic or something. Later, when I went to get the bike to go to the store, the rear tire was flat. Having just read this a week ago, I figured I'd try it too.

After enjoying a new tool moment; I got a 15 inch breaker bar, 24mm socket, hex and torx sockets, I set about the task. Everything came out smooth, except... my axle must be bent...I can't get that bracket to come off for anything! Wiggle it, jiggle it, whatever, braket won't slide off. I even undid the 5 lugnutz off the wheel, that didn't work either It seems to be frozen. there isn't a retaining clip or anything on the axle, is there? The wheel spins, the axle rotates a little after removing the 24mm nut. I'm about ready to whack it with a 2X4. I'd pry it off but I think that might bend the axle. Any suggestions?

PM Greasy.

The bracket sits very tight on the spindle. There is no wiggle room. It needs to be perfectly perpendicular, or it wedges. Does it rotate a bit? Are your sure all the bolts are off?


I remember someone saying to use a mallet but I wouldn't know how and where. Maybe right onto the spindle?

I would try to pull off the bracket by applying force and doing my best to keep it perpendicular, in line.

Getting it back on works similar.

Good luck.

Sorry, couldn't help this one:

A flat-tired rider from Oregon
Could get his rear wheel neither off nor on.
He'd undone all the bolts
but no jerks and no jolts
would help to get back on the Autobahn.

Thanks for representing for Oregon.....

A GTS rider from Oregon
Could get his rear wheel neither off nor on
He'd undone all the bolts
but no jerks and no jolts
would help to get back on the Autobahn-again.

Wow this guy could teach Haynes manuals a thing or two, I had the pleasure of doing all this for first time recently and although I had the Haynes manual by my side reading this first would have helped immensly.

I had no choice but to remove the wheel as I had a puncture but it is worth noting that after deciding to replace the tyre rather than having it repaired all the places I rang for a quote said there was no price difference in them replacing the tyre with the wheel already off or them taking the wheel off and refitting it. This was motorcycle dealers by the way in the UK, I did try some general tyre depots but none of them did scooter tyres. So unless you enjoy doing mechanics on your bike you may be just as well to ride it in to your dealers and let them do it. Of course I had no choice because I had a pucture but at least I know how to do it now but I still would not fancy attempting it at the roadside. It was however a excellent opportunity to clean all the crud off the plate before refitting.

One last thing that may amuse the MV masses, whilst attempting to undo the axle nut using the foot on the socket set wrench whilst holding the back brake in method already mentioned I managed to bend my crap socket wrench. Funny thing is I thought as my foot was going down and I was looking the other way that it was the nut coming undone!

Excellent work, thank-you. Pictures and descriptions are right on. At least now I know I can do it myself if I want, and if I don't, I won't bitch about the price of labor to get it done at the shop.

Flattie follow up...

The help from Modern Vespa forums? Enlightening!

First time rear wheel removal? Slightly Exasperating!

Eventual success the same evening? Satisfying!

Cost of new Zippy 1 and mounting at local scooter shop? $79- ouch!

Cost of same tires at local MC shop, including free mounting, if rims are brought in? $48 each!

Where I'm gonna go next time? No Brainer!

A belated thanks for the help received on this topic. It is nice to know you can do it yourself!

At 3000 miles in just a couple months, my original rear Sava took a piece of glass and is now worthless. (Some of you would say the Sava was worthless anyway). Looking at these wheel removal instructions is intimidating but I can't afford to take it to the dealer much less the hauling to get it there.

Is there any reason I shouldn't take the exhaust off at this bolt in the picture? Then I wouldn't need to worry about that O2 sensor which Moped spoke of and I wouldn't need to get so far up in there. Is this the troublesome gasket that was spoken of? What's the issue with the gasket? Moped said that the new GTS exhausts are one piece but mine is an 07 and it looks like this is in two pieces at this bolt and grabber deal.

thanks so much. the GTS is my "car" and I need it back to get to work.

The lambda probe is not really a big deal, as I learned in subsequent exhaust removals: leave it as is, once that first zip tie is removed.

When the (whole) exhaust is off, pivot it by the probe and rotate it to the side of the scooter, so it is out of the way and still connected by the probe. No need to unplug the probe.

I'm not even sure if the new exhausts are one piece. That's what was reported (and I repeated it unconfirmed).

I'm staying out of the exhaust whole-vs-half-removal discussion as I have no experience with the impact on that gasket (other than installing the brass sleeve instead).

Since my OP above, I have removed the wheel three more times and the exhaust four more times. I think I can do it in the dark now.

At some point I will replace the gasket with the sleeve which I plan to 'make' myself for all of a buck or two. Up to now, I've taken the exhaust apart 3 times and have had no problems with the stock gasket. I just give it a little wipe of grease to ease it back together which I think prevents snags which is what I think causes the reported failures.