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@jess avatar
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UTC quote
Somewhat surprising item in today's news: a San Francisco firm is going to attempt a Zipcar-type service, using electric scooters.

I predict doom.

http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/S-F-startup-offers-scooter-rentals-3895387.php
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
I hope it survives and prospers. I'd like to see this in every large city. NOT paid for by the taxpayers though.
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UTC quote
I was at North Island for Speedweek last weekend. There was a company there (vendor area) called "Car-to-go". It's a car share program, business model similar to this.

The problem with the car share (and would be scooter share), is the car they had on display (one of their "Cars to go" cars, all of them Smart cars) was already pretty banged up. Folks do not treat rentals very nice, especially when you just leave it somewhere.

He must have been a smooth talker to have someone sell him liability insurance. You cannot throw a rock in S.F. without hitting a lawyer.

Wonder who will do all the maintenance. When we were in Montreal last year, they have a cool bike share program, where you use the bike, then leave it at another site (special bike racks). Anyway, I was reading about the program, and I could not believe the cost of maintaining these bicycles. And these were just bicycles. The program does NOT make money, but seems to be very popular because a lot of folks were riding them and some of the racks were almost empty.
⚠️ Last edited by Lothar on UTC; edited 1 time
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UTC quote
MikeyL wrote:
NOT paid for by the taxpayers though.
Huh? I don't get anything like that out of the article.

I did see this however -
"It was really easy, and I say that as someone who'd never ridden a scooter before in his life," said Brown, 39."

Putting a bunch of inexperienced people on scooters in SF traffic sounds to me like it will lead to some unhappy results.
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UTC quote
Dooglas wrote:
MikeyL wrote:
NOT paid for by the taxpayers though.
Huh? I don't get anything like that out of the article.

I did see this however -
"It was really easy, and I say that as someone who'd never ridden a scooter before in his life," said Brown, 39."

Putting a bunch of inexperienced people on scooters in SF traffic sounds to me like it will lead to some unhappy results.
QFT.

Not a fun place to be, under a car.
OP
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UTC quote
Lothar wrote:
The problem with the car share (and would be scooter share), is the car they had on display (one of their "Cars to go" cars, all of them Smart cars) was already pretty banged up. Folks do not treat rentals very nice, especially when you just leave it somewhere.

He must have been a smooth talker to have someone sell him liability insurance. You cannot throw a rock in S.F. without hitting a lawyer.
Car-share services are already very well established in SF. They're quite popular, and doing fairly well. I know a lot of people who are members and use them regularly. So nothing particularly unusual or difficult in that regard.

Putting newbies on scooters, though? Yikes.
@paige avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Will end in tears.
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UTC

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@silver_streak avatar
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UTC quote
Municipal bicycle sharing is doing quite well in Washington, DC.

I suspect riding a low-speed electric scooter on congested city streets is roughly equivalent -- danger-wise -- to riding a bicycle.
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UTC quote
jess wrote:
Lothar wrote:
The problem with the car share (and would be scooter share), is the car they had on display (one of their "Cars to go" cars, all of them Smart cars) was already pretty banged up. Folks do not treat rentals very nice, especially when you just leave it somewhere.

He must have been a smooth talker to have someone sell him liability insurance. You cannot throw a rock in S.F. without hitting a lawyer.
Car-share services are already very well established in SF. They're quite popular, and doing fairly well. I know a lot of people who are members and use them regularly. So nothing particularly unusual or difficult in that regard.

Putting newbies on scooters, though? Yikes.
Even when I rent cars, I check them out. I'm always expecting surprises when I open the trunk. Many years ago I rented a Hertz car from S.D. airport and in the trunk was a BODY BAG! It was empty, but it was still a body bag. Hertz gave me another car and called the police. Plus I hate sticky steering wheels, yuk.
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UTC quote
jess wrote:
Putting newbies on scooters, though? Yikes.
Unless they are essentially electric bicycles, I agree.

This just re-inforces the false perception that scooters are harmless toys.
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UTC

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UTC quote
Silver Streak wrote:
...I suspect riding a low-speed electric scooter on congested city streets is roughly equivalent -- danger-wise -- to riding a bicycle.
Not from what I am reading ... according to Scootnetworks website top speed is 30 mph and it weighs 250 pounds.
@jaded avatar
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UTC quote
I am terrified.
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UTC

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UTC quote
What could possibly go wrong?
@fade avatar
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Hooked
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UTC quote
Ugh. The worst part about the newbies is going to be what SF residents start thinking about scooterists.
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UTC quote
I think my nephew and his SO used these when they were in SF a couple of weeks ago. They were very impressed according to my sister's account.
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UTC quote
There was a man on this forum around two and a half to three years ago who opened a scooter rental business in SF. He said that there were more than a few accidents and he closed the business in less than a year.
@theoz avatar
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UTC quote
XLR8 wrote:
There was a man on this forum around two and a half to three years ago who opened a scooter rental business in SF. He said that there were more than a few accidents and he closed the business in less than a year.
You might be thinking of Jeremiah. Yeah, he had a lot of customers who biffed it and tried to weasel out of it. Kinda sucked.

The sticker for his business is still on my MP3
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UTC quote
And will there be multiple charging stations for all these electric scooters? Not a concern for bicycle rentals that can place racks wherever.
OP
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UTC quote
ryder wrote:
And will there be multiple charging stations for all these electric scooters? Not a concern for bicycle rentals that can place racks wherever.
The City is only 7x7 miles, and nobody in San Francisco ever actually leaves the city boundaries if they can possibly help it.

Kind of like that Lorax movie.
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UTC quote
Well, ok....as long as they stay off those steep hills, that would take a charge out of a battery
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UTC quote
ryder wrote:
Well, ok....as long as they stay off those steep hills, that would take a charge out of a battery
I would think just the opposite, using regenerative charging: you drag the bike to the top of the hill, and then recharge on the way dowwwnnnnnnn.....
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UTC quote
I wonder what the licensing requirements will be for the riders.
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UTC quote
Richard H. Lemmon wrote:
I wonder what the licensing requirements will be for the riders.
Because they're electric and slow, I'll bet they're just skirting the whole licensing issue. I'll bet they don't even have license plates.

I see electric scooters riding in the bike lanes around here on a regular basis. I think the police mostly don't care.
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UTC quote
jaded wrote:
I am terrified.
But then your a sissy girl...

just say'n.

Razz emoticon

R

heheheheheheheeh
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UTC quote
glasseye wrote:
jaded wrote:
I am terrified.
But then your a sissy girl...

just say'n.

Razz emoticon

R

heheheheheheheeh
Really?
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UTC quote
glasseye wrote:
jaded wrote:
I am terrified.
But then your a sissy girl...

just say'n.

Razz emoticon

R

heheheheheheheeh
Oh no you di'nt!

Have you actually ever met me? Cause I'm thinking you don't know me at all, Rich.
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UTC quote
Big_Boys_Mother wrote:
Silver Streak wrote:
...I suspect riding a low-speed electric scooter on congested city streets is roughly equivalent -- danger-wise -- to riding a bicycle.
Not from what I am reading ... according to Scootnetworks website top speed is 30 mph and it weighs 250 pounds.
Not sure I get your point... any bicyclist worth his salt can top 30 mph in spurts or downhill.
OP
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UTC quote
Silver Streak wrote:
Not sure I get your point... any bicyclist worth his salt can top 30 mph in spurts or downhill.
A bicyclist worth his salt probably has enough experience to slow down around corners.
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UTC quote
jess wrote:
Silver Streak wrote:
Not sure I get your point... any bicyclist worth his salt can top 30 mph in spurts or downhill.
A bicyclist worth his salt probably has enough experience to slow down around corners.
Let's just hope this does not attract the same clientele as the 'Blazing Saddle' bike rental company. No one in SF is safe from them!
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UTC quote
Really now....how many bicyclist are really "worth their salt" that they can do 30mph in spurts? Not very many I suspect. Of course anyone should be able to do 30mph going downhill in SF. But on a flat surface....now way.
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UTC quote
ryder wrote:
Really now....how many bicyclist are really "worth their salt" that they can do 30mph in spurts?
Please... any top Cat 4 and upwards can do that, and on a flat surface. Just go to a local road race and count how many people will do it.
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UTC quote
Yeah, but the electric scooter riders won't be wearing the "bike uniform". What's with that anyway? Use to be: get on the Motobecane, clip your pant leg, and go. Ride up Page Mill to Skyline, then downhill to Alice's Restaurant. Now you need to be dressed properly to ride a bike... black spandex shorts and Voler shirt with all the Logos and advertising you can fit on it. Please... spare me...
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UTC quote
I'd be curious to see the company's liability policy. It's hard to imagine how an insurance company can insure a pool of mostly unlicensed scooterists (about whom they know nothing) in a city like San Francisco.
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UTC quote
I didn't see any mention of the brand of electric scooter they are using. Actually, the business plan would be a fun read. Angel investors put up $775,000? That might last, what, a month? ToppiSF has a great point about the insurance. What about the maintenance? I agree with Jess, and will call it an epic fail. And I'm not trying to be negative, because I was once a small business owner. Maybe I'm missing something.
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UTC quote
I'm curious to see if the batteries have enough power to get the scooters to the top of the hills before the batteries go dead.
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UTC quote
This could be sponsored by a local body shop who is using it to gain more business. Lots of newbies could be a problem. I imagine these getting used to do DMV tests too.
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UTC quote
Really now....how many bicyclist are really "worth their salt" that they can do 30mph in spurts?
Please... any top Cat 4 and upwards can do that, and on a flat surface. Just go to a local road race and count how many people will do it.


I thought this was about commuters, not local road racers.
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UTC quote
ryder wrote:
Really now....how many bicyclist are really "worth their salt" that they can do 30mph in spurts?
Please... any top Cat 4 and upwards can do that, and on a flat surface. Just go to a local road race and count how many people will do it.


I thought this was about commuters, not local road racers.
I was answering to your disbelief about executing those speeds, as Silver Streak had mentioned. You asked how many, and I'm giving you a reference point. Those on the races, also commute. I don't race, am over 50, can do those speeds, and do commute on my bicycle when not on my GTS. BTW, bike messengers will do those speeds any day, any time.

Now, I would find it dangerous to have these electric scooters riding on the bicycle lanes, as it could create a collision with a bicyclist, and we know who
would lose in that case.
@big_boys_mother avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
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@big_boys_mother avatar
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UTC quote
kedierluc wrote:
ryder wrote:
Really now....how many bicyclist are really "worth their salt" that they can do 30mph in spurts?
Please... any top Cat 4 and upwards can do that, and on a flat surface. Just go to a local road race and count how many people will do it.


I thought this was about commuters, not local road racers.
I was answering to your disbelief about executing those speeds, as Silver Streak had mentioned. You asked how many, and I'm giving you a reference point. Those on the races, also commute. I don't race, am over 50, can do those speeds, and do commute on my bicycle when not on my GTS. BTW, bike messengers will do those speeds any day, any time.

Now, I would find it dangerous to have these electric scooters riding on the bicycle lanes, as it could create a collision with a bicyclist, and we know who
would lose in that case.
Many thoughts/concerns already listed in previous posts on this thread will be answered if the time is taken to visit the electric scoot website and read it thoroughly.

I don't recall reading anywhere that these 250 pound (113 kg) electric scoots will be "on" the bicycle lanes in SF, as concern is expressed. Bike commuters nor bike messengers use 250 pound bikes, as far as I know. Grant it, the speed has been discussed ... a lot ... but ... let me ask, how many bikes on the bicycle lanes in SF weigh in at 250 pounds?
@ryder avatar
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UTC quote
I was answering to your disbelief about executing those speeds, as Silver Streak had mentioned. You asked how many, and I'm giving you a reference point. Those on the races, also commute. I don't race, am over 50, can do those speeds, and do commute on my bicycle when not on my GTS. BTW, bike messengers will do those speeds any day, any time.

Now, I would find it dangerous to have these electric scooters riding on the bicycle lanes, as it could create a collision with a bicyclist, and we know who
would lose in that case.



I still contend that the average bicyclist/commuter is not going to be hitting 30mph unless most of them happen to be racers or messengers. Or in the case of SF, going downhill.
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