Modern Vespa

I need a picture of the plug going here. Since I do not know the position of the cables. Please photo of various points of view. To be able to differentiate well the position. thank you very Much.

Vespa at4 150

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum and love this post and the detailed information you have all posted.
I have an 09 Fly 125 and like everyone else I want more grunt out of it. Other than this forum there seems to be limited mod info available for the Leader engine.

I was looking at my first major mod to be the Malossi 190 cylinder kit. I had considered the Piaggio 200 kit but a scooter web site stated:
"We hate this kit and don't recommend it to anyone. In our experience, this kit lowers the compression so much that the bike performs almost as well as a stock 150. The other 200 kit out there, from a well known Italian performance parts manufacturer, appears to be this same kit in the seller's own blue box. Nobody who has bought this kit likes it. It might be an improvement if you live in a country where gasoline is 75 octane, otherwise, it's horrible. Do yourself a favor and get the Malossi kit. It does make a big difference.
PIaggio OEM 200 Cylinder Kit. PI844113 844113"

I see several people here recommending the Piaggio kit. Who has had success with the Piaggio kit? Anyone know if it is as good as the Malossi?

Get the Malossi. That's the better kit.

After 10 years the project is still running good.
I am not happy with the quality of the malossi kit,i suppose that i have to change piston rings as the leak down test said to me.

Dynagrego still here?

Yes,i replied to your message.

any other reports on this ? also : you have a pm.

I have a problem with the rubber intake between carburetor and cylinder head. It is made of soft rubber and cracks under vibrations because there is no support from the other side of the carb. As i said before, i use a filter pod and not the factory filter box that has a hard intake support tube.
I tried to modify an after market intake for the Yamaha Majesty 125, but there is not much space in the bucket under the seat, so i have to decide if I modify the Yamaha's intake or the bucket under the seat.

Coyld the problem be the added stress put on the rubber intake due to the pod.installation The factory intake also supports the carb. Does the pod have something that allows it to be solid mounted. If it is , could you add a rubber gasket to the mount to reduce vibration?

It's difficult to add a support bracket to the pod and there isn't an easy place near it to fasten the support bracket.I have to make a more solid intake to support the weight of the carburetor and the pod.
In the meantime i always win at the race of the traffic light.

can you add something right under the carb bowl to make it more sturdy?
yes i now it's more than one year old topic

I solved the problem by adding 4 gaskets between the rubber intake and the cylinder head.
Now, the PE28 carburetor stays high, and it doesn't touch the cylinder as it vibrates up and down.

This is Great info....
Wish I would have read this before buying the Mallossi 187 B bore kit (for a 02 ET4 150cc). That totally makes sense and is a much better idea... Not to mention you gain the additional real estate..

Did the Liberty 200 have an 4 valve head? I thought I had read somewhere there had been a Leader-based Air cooled motor with a 4 valve head, but never heard anything more about it. Getting the engine to breathe better has always been the weak point. I know you can get a camshaft to address that, but haven't taken that step yet.

My Fly 150 with the 190 kit and Polini upgear will hit 70+mph.

No, 2 valve head...

I thought reviews on the 200cc cylinder were disappointing, likely due to the lower compression ratio compared to the Malossi.

Some years after,Malossi C.D.I. failed. It burned its pins and died into a cloud of bad smelling smoke. I don't know why. Old CDI now works fine.
I had to buy a used electrical harness to take its CDI socket.
Malossi's pins and socket pins were welded together from the high temperature, and i had to break the malossi's plastic part around the pins to take them apart.

That's a bummer, thanks for the update

Project report: 35.000km have passed using Malossi 190cc big bore kit.
Cylinder and piston are okay,like new.
But piston ring gap was 0,50mm(normal 0.15-0.30mm,service limit max 0.40).
So i bought a new malossi piston ring set from ebay and now the gap is 0.25mm.

Hello dynagrego,

I really enjoyed reading your detailed tuning journey. I'm planning to use your experience with carbs and switch my old original Walbro WVF to Keihin PE28 or similar alternatives. Could you share how you managed your throttle cable and choke situation? What I mean is original carb has side throttle, while PE28 has a top mounted throttle cable with 90-120° angle. Did you changed full throttle cable? Or you found a way to use original cable with PE28? And what do you reckon, should I go with 26mm sized for stock 125cc Leader?

Thank you.

For a stock 125 i think that a Keihin PE24 is enough for instant response.
I changed the throttle cable with a bulk one for 2 stroke vespas.
A same cable is used for my PE28 remote choke. I pull its end from the handlebar.

I wonder if this would work on the fuel injected 2v LX

GOOD MORNING

A warm welcome to all Vespa LX enthusiasts. I'm completely new here, and this is my first post. I've read all your posts with great care and am deeply impressed by your extensive engineering knowledge. Some of my words may not be entirely accurate, but unfortunately, I don't speak English on a daily basis and have to use a translator, for which I apologize in advance. I'd like to share my humble observations with you and ask a few questions, if possible.
I have a 2006 Vespa LX. It was initially purchased as a 125cc model with a Leader engine. After some time, I installed a 150cc Vespa ET 4 engine, plus a Malossi Multivar, and of course, a Malossi drive belt. It also has a Polini 17/44 primary gear, and the original 16/41 secondary gear is from the LX. I rode it a bit, but noticed that there was too much play between the 16th and 41st gear shafts from the wheel axle. The teeth weren't engaging precisely across their entire surfaces, only touching at three-quarters, so I was worried about damaging the shaft of the 16th gear. The bearings in the gear housing are fine. Does anyone else have a similar setup? And does this phenomenon occur?
Then I went a little further, but down a slightly different path. I bought a complete engine from a 2006 Piaggio Liberty 200 Sport and put it in my Vespa LX. It was almost plug and play, except for the rear gearbox, which was rebuilt because the Piaggio Liberty rides on a 14-inch rear wheel, while the Vespa LX has a 10-inch wheel. The gearbox housing, of course, is from the Vespa LX. Currently, the rear primary gear is a Polnini 17/44 and the secondary gear is a Malossi 16/42. Everything fits perfectly in this setup!
Malossi 2000 Multivar drivetrain, 14-gram rollers, original belt, original clutch and bellhousing. Original Keihin CVK 2600A carburetor, idle jet changed from size 35 to 38, main jet size 82.5. Malossi air filter in original housing from LX-a, however, the engine breather is completely disconnected from the filter housing, and an oil separator from the quad is installed on the valve cover. The Secondary Air Box System is, of course, disconnected from the cylinder (the plug is at the cylinder), while the SAS valve is connected to the carburetor manifold. The carburetor manifold has two vacuum outlets: one outlet for the vacuum fuel rail, the other for the SAS valve. I've noticed that when I additionally draw fresh air, without exhaust gases, directly into the carburetor port through the SAS valve, the engine accelerates slightly better, as if it were running an "additional turbine" with a CVK 2600A carburetor installed (this is, of course, just my impression). Malossi 5512341 ignition module. NGK 7 EIX iridium spark plug. No modifications to the cylinder head. Standard valve setting, intake 0.10, exhaust 0.15. SITO PLUS exhaust installed.
It's a blast from a standstill !!! The midrange is also surprisingly nice, but the top speed is only between 90 km/h (56 mph) and 102 km/h (63 mph), depending on the terrain and whether the wind is blowing from behind or from behind, heh heh...
My friend has a 2005 Vespa LX 150cc, which he bought two years ago from a guy who imports motorcycles from abroad, so the origins are known, it's hard to ask. Supposedly, everything on this Vespa is original, but he hasn't disassembled it yet, not even looked at the engine. And yet this Vespa reaches a top speed of 105 km/h – 108 km/h (67 mph), with a supposedly 150cc displacement.
A riddle???!!! It supposedly has the original cylinder, the original gear ratio, the original CVK carburetor and jets, the standard AC 11 CDI module, and a top speed of 108 km/h (67 mph). It's true that mine is faster (more dynamic) at the start, and it was even faster at the start with the previous 150cc engine, but once it gets up to speed with its 150cc, it overtakes me and goes forward like a bullet!!!
So, to the point:
- It's true that the Liberty engine installed in the Lx is of unknown origin, the mileage is unknown, and the seller only guaranteed that it had compression.
Worn cylinder?
Blow-by in the head?
- Perhaps the original Piaggio Liberty 200 engine has a different, heavier crankshaft, due to the difference in design (the same crankshaft also works in the Vespa GT 200)?
- Perhaps the reason is the additional, rather heavy sprocket mounted on the variator counterplate, the so-called Torque Limiter (clutch), which is used to engage the starter (OEM number 840815, photo available at OEM Bike Parts)?
- Perhaps the design of the original Vespa Leader 150 engine is much more user-friendly for swapping just the 200cc cylinder from the Piaggio Liberty and yields better results? - Or maybe the original Vespa Lx 150 gearbox (15/46 – 16/41) allows for worse acceleration and better V-max speed?

Although my 150cc engine with the original gearing (15/46 – 16/41) only had a top speed of 96 km/h.
- Or maybe my friend already swapped the 150cc cylinder on his Vespa for a 190cc Malossi or 200cc Liberty, but he just doesn't know it, because the way this engine runs doesn't sound or perform like my old 150cc, ha, ha?
Earlier, colleagues here commented that, "quoting from formula":
The original compression ratio in the 150cc cylinder was 1:11.1, and in the 200cc cylinder, it was only 9.5:1. (In the Malossi 190cc cylinder, the compression ratio was 11.5:1). <And a higher compression ratio means more engine power???>
Yes, the 200AC only has 12-13 HP, only 20% more than the 125cc. But the TORQUE is MUCH higher, and with peak power at just 6750 rpm, the engine will last forever. The Malossi 190 kit alone, with no other changes and everything else stock, would generate only slightly more power, mainly due to the lighter piston, better heat transfer from the aluminum cylinder, and reduced blow-by from the rings, but probably still only 14-15 HP. And these 14 – 15 HP are not 12 – 13 HP and maybe that is why there is such a difference at V-max?
But on the other hand, to quote a forum member:
Project report: I've driven 35,000 km with a Malossi 190cc big bore kit.
The cylinder and piston are fine, like new. However, the piston ring clearance was 0.50 mm (standard is 0.15-0.30 mm, maximum 0.40 mm).
So I bought a new set of Malossi piston rings on eBay, and now the clearance is 0.25 mm.
- Hmm, 35,000 km is quite a while for a Vespa, but then again, it's not that much either, is it?
I've heard a rather poor review before about the durability of this Malossi 190 kit for the average user.
What do you think? Malossi 190 cylinder durability – (VS) – Piaggio Liberty 200??????
If anyone else has any experiences, or if something comes to mind and would like to write something, any observations, please do so ????

I also officially inform you that I humbly accept all words of criticism addressed to me and don't worry, I won't retaliate, he, he...

Warmest Regards to Everyone!!!

Hi man, i have a Zip 100cc 4 stroke running a 198cc Polini aluminium air cooled cilinder, same crank as the vespa et4 150 leader, standard head, valves and starter. Got a liberty 200cc CDI, top performance ignition coil, NGK iridium. Got also a Polini Variator w original fan and torque correctors, malossi delta maxi cluthc and bell, Polini primary elonged ratio. Carb is a Polini Pwk 30mm w cone. Exhaust is a Sito plus. Currently w small tires im running around 110/115 kmh, i sudgest u the primary ratio from polini, they penalize a bit the start but gives a lot on kmph. Running on 10 grams for the variator if i remember well. Ive tried to mount your same Malossi CDI but seems not compatible cause of the immobilizer. Any suggestion on how to remove the immobilizer? must replace key set and keyports?

Hi.
Hmm, we've tested this Malossi 551234 CDI a bit on 3 different Vespas:
Vespa GT 125 cc, 2006 (now GT 200) – the immobilizer was cracked without any problem, the plug was compatible.
Vespa LX (150 cc?), 2005 – the immobilizer was cracked without any problem, the plug was compatible.
Vespa LX 125 cc, 2006 (now 200 cc Liberty) – the immobilizer was cracked without any problem, the plug was compatible.
I'm not a great expert, but from what I've noticed so far... the possibility of connecting this Malossi 5512341 CDI depends on the type of plug you have, and the type of plug depends on the type of installation that was installed in the Piaggio scooter.
The VINs of these three vehicles (Vespas) begin with the letters ZAPM. I checked OEM Bike Parts today, and from what you're writing, it's a Piaggio ZIP 100cc, 4T, and its VIN seems to begin with the letters LBMM. Now, what I'm getting at is that I have another Piaggio FLY 125, 4T scooter in my garage, whose VIN also begins with the letters LBMM.
These scooters with VINs starting with the letters LBMM have a completely different electrical system than scooters with VINs starting with the letters ZAPM. The CDI module connector and the pinout in their dedicated modules (controllers) are completely different!!! I'm guessing this refers to the use of an additional throttle control (airflow meter) in the carburetor (near the carburetor).
You write that you currently have a CDI module from a Liberty 200. It has the OEM code CM078306 – a CDI designated AC 28I – and it's a module (socket) designed for the LBMM VIN. If I'm not mistaken, then unfortunately, a swap or modification to the electrical system will likely be necessary. As for the full swap, you'll need to look for systems from Piaggio vehicles with VINs starting with the letters ZAPM to connect the Malossi 551234 CDI. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Unfortunately, the Polini 198cc cylinder is no longer in production . I suspect it might still produce a bit more power than the standard Liberty 200.
If you're referring to the Polini 17/44 primary gear, it's included.

Yes was referring to that Primary Polini. The only thing i can suggest u to improve top speed is trying a bigger carburator, maybe a PHBG or PWK/flat valve and also put more grams in the variator. Another trick is swap the torque spring for a much harder one, currently im running the Blue Polini 243.077,

Specifico per: Piaggio Liberty 125/150 Leader 4T raffreddato ad aria
% di incremento: +20%
Carico molla mm/Kg: 60/30
Numero di spire: 5,5
Diametro del filamento: 4,5
Lunghezza molla scarica: 116
Diametro interno: 55,5

As for the CDI thank u for the suggestion, the CDI unit im running is not from the ZIP couse the og one had the bobine integrated. The one im running is (AC5) ACI503.02 827821 - 259 - 02 - 12V, it should come from the Liberty 150 but im not 100% sure couse wiring was done by another guy years ago.e ive attached a photo, just ignore the bad wiring eheheh. The port is same as the Malossi 5512341, but im worried about the absence of an immobilizer on the CDI (and consequentially on the wiring and keyshub) is born without stabilizer or has been excluded by the guy that initiated the swap im finishing

From what are u saying im gonna need swapping the electrical cables? Again thank u very much

For the Polini cylinder ive found one on Ponzi Racing, it is a trustable well known site here in Italy, here is the link:

https://www.ponziracing.it/dettaglio-prodotto/maxi-scooter-e-moto/motore/gruppi-termici/renault/gruppo-termico-polini-198cc-d-72-piaggio-vespa-125150-4t-lx-leader-alluminio-aria-corsa-486-140-0215/59955/

It is on sale!!

Hi again
Oh , you've got a real mess going on with that wiring. I don't know, I think I suggest looking for a new wiring harness for your scooter and doing it once and for all. Once you have a working connector, you'll be able to swap modules without any problems. Just look for an installation where the CDI connector matches the VIN number starting with ZAPM. From a Vespa LX 125, LX 150 (carburetor models), Piaggio Fly, but only the first 2006 models, I think. I'm sure you'll find one for a good price somewhere.
Perhaps even a simple plug transplant would save the day. I'd avoid soldering (extending) the cables, as it could cause problems with "cold solder joints" and sudden power loss later. Thanks for the advice, I still need to think about that carburetor. I've always had the impression that the CVK2600A only reacts later to the throttle, not the amount of mixture delivered to the cylinder. When I installed a slightly larger 84-gram jet, it muddied it up a bit. And since I'm somewhat comfortable, the choke automatically suits me . As for the rollers, I'll try installing 15-gram Malossi rollers in the spring, since I'm currently using 14-gram rollers. Thanks also to the friend for the link. Well, the Polinii 198 was purchased yesterday .
I was also considering a Malossi 190. It has a higher compression ratio, okay, but after 35,000 km, the ring play is still there, hmm... I'm having a hard time deciding on its durability. I have another test engine from a Vespa LX 125, so I'll have something to do this winter and see if there's any difference between the original Liberty 200 and the Polini 198, or if the Polini 198 is just a faithful copy of the original Piaggio 200, because after all, fun is fun .

Holy words of yours! About the polini 198cc, the gain is also derived from the aluminium body of the cilindro instead of Classic cast iron From Piaggio. Also if u check on this topic, post before the guy doing stage 2 has removed the decomprsssion device on the head, it will slightly improve the linearty of erogation.

Again thank u very much for the suggestion bout CDI wiring replacement, will do it asap and then try the malossi CDI once again. In regard to advancing the starter, since is possibile to reprogram the Malossi CDI, do you have done it? Or just staying on factory preset? In the next im gonna search also for a crank to replace mine, maybe also a longer stroke to port it at 218cc or similar w a spacer under the cylindeer. Any suggestion on products to place on 198cc Polini? Camahaft are not in production from anyone in europe but Malossi and Jasil should have a crank set

HELLO AGAIN
I have the original Malossi CDI module; I haven't tried reprogramming it.
Unfortunately, despite my sincere desire to buy a Polini 198 cylinder, it won't work anymore. The company recommended by a friend (link) refunded my money and replied that it's no longer available. Too bad . Oh well, I guess my only option is to go with an original Piaggio Liberty 200 or a Malossi 190. And since I'm not entirely convinced about the durability of the Malossi 190 cylinder, it looks like I don't have much choice. Oh well, I'll try tinkering with the secondary gear. The primary gear is a 17/44 Polini, of course, and I'll try to fit two Malossi gears into the secondary gear. I know the one for the Leader/Quazar 16/41 isn't suitable, but... a 16/42 secondary shaft, and a 41 gear??? We'll see if it works