Modern Vespa

Is this possible? From past posts I gather that the MP3 500 has 12 Amp in reserve, which barely covers the synergy jacket (6.7amp) and chap (3.8amp). I really like to add a second jacket for the passenger and also would like to have some excess capacity for HID lights upgrades also.

HID. Uses less then the stock 35watt. But what hou want is possible but expensive. You need a bigger battery and alternater then.

I believe the MP3 500 has 15 Amps to spare. The 12V outlet says 180W MAX, which is 12V * 15A.

Unless HIDs are labeled like CFLs, though, a 35W Halogen and a 35W HID will use the same amount of power: namely, 35W. You wouldn't be saving anything by switching. Now, safety issues are another story...

HID's use about 1/2 the amps as standard Halogens Bulbs after that initial start up and are 10 times brighter.

JIMC has covered this before. 12 amps sounds about right. Have not seen anything about a higher output altenator. Best bet would be HID's and replacing all the bulbs with LEDs. Would require load resistors for the flasher to function properly or replace the flasher with an electronic one.

Add a solar cell

You can get 15A from the accessory socket (because it's fused at 15A) - but the charging circuit will only deliver about 12A. The battery would deliver the other 3A, and will be discharging. Even using 12A, there's none spare to charge the battery reasonably quickly - but with a long ride a healthy battery should be OK. Just.

Long johns and lots of layers does the trick...

If you want to save power by using LEDs, you'll have to use a different flashers. All load resistors do is convert the power that would have gone to a regular incandescent bulb into heat. It completely defeats the power-saving benefits of LEDs...

First of all let's hope that both of the above have settings, like high and low on the jacket and the chaps. So hopefully you don't need to use the high all the time and all those amps. If not see if there's a controller made by the company (jacket/chaps) that does this. The cheapest way is to try and just plug them in and use them and see what happens. Having said that I'd have a AAA membership card in my wallet just in case the battery drains .

So if that doesn't work you can always mount an extra battery under the seat for that extra amperage and run everything off of that battery. With a one way regulator that allows the extra battery to be charged but will not drain your 1st scooter battery you should be good to go.

Which ever way you go your going to need a good quality float charger to top up the batteries in between rides

Thanks CubsKing, I wondered about the resistors. So all LEDs and replace the flasher with an electronic one. Signal Dynamics makes one, It would alter the emergency flasher operation but give you self-canceling turn signals once you modify the turn signal switch. Have to bypass the latching function.

http://www.signaldynamics.com/index.php/products/led-lighting?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=36&category_id=43

The MP3 doesn't have an alternator, it has a integral generator/dynamo. The only way to increase its output would be to get more turns of wire on the stator, or a new stator with more poles. There are people who will custom wind a stator for you; probably would be hard to get more than another 10% more amps however.

If you use resistors on the leds, you have saved no power. It appears that with the Piaggio turn signal/hazard unit it won't be terribly easy to use an electronic flasher suitable for leds. I'm planning on a mod that will solve this and keep the hazard functionality, but first I have to find a male connector that mimics the end of the Piaggio unit...

Ah, well. I'm not in too much of a hurry.

Cheers!

John

Why would keeping the hazard functionality be an issue? The hazard lights already work normally even with LEDs installed. Only the turn indicator blink rate is faster.

My thought when I looked at the connector was that we don't need a 12-pin plug. Only 8 of the pins are used anyway. We just need some smaller plugs that can be grouped together. I haven't checked yet, but I think the front panel leads for a motherboard out of an old PC case will work...

Mark

I like to mod in a "plug-n-play" fashion, so that it is easily returnable to stock.

Cheers!

John

We've started to usurp this thread (sorry, OP!), but the original unit functionally contains a flasher, a two turn signal circuits, and a latching relay to combine the two circuits. If you intercept the two separate turn signal circuits to insert compatible led flashers, you have disconnected the hazard relay. There are also somewhere (in the cluster?) a couple of diodes to keep the common indicator from cross-feeding the turn signals.

I surmise the reason the flasher works acceptably in hazard mode is that you have doubled the load to the flasher.

So, I got to figure it out and then come up with a new single unit that will give me the functionality I want...

Cheers!

John

I'm actually in the process of doing this in my lx150 to run a heated vest and gloves for my daily commute to work in Boston. For years I've gone without heated gear and I just can't do it anymore. Once Boston gets into the 20s and teens forget it.

Can you elaborate on the one way regulator? I have the second battery, got 2 battery charger jrs.

Would the regulator negate having to run the batteries in parallel, something that I would like to avoid as I'd like to just run the gear independently off of the 'extra' battery.

flyingpertyhigh,

If you haven't bought your heated stuff yet, just get the jacket first. I have found the the jacket helps keep my hands warm, because my core and arms are warm, and ended up never buying the gloves.

This idea is very common in the marine industry. Many outboard motors also use stators and produce minimal output, meaning that if you try to drive a stereo, radar, etc. you actually use more amps than the stator can produce. So a two-battery system is employed, with the starting battery being charged first, then once up to a full charge the starting battery is isolated, and the second battery receives the charging current. The system ensures that regardless of how long you "leave the lights on," you can still start the engine and get home.

For this to work, the starting battery needs to only power the starting and engine-running circuits, and everything else - lights, instruments, heated gear, gps, etc. all gets moved to the second battery. Since this isn't really practical on a scoot, you would likely just move the new loads to the second battery. The disadvantage is that there is overhead for the isolator, and you are likely to have little left for charging the second battery. If your typical ride is 15 minutes or less, you probably won't get any net charge; an hour's ride and there will be some charging going on.

That still won't overcome the problem of asking for more amps than your stator can deliver, and adding the isolator actually will reduce total output.

I would probably just charge the second battery via the 110v charger and call it a day, but if you would like to see how it's done check out Blue Seas Systems or BEP and look at VSRs and/or ASRs. I don't know who would make them small enough for a scoot ofhand.

Cheers!

John

I did a little Googling, and found a battery isolator circuit that you could build that might be able to fit and is appropriately sized for the job. (Most commercial units are made to accommodate a higher input amperage and so have large heat sinks that would be hard to fit.)

Anyways, have a look if you are still so inclined:

http://discovercircuits.com/H-Corner/bat-iso.htm

Cheers!

John

There is. Battery. That has the same size as the ytx 16 bs. And it has 16amps

Its fora honda varadeo. Ytx18b

I've used a Yandina battery combiner a couple times on some marine work, and in a van that stays off the grid a lot. They do the job, although these are much larger applications than a scooter. Their 100a unit is teeny, seems it would be suitable if doubling up on batteries. At least you'd only drain the second battery down if using more current than the generator produces.

Nice find, that! Although, while the unit is small, it comes with a lot of wire that you cannot shorten. Might be a bit of trouble to figure out where to stash that...

I'm worried about the space and weight of the second battery. Might be time to look into lithium ion - it's only money, after all.

Cheers!

John

It's not Lithium Ion, it's Lithium Iron. Have no idea what the difference is though.

Lithium Ion is the term to express the type of battery technology (Lead-Acid, NiCad, NiMh, Lithium Ion, etc.).

Lithium Iron is the term used in the sub-class of Lithium Ion technology to differentiate between conventional Lithium Ion (which uses lithium cobalt dioxide, LiCoO2) and the newer, potentially less toxic Lithium Iron (lithium iron phosphate, LiFePO4).

Shorai has moved to Lithium Iron, but there are still lots of lithium cobalt batteries out there, and often for cheaper prices. As the barker says, "ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances... "

Cheers!

John