Modern Vespa

Third time this had happened.... Waiting for a tow right now.

So. My GTV starts right up cold.... Rides like a dream, I ride for maybe 10 or more miles, turn it off, come back 15 minutes later and it will not start. Last time I was able to charge it, and then it ran and started up fine for four days.... And now it did it again. I'm dropping it off at the dealer for their service department to look at it but what gives? It seems to me that if it was the battery it would not start in the morning or after sitting a couple of days. But it starts up fine then. I use premium gas.

Any ideas????

That really sucks Mutt. Does the starter seem sluggish or is it just missing the spark?

Was the fuel pump ever changed? Won't start is a vague description that could be weak battery or a problem with fuel flow.

Sorry for not giving more information. I was standing with my Scooter and my iphone waiting for my tow.... and he came just as I was typing. Home now, so hopefully I can give a better description of what happened.

First of all, yes, the fuel pump was changed. But who knows, maybe the new one has an issue?

Anyway, not quite two weeks ago I rode to the local camera store to pick up photo paper. The place is maybe...7 miles from here. The scooter started up just fine, I rode to the store, came out, and it grunted like it wanted to turn over, but nothing. I looked at my fuel gauge and it said it was at a quarter tank. I thought maybe I was out of gas, even though the indicator light had not started to so much as flicker. But it seemed like it was sort of starved for gas.... so I thought maybe the fuse for my light blew and that I was either out or really low. I called roadside assistance, and they said it would be between one and two hours. In the mean time a guy who rides motorcycles but was driving a truck stopped and asked what was up. He thought maybe I was out of gas, gave me about half a gallon, and it did indeed start up. At that point it had been sitting a good hour. I got home fine. The next morning it started right up as of nothing had happened. I filled it up and it was fine. Then Monday I rode to Edwardsville, which is maybe 25 miles from here. It started up fine, I added gas when I got there, did some errands, came back a half hour later and it would not go. It grunted. Luckily Moto Italia was close, and even though they are only opened for appointments on Monday, I was lucky and the owner answered the phone and came out to where I was. He tried to start it, and the battery sounded dead. He jumped it, it started right up, and I followed him to the shop. He checked the voltage, and it was right where it needed to be. He could not stress check the batter because when I got there it had fully re-charged. I got home without any issues. I rode yesterday without any issues. Today I rode it about 10 miles, stopped to do one errand, I came out, and it started right up. I rode another 5 miles or so, stopped for another errand, came out in about 20 minutes and it grunted. Actually, the first time, it did start, but it was weak and it died about 3 or four seconds later, then it just grunted.... er-er-er-er...... like that. Continuing to try simply wears the battery down so I just let it be. The tow truck from Roadside assistance got there in a little over an hour, and it would not start for him either. It is now at the tow place waiting to go to Vespa Saint Louis in the morning, because OF COURSE, this all had to happen right after they closed.

So..... ???? I would think that if it was a battery issue, I would have problems trying to start it in the morning after sitting all night, or for an entire day..... but it starts right up. I use premium fuel, usually Shell. Occasionally Mobil. Someone asked me if I used the key or the kill switch. I use the key. And I had the 2,000 mile service a little over a month ago.... I now have about 2,600 on the odometer.

I hope this info gives a bit more insight to the issue. I can't think of anything else.... the lights.... everything else seems to be working fine. No weird noises.... nothing that would indicate something not quite right except that it will not start in the above situations. I LOVE riding my Vespa, but I like to ride it rather far out, and now I am afraid I will get stranded. I have been lucky that it died where it died, but if I rode up the River Road, or to the Missouri wine country.... I could be stranded in a place where getting back could be an issue. Not to mention getting stranded in the wrong part of Saint Louis..... which is not hard to do.

Your battery probably has a cell (or cells) that are going bad. The repair shop should put the battery on a load tester to determine this. Another possibility is that your battery is not getting charged enough due to a lot of very short rides and when it sits for a while, it regenerates enough to start the scooter. The shop should find the problem quickly.

Mutt,

That's a bummer, hope they figure it out, and they will, but I'm thinking it could be a battery issue as well, although it seems to act up at strange times. How old is your battery? Can't remember what year your scoot is?

It is a 2009 scooter that had 445 miles on it when I got it. It belonged to the dealer. I think they put a new battery in it when they prepped it. As far as lots of short rides.... What constitutes short? I do use it for errands, but if I ride to school that is about 15-16 miles each way. Most I'd the times my shorter rides are about 7 miles... But at least twice a week I ride to Edwardsville which is about 25-30 miles each way depending in my route, and on the weekends if the weather is nice I may ride 50 or 60 miles each way.... Sometimes more. Considering scooters are ridden a lot in European and Asian cities as a primary mode of transportation, I am finding it difficult to believe that on some days where I may ride only 5 or 7 miles each way is somehow detrimental. So... For example, I'd I return books to the downtown library, (I live in the city), then pick up some art supplies maybe 7 miles the other way, and then stop at the grocery store.... That's a bad thing? I live un the city. I thought that is what scooters were built for.... Hence the smaller displacement. And the short errand days are usually twice a week as u try to group those trips together to save time. The rest if the time I rude out a lot further. Not trying to argue, but just trying to clarify if I am doing something I shouldn't be doing. I know lots of little stop and go trips are hard in your car... You need more oil changes etc., but at the same time it seems that any vehical should be able to handle a certain amount if that stuff. Some days you just don't need to drive or ride 20,30 or more miles.

Then you're riding it enough to keep the battery charged. Either the new battery that was installed when you purchased the scooter was not charged properly for the initial charge (this happens at lot) or you have a voltage regulator problem............or you just got a faulty battery. In any case, the problem with the slow turning of the engine is related to a battery with low charge. The shop will find it by first load testing the battery and if the battery is okay, they'll check the charging system. Hopefully, they'll get you back on the road quickly.

In Colorado, I had about the same riding pattern that you do now (though my bike and battery were both brand spanking new at that point, too). Never had any battery or starting issues unless it was below zero out.

Now that I'm generally only doing a mile or two at a time, and then letting it sit for a few days in between, my battery is finally giving up the ghost. Granted, it is now a 4 year old battery. But it didn't start having problems until I'd been into this new riding pattern for a few months.

Not sure if that's helpful info or not. Seemed relevant enough to mention.

They will be checking my scooter out on Tuesday. It could be worse. It is not my only mode of transportation... I have my car, and a Buddy 50. But they're not my Vespa

But I have work to do, so I should not be riding around this weekend anyway. I just want my gorgeous machine back as soon as possible, and reliable again.

I hope you will be riding again soon, but what 2000 mile service?

AFAIK, there is a 3k mi check and a 6k mi service. What does your owners manual say?

They changed the oil and the filter, went over everything, etc. Next service is in another 3,000
Right at the moment I don't know what the owner's manual says because I am still unpacking boxes from my recent move.

My Vespa service department called me regarding the issue with my GTV not starting. My battery is damaged. It was a brand new battery in late June when they prepped it for me. The battery was not just worn down... Something happened to damage it. Now the question is.... Was it a faulty battery, which the service guy said was possible, or.... Something in the electrical system damaged it. I love the Joel, he is REALLY thorough and I'm sure he will figure it out.... In the meantime if I scoot I'm on my Buddy. Anyone have a similar issue?

The battery in my wife's scooter (bought new) shorted out, internally within five months. Nothing else wrong with the charging system, etc. It just went kaput. I put a new one in it and the problem didn't return.
Unless your voltage regulator is defective and overcharging the battery, you probably just received a bad battery. Stuff happens.

I've had several batteries in the past which pegged out with shorted cells until I learned that they *must* be given a forming charge when new, regardless of type. Since then (many years ago) all my batteries have lasted just fine for at least three years, including long periods (up to 3 months) of neglect. One regularly used one has lasted five years.

well i bought a battery for a 50cc zip
a few weeks ago,
on instruction it said to put battery
straight on bike and run it BEFORE, you charge it ,
and yes i did read inst twice or three times to make sure ,then phoned shop to find out its right ,yep straight on bike ,and its running a treat

I'm curious because I've never heard of this before. As JimC posted, batteries need a forming charge before use or their useful life may be shortened.
Would you please tell me:
*What is the brand name on the battery?
*Is it an AGM, Gel or Wet Cell battery?
Thank you

Were those instructions from the seller or a battery manufacture? If from the seller, they may charge the battery before they ship it so it doesn't need charging. If from the manufacture, I am stumped.

I have a new GTV. THe dealer drilled a small hole in the gas cap before delivering it to me. Ha said it would prevent vapor lock which he thought was a problem with this scooter. I'm not having any problem. Couldn't hurt to try it.

Now what happens if you drop you scooter? Gas drips out of the gas cap. They should have just removed the Evap System that causes the problem.

???
What does drilling a hole in the gas cap have to do with a battery or charging problem?
*And your dealer is very misinformed re. the problems with the evaporative canister system if he drilled a hole in the gas cap to solve what he called "vapor lock". Drilling a hole in the gas cap will let gas fumes under the seat where it get's pretty warm....and that's not the smartest thing that anyone should do with any vehicle unless they want to increase their chances of an explosion or a fire.

I have a drilled cap on my Buddy. I don't have an evap system. Vapo lock is notorious on Buddys. I think George just read a early post and was commenting on a "starting" problem and didn't read about the battery. Rookie mistake. He seems a good guy, so I'll cut him some slack.

The only type that doesn't need a forming charge for future longevity (regardless of what a Chinese manufacturer might say) is the LiFePO4 type (Shorai etc). Any lead-acid battery of whatever construction should have this 'equalising' charge before daily use to ensure the longest life.

An interesting experiment is to put such a "don't need to charge" battery on a battery tender - it can take up to 8 hours before the tender pronounces itself happy. And yes, I did one such yesterday, a sealed YTX-16BS which said it was 'ready to use'. Sure, it'd have worked just fine, and would have charged itself with enough riding - but the cells would have never got to a proper equilibrium state just used on most people's daily commute of less than 10 miles each way.

It doesn't take long to use the battery tender - and it will save frustration next year when the cold snaps start again.

I'm just hoping it was a bad battery from the get go and nothing more serious. I just miss riding it. I used my Buddy to go to the polls with.... and it was great because street parking was pretty bad, so parking on the sidewalk was a plus. But I sure miss my GTV.... I WANT MY GTV!!!!

+1

Next to heat, vibration can be a battery killer. Not very common but sounds like you may just have had a bum battery. Only time will tell. If they put the new one in and check out the electrical system properly you should be fine!

Yeah, that's what I am hoping. I'm getting a better battery too. I just really miss riding it. I really love it, and now that I have it... I hate driving. I'd rather bundle up and ride in the cold than get in my car. Silly I know...

Okay. I got my GTV back. It had corroded battery leads/connectors and fried my battery. Everything cleaned etc. and new upgraded battery and so far so good.

Mutt, you're back! Glad your GTV is fixed.

And just in time for the weekend! Assuming the weather will be good for riding... 8)

And now for the weather..

I'm glad to be up and running again. The weather was beautiful today, and tomorrow is supposed to be nice as well. Then rain, and then who knows.... It's November