Modern Vespa

traveled with a moto in tow.

So, I get the basic idea as to what needs to be done, but
any input would be helpful and or pictures of what you do.

Also I was all set to buy some good ratchet straps until I saw some videos and they say-bad idea, use the cam style buckles.

Easier to tighten and loosen with one hand and hold up better?

Oh, and do you lock the front end or leave it open?

I bought a 5' x 8' drop gate new/used. Its from Tractor Supply.
Has wood flooring.

Thanks

Add:
I also bought CANYON DANCER 32" Bar-Harness II, this seemed like a good thing to use.

Also have some soft straps coming. I was told you never want to just hook the metal j-hooks to the bike, always use a soft strap and the j hook to that.

All makes sense so far.

I bought the trailer used, they got it from the TS store. It's got 70 miles on it.

take it back and get a 10 footer

I'm not sure why they're down on ratchet straps... but here's the procedure. See this for reference on the tie-down attachment points mentioned: Tie down points for the MP3/Fuoco

Anyway. Roll your bike up into the trailer and put the front wheels in the wheel chocks. Make sure the MP3 is nice and level and centered.

Leave the parking brake off.

Hook the rear straps around the top connector part of the shock where it is narrow, just below the bolt. You want the other end to be hooked into the trailer forward and out from the rear wheel to pull the bike forward into the chocks.

Tighten the rear straps just enough to start stabilizing the bike so it can't fall over.

Now release the tilt lock so the front end rises up fully on the shocks. Leave the tilt lock off.

Attach the hooks of your front straps to the steel part about halfway up on each side of the front end. These also need to connect forward and out from the bike to pull it forward and down.

Tighten the front straps down until the shocks are compressed halfway. This will leave a little flex for them to absorb road bumps and the like while still pulling down solidly on the bike to keep it stable.

Go back to the back and tighten those straps down, likewise, to half compression or so.

Check your securing. The bike, basically, should not move. Rather, the trailer should move if you try to rock or shift the bike. Check your stuff again about ten miles down the road and every now and then after when you stop. If you see the bike walking to one side or the other when you check it, you need to adjust your straps to stop that from happening.

When unloading, what worked for me was to release the front straps, re-engage the lock, and then undo the back straps.

Agreed with 10-footer. You need a little room. All of the MP3's are pushing 8' long.

I have mine using condor chocks on each front wheel and ratchet straps. Rears loop over the frame tubes under the tupperware above the rear shock (I am not sure if that translates to the 500). For the fronts, I pass the strap through the heavy metal loop that connects the front and rear see-saws in the tilt mechanism. They are very heavy metal.

All the rest of the stuff is the same like tilt lock off and ratchet down a half. One thing I do as well is to have the hooks on the ends of the straps in opposite directions and then use a cable tie to lock them together in the middle of the "S". It keeps the casual bump from popping off a hook.

Don't use the CANYON DANCER 32" Bar-Harness II. The steering tube could be damaged.

I've used my 8-ft utility trailer to haul Red Dog a number of times and it always worked fine, never had any issues with length limitations. A 10-ft model might haul more stuff but since he's already got the 8-ft version I think he'll be OK.

Re using Canyon Dancers, I use those on some of my bikes including a Vespa 250ie but on Red Dog I stick with regular ratcheting straps. I think what most of the comments are directed at is to not over stress the steering and suspension components. That would be very good advice.

LL75

Not when I do it. Just don't overtighten it.

Any time my MP3s are on my MC lift I use the CyD to keep the MP3 from falling over. My 400 is on the lift right now that way.

Wait till you hit that big bump that puts enough stress on the steering tube.
I love the, "It hasn't happen to me" attitude people take and tell everyone it's ok to do, because they have done it with no issues.
You willing to pay for any ones steering tube that gets bent? If not, don't say it's ok to do

I picked up my MP3 from Chicago about a month ago, using a 5'x10' trailer. I secured it by putting the front tires against the front of the trailer and using Canyon Dancer 36505 Black X-Wide Bar-Harness II http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013LDM46/ref=oh_details_o01_s01_i00 to secure the front. I used two Keeper 16" Soft Tie Extension ( awesome for strong attachment points without damaging the paint) \http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CODH0O/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i01 with two TEKTON 15-Foot by 1-Inch Ratchet Tie Downs http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0037V0FMC/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00 to secure the rear. I pulled it using my Ford Ranger avg 70 mph for 5 1/2 to 6 hours. I had absolutely no problems.

Don't do that again if you can possibly help it. The main steering tube is hollow and there have been numerous examples of it being deformed when tying down an MP3 using a canyon dancer type setup, as the tube was not designed to take those forces.

Glad to hear you didn't have to pull the whole front end off to replace the first part to be installed

ck out this thread offering steering plugs for the mp3

They put the same force on the steering tube as the Canyon Dancers.

I disagree, if you mean those bar end thingies for attaching a tie down to. With the CyD you get even pressure across the handlebar since it's 1 piece. With the bar ends you can have uneven pressure on the steering stem, IMHO.

It's not uneven pressure that bends the steering tube, it's to much pressure. Don't strap it down by the handle bars, period.

Look, I've done it my way for 1,400 miles w/no regrets. In fact when I bought my 400 a year ago I trailered it this way for 700 miles before I could really ride it. You do it your way, I'll do it my way, kapisch?

You have been lucky. Several others haven't. Not doing it is GOOD ADVICE.

WEB-Tech, Fuzzy and several others are ABSOLUTELY correct. The are many here that offered the proper advice. Using a CD is playing poker with the central steering column .... I'm betting on a bent tube under load while hitting the right bump in the road. Been there and fixed that. (At dealer expense)

So if using the CD is a bad idea, where is a better place?
you do need to pull down on the suspension correct?

Thanks for all the info thus far.

Alan

Could I not just use the CD and an extra safety? not pulling it too tight?

here are some good pics to look at in this thread

Piaggio's "fix" for loose handlebar... recall?

Look above where I gave the step-by-step for tying down. One of the first things I included was a link to another place here showing exactly where to hook onto the bike.

And no, you HAVE to tie down very snugly, you can't really avoid the high liklihood of damage and still be tying the bike down securely. The two go hand in hand.

One thing I forgot to put in the wiki is it may be a good idea to put zip ties on the anchor points both on the scoot and trailer. This is to help prevent them from unhooking in the event of hitting a hard bump. Unlikely but possible.

Any force sufficient to dislodge a properly oriented and tightened ratchet strap's hook would be far more than the force required to break a plastic zip-tie though. Even the largest of the ties aren't designed to actually resist any kind of serious pulling stress.

He's talking about tie wrapping the hook of the strap so it doesn't come off.

Mount hook on bike and vehicle or trailer, then use the tie wrap so the hook can't come loose. Not sure if that helps explain it better or not.

I use a bungee cord between the two hooks to take up any slack from a bump.

Here are some pictures of my 5 X 8 Trailer. I don't have any problems hauling either of my bikes. 5 x 10 would be nice, but not really necessary for my use.

I have since installed rails on the floor with adjustable tie points to accommodate the MP3 or the GTS.

Be sure and use the correct tie down points on the MP3.
Do not use Canyon Dancer on Handle Bars...

Keith,
Marietta, GA

Exactly. Here are some pics to show detail from my setup prior to the May 2010 Gathering

Gee, that looks cool. And somehow familiar... 8)

I understand what he's saying. And I'm saying that using zipties to secure the hook is no good, as they are easily broken. It would take a LOT to dislodge the hooks from their attachment points when properly tensioned down for trailering the bike, and that force would be more than enough to break any plastic zip tie I've seen.

Possibly, but they would not break if there was a sudden slackening happened to the strap since there would be no force on them. They may pop when the slack is taken up but then they will have done their job by then.

No, No, you don't understand what I Sticky and I are saying. Will post a picture.

If I was actually using it to secure them, I agree.

All the tie does is keep them together. The real force in the tie down is back and forth pullling on the hooks. What the tie is meant to prevent is a hook by itself coming off the tie down anchor point by making both hooks move in unison. The open sides are opposite. In a way, this is similar to those hooks you see that have a rivet and two open hooks facing each other. You close the open section around what you are holding on to. The strength is by no means in that rivet, but in the hooks themselves.

So, how does the tie wrap have any stress on it at all??

No tie down straps at work, all I had to work with was Cat5 cable and a hand truck. But, it shows what we are saying.

I would never use Cat 5 to tie a scoot down with Geeze. but the concept of securing the hook end to the tiedown point with a zip-tie is a good idea, so the hook will not bounce out of the eye bolt if there ever was enough slack in the tie down.

Sorry, but I'm not going to be able to agree with you. The picture is irrelevant, I know what you're talking about doing, there's no confusion here. I use some of the largest ties to secure excess chain/marker light wire length up away from the road on my trailer, and those can be busted off with a minor twist of a pliers. That's nothing compared to the force to dislodge a well seated, correctly oriented and tensioned strap hook. And if that strap is losing tension enough to just wander off such that this would help, that means you didn't tension it properly, or that another strap has broken.

Sorry bro but you are still not getting it. Not sure how to explain it again so you will. One last try. The zip tie is there only to keep the hook in place in case there is slack in the tie down momentarily. What force would break that?

No, I get it fine. I specifically addressed that.

No you didn't. The zip tie is just keeping the hook in place. It is not in line asorbing any force. The hook is securely fastened to the anchor point and the zip tie is just keeping the works together in case of a sudden slackening of the tie down strap. Why is this so hard for you to get? NO FORCES ON THE ZIP TIE! Done with it.

While you guys into overkill argue, I'm doing it my way with no regrets.

No you don't get it, a twist tie off a bag of bread would do the job

You do understand the bend in the Cat5 cable is representing a metal hook on the end of a tie down strap

Jeez.... everyone knows cat 6 is minimum for high speed hauling tie down. Spend extra for shielded cat 6 to avoid interference.