Modern Vespa

When the Salesman who works for BMW actually agrees that they are well overpriced you know you're in trouble.

I know this because I now work for BMW.

Bill X

I thought you worked for a dealership? And all BMWs are overpriced. Probably. Nice work as usual Alice!

Well technically BMW pay my bonus and Inchcape pay my wages so it's open to argument who I work for.

Do they actually actually directly employ me ? No. Do I physically work for them ? Yes.

Do I give a toss ? No.

Bill X

I would think Inchcape are doubtless better than BMW Park Lane who are directly owned by BMW. I don't like the way Park Lane do business at all... In fact after the beast has had it's first service, I won't be going anywhere near them ever again. What finally did it for me was when they wanted to charge for adding a rider to their policy to take a test ride. If that is their business model...

The C600 Sport continues to be the best scooter I have ever ridden. It is also much nicer to ride than a Mana and very nearly as quick, I just don't like the riding postion of a proper motorcycle which is why, for me, the "you could buy suchandsuch a motorcycle for that money" argument just doesn't wash. Sure there are better scooters for other duties; the BV or GTS for town (actually the BV works quite well on the open road too...). I would say the Tmax excels as a dual purpose tourer/town scoot, but the BMW works very well on the open road, both twisty and multi-lane; I wouldn't ride it by choice in heavy traffic though as it has a dry clutch - the Yamaha's wet one was far nicer.

TDI = Diesel

It's no cake walk to fit a heavy diesel power plant to a PTW.

If comparing mileage and power I'd stick to at least the same basic power source. Petrol.

just where in the uk do your friends have problems getting scooters services we have scooter shops all and motobike shops will also do service, we have main piaggio uk distribution centre in Bristol and its easy to get vespa spares ,uk scooter scene is
far bigger than the states ,and we tend to ride year round

Gentlemen, I think comparing fuel consumption of diesel vs maxi scooter is irrational. Somebody asked me a question years ago- convertible or motorcycle? Yeahhh. "Sir, do you prefer women or (art, food, travel, planets etc)?" The question itself is not correct because it consists of strong and maybe rigid opinion of a person who ask it. If talk about a hobby-hobby doesn't like logic. If you like something and willing to pay for it- this is good enough reason no matter what other people think. I am die hard shifter but I really admire modern machines and even nonVespa. BMW is definitely can't be overlooked. I would test one. I would test 946 too. And if I decide to buy one or another my decision will not be based on price, max speed, fuel economy, pounds-kilograms per dollar etc. Hobby decision is an emotional one for me. But it is only my opinion.
Thank you for the BMW review.

That would be Fowlers, yes? High on the list of dealers whose doors I will never again darken, after various cocksup. Charmingly put. I salute and thank you!

There may be less of a problem finding somewhere trustworthy and efficient to have one's Vespa serviced but this thread is about maxiscooters.

It appears - I repeat 'appears' - that manufacturers in general have little interest in maxis in the UK and only sell or repair them grudgingly.

I shall find out soon whether Honda fall into this category when I take my Silverwing in for servicing.

I trust this will not be the case with BMW.

There is no irrationality in comparing transportation devices designed to propel individuals and cargo on roads via wheels to each another, regardless of power train. My comparison is totally utility in nature and was used to evoke thoughts about just how some choices are grossly inferior to others from an entirely efficiency basis, and the fact that there are few PTWs for sale that come close to the efficiency that we have come to expect from autos.

I used the Jetta TDI, because I know the numbers, but one could use the 2013, direct-injection, 1.4-liter-motivated, Chevy Cruise instead of a 2006 diesel if one wants to contend that diesel versus spark ignition, or that 2013 versus 2006 is invalid. The Cruise, I assume, exceeds 115 hp and about the same torque and weighs at or about 3000 lbs and has a top speed of 110 plus and gets an EPA-est. 42 mpg hwy, and achieves all of this with more than double the rubber contacting the road than most PTWs. This means that this much more powerful, heavy, roomy, and utilitarian vehicle uses only slightly more fuel than the new BMW scooter; not an indictment on the BMW, but the PTW industry as a whole, as some on here have contended that the new BMW scooter is efficient. I say it is not efficient, and that the only way one may contend that it is efficient is to compare it to more inefficient PTW products!

The point of my post is that, when we see that a 550 lb scooter with 60 hp gets 42 mpg @ 75 mpg, we should all be shocked at how inefficient this is compared to what is offered to the car-buying public and wander why the industry has fallen so far behind from an efficiency standpoint.

HEAVY???

Not so fast in your assumptions...

www.dieselmotorcycle.com


667 cc, naturally aspired, mechanically-injected, light-weight diesel engine mounted in a Kawasaki 650 frame, sold to military units around the world. 30 hp, 35 peak foot lbs of torque, 100 mph, 102 mpg @ 55 mph; runs on five fuels.

But the post above was not about power train or diesels; there are many spark-ignition examples to prove my point.

Wow !!! it looks great........if you want to look like you are riding just another plastic fantastic scooter !!! just like all the other brands with a hiked up price tag !!! if you have one its because you can and not because its any better than the other brands on offer !!!
Its a clone !!!!

I am sorry but it looks W*nk !!! I will keep my GTS300 thanks !!

Actually it is better than any of its competitiors in the maxi/sport scooter segment; not just my opinion either but the opinion of the various European Scooter press, who have consistently ranked it in pole postition. It may be indeed be a clone, but at least it outperforms the original.

i saw BMW scooter today at supermrt
and spoke to owner, who said he thinks he should have kept his motobike ,said wasnt sure about the scoot now he had it,

he paid slightly under 10grand ,you can get a good car for that money,
in this wet country

i would spend that amount of money on a car,
no way that amount on a scooter

When we are scooter shopping we don't want to buy a car or a motorbike. If we want to buy a large, powerful scooter; then there isn't a huge amount of choice and all of them are pretty much over £8000.

1) BMW never went broke by creating a top end product

2) It is priced competitively with the rivals it faces

3) Stop whining about what people spend their money on, its a free country

4) If we didn't like a premium product on this forum then we would be riding Honda Cubs

No comment...

I predict a short tenure.

I agree i,ll keep my gts and the 10 grand in my pocket,
is a lot of money to get wet thru ,half the winter its not fit to ride ,and the cagers are all blind

Oh for Pete's sake... he's entitled to an opinion, even if he does use too many exclamation points.

My names not Pete.

I was merely making the observation that when a new user shows up full of bluster and very loud opinions, they usually have a very short tenure here.

Some people start posting before they've really absorbed the MV tone. Those people don't last long.

So yes. He's entitled to his opinion. And I'm entitled to my opinion that he won't be here very much longer if he continues to be excessively rude. Newbies are on a very short leash, remember.

Slow down Mr wannabe forum Cop !! a few post or a lot whats the difference ? it doesnt mean I cant have an opinion......just like its my opinion when I say you either have too much time on your hands or nothing better to do as you have over 24 thousand posts !!! get over it pal as the idle threats of being kicked off dont faze me one bit !!!

And whats wrong with the word Wink ? is it illegal on this forum

Maybe taking the (excellent) advice and absorbing the tone might have been a good idea as suggested.

Seeing Jess called a cop is at least something new. I guess in a sense Warren Buffett IS an accountant.

Oh look, the prophecy fulfills itself.

What the hells the matter with you lot, cant you take some constructive criticism jimmyboys hardly said any wrong ,other
than the BMW looks w.nk,
over here a scooter or a bike is more a tool to be used every day,

not so much a hobby,a lots due to our terrible weather ,
but surely some of you should grow up and be a man.

A forum would not be any good with some lively debate ,and you will get differences of opinion being this site is international, makes more interesting,
its no good as all being like sheep, and 10 grand is a hell lot money in the uk for a scooter to go to work on

Au contraire, mon frere. What you also seem to have missed in your first 96 posts here is that there is an accepted tone to the conversation here, and Jimmyboy failed to absorb that before spewing chunks all over a conversation that he wasn't even a part of to begin with. It's kind of like walking into a bar in a town you've never been to, butting into the conversation the locals are having, and then insulting them.

And no, there was nothing constructive about it.

If that's what you consider good manners, then please, by all means, continue. I'll be holding the door for you too.

An interesting side note: Over the years, I've observed that users who fit this "type" are more likely to come from certain parts of the US than others. I'm now expanding my observation to include Northern England in that group. This may be an acceptable way to behave in public in your region of the world, but it's most certainly not acceptable here.

Well hello,Jess
but im from eastern england ,i dont mean to offend any one
but we tend to say it how it is over here ,,i think its to do with different cultures ,also tho our languages is slightly different
between american english and british

so things can be taken wrong way without meaning too
keith

Fair enough. But you're still also fairly far North. I apologize for having only a vague grasp of the proper terminology for UK regions. This I've noticed on more than one occasion. And as I said, it may be appropriate there, but it's not appropriate here. Over the seven years I've been running the forum, I've conversed at length with hundreds of Brits, and so I'm fairly familiar with the differences in language. This is not one of those differences. This is one of manners.

Generalizing, much? I thought you Bay Area "type" people were more enlightened than that.

Note carefully that I did not say everyone from that region behaves in a particular way. Just that the "type" tends to come from certain areas more often than other regions.

Please replace your knee to its normal position.

No need for apology, north of uk is Scotland london is down south im sort of in middle,
our country is very tiny compared to yours,
we can go from one end country to other in a day an half
depends were you start from,
only around 800mile,one good thing about is all our traffic laws are same.

Its really nice to talk to you i have met a lot your country folk im a ex railway conductor ,and i dont like saying this but you folk have a lot better manners than a lot of british people,
especially a lot younger generaton

Now you're just buttering me up.

lol no way man,
but maybe i,ll buy you a beer

I went and sat on the GT and the Sport....
My opinions are, the GT has an ugly flat front end.....The rear looks great. The seat seems more more comfortable and adjustable.....It seems to be meant for two, than the sport.
The Sport looks great in the front end, but the rear has those ugly mickey mouse turn signals in the rear....The helmet storage that expands to the rear tire, will not last, if you forget to retract it!
The Scooters was so heavy, I had the salesman spot for me, when I took it of the center stand.....My Scarabeo 200 weighs 335 lbs, these feel way too much....
If you want a maxi scooter and have the cash, go for it. But, I don't feel comfortable for one that is so big and heavy....
I will not get off subject.....

Yet you would spend 6 to 7K on a GTS 300?? Go figure, the BMW is more than worth the difference.

If you forget to retract it, the bike will not start. The thing is wired.

I guess the salesman didn't figure that in!
I did like the heated seats and grips options.....I gets cold up here in Michigan!

Median-priced, new car in the U.S. is around $30K.

A better way to look at comparing the BMW scoots to cars, with respect to price, would be comparing a BMW C GT600 to a base-model, generously-powered, 3 series, BMW car; and the 650 to a 5 series with an equal power train, since both BMW cars and PTWs are considered premium brands. A quick look online reveals that a 335i starts at $42.8K, and the 535i starts at $53.1.K. I think those are good price points of reference.

Interesting comparison.

So you are saying for people with brand fixation on BMW. The new scoots are actually a very economical form of transportation.

That nearly describes me, I just have a fixation on European made machines. So at the base level I'd compare them to a VW golf or jetta for around $17-18k. Oh or even the Fiat 500 for $15.5k