Modern Vespa

On my second day riding, I dropped my new scooter. I immediately got back up and rode for another 1/2 hour, just to make sure that I "got back on the horse" so to speak.

But since then, I've been extremely scared and I'm having serious second thoughts.

As some of you may know, I live on gravel and that means I'm learning on gravel, probably one of the harder surfaces to learn on. Coming down my driveway hill, I had a hard time turning the corner and I ended up driving it into the small ditch on the far side, with lots of loose gravel and dirt. When I tried to get it out, I lost control and went down. I got a few scrapes and a painful contusion on one leg.

At this point, I am completely torn between never wanting to ride again and wanting to give it a few days to see if I feel differently. After reading on the board, I think I'm trying to advance beyond my skills too fast. I have to take it slower, if I decide to keep riding.

Fortunately, my husband is 100% supportive of whatever I decide, but right now, I'm miserable. Feeling guilty, sorry, stupid and sad. Any words of wisdom, encouragement or comfort would be greatly appreciated...

A drop is something we all go through. Now that you have it out of the way . . .

It sounds like you have a good idea why it happened which suggests you know how to keep it from re-occuring. Slow down in the curves and don't be in a hurry to push your limits. You'll gain confidence from experience and experience from getting on the scoot.

Have you taken the MSF course? They have wonderful tips and a wealth of combined experiences for you to benefit from. It really is the best way to start riding.

Have fun!

Your reactions are normal and most of us have had them. Take time to figure out what went wrong and how to avoid it in the future. Gravel can be tricky, but I am confident you can get through this and again love the scooter experience.

Most of us have fallen and most of us have got up and kept riding.

You learn a lot when you fall. Don't throw that knowledge away.

Riding on gravel takes skill and you must go slow!

Maybe if you have a regular bike, you could ride it up and down the driveway, just to get used to the gravel again.

Please don't be so hard on yourself! Gravel is challenging for everyone, and it's particularly unforgiving if you're a new rider or on an unfamiliar scooter. Many of us have dropped our scoots, so you're not alone.

You probably know what is best for you as far as staying off it for a few days or getting right back on, but if you're feeling uncertain and shaky right now, it might be better to wait until the anxiety subsides and you feel more relaxed.

Here's hoping you'll work through the fear and get back into the joy of riding!

Even good, seasoned riders fear gravel unless they have dual purpose or off road tires. I've been riding legally since 1969 and have never fallen on a street bike but when I see gravel, my butt puckers because I've hit patches of it and have had the wheels slide. I used to ride dirt bikes and motocross many years ago and it's an entirely different feeling when riding on dirt and gravel with the proper tires.
If you're going to continue to ride (and ride on gravel & dirt), I would highly suggest that you put different tires on your scooter that are much more gravel friendly and this will be a tremendous help with your confidence when riding.

I went done on my trip home from the motorcycle shop, with my Father watching me. With several dollars of damage to the bike, my new boots and scraps galore, I too got back up and on the horse. Since then I have been down two more times. 40 years later I am now riding my 2nd Vespa and loving every minute. I get so much pleasure riding it and I am sure you will too.

Take some time to heal and if you can take a safety course. As you practice and your confidence grows, riding will be a pleasure again.

Hello I have a 1/2 mile drive way with rock's & loose stone's &steep hill I try to get home before it get's dark out side. it is tricky riding a machine that is not set up for that surfs . you could take a riding safety course . good luck 8)

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the information and words of encouragement.

I am going to give it a couple days and see how I feel. I do think if I slow down the learning curve, it will be better. I don't know if I can find a safety course here, but I will look.

I do have good tires. It's a Typhoon 125.

Don't worry as everyone said gravel takes practice. I'm with XLR8 on the tires. Put a Heidenau 58 or 62 on the rear and front. Both are either all road or all weather type tires. The pic below is a 58. I forget which size is which for the rear. Much better traction IMHO. I have one (62) on the rear and love it. Only you'll know if you can ride again but take a class and then see how you do. It takes a while to get comfortable. If you can try and ride it somewhere other than your gravel road so you can regain your confidence. Good luck to you and hang in there.

if you are making progress, you shouldn't knock yourself about with an occasional mistake...stuff happens...it's part of the learning process. i know a couple of woodworkers, missing digits...they still make wood product. and good stuff too!

i just put a heidenau on my rear wheel...i'm still trying get used to it. and a new CG on the front...

R which one? I had a 61 and i had to pull it off. It seemed to slippery. Love my 62 tho. 8)

it is a k66 judy...or maybe k666...it's a devil!

Get one of those voodoo peeps to take the curses off and you'll get to like it.

1. I immediately got back up and rode for another 1/2 hour

2. second thoughts.

3. never wanting to ride again if I decide to keep riding.

4. Fortunately, my husband is 100% supportive

5. I'm miserable. Feeling guilty, sorry, stupid and sad.

Take a look at what you said.
You have already canceled out #2 and #3 with #1.
Everyone feels like #5 (no matter if they are willing to admit it or not).
#4 is the best news. Someone close to you is on your side.

Just by admitting it, you are on the way to healing.

Practice makes perfect.
I agree with dcfies, take the MSF course.
We are also on your side.

Sorry to hear about your mishap.

All good advice so far. While gravel is a really difficult surface to learn on, the upshot is that you will master that and everything else will be a cake walk!

Don't give up, hang in there, rest and try again...

Sorry to hear about the fall... ...and glad that you are OK!

A couple of things - there are MSF courses literally every weekend up here in Albuquerque (as I recall, you live south of town...) and I bet there are some semi-regularly in either Las Cruces or ElPaso. Just go to the MSF site online or call around to local motorcycle/scooter shops to get specific contact info. It WILL help - it helped me immensely even though I had two decades of experience riding and racing on two wheels!

Also, it might be worth it (given the circumstances of your driveway) to practice a whole bunch on a mountain bike. If you are not that familiar with two wheeled riding of any sort, being on a scooter might feel a bit overwhelming at first. Try riding up/down your driveway and road on a mountain bike (borrow one or buy a cheapie on Craigslist if you need to) and learn how to lean into a gravel turn, how to brake, how to accelerate, figure out how to sit forward and backward in the seat of the bike, how to 'steer' differently. All of these skills will be useful (not identical - but similar) when you transfer back to riding the scooter.

You will be able to figure it out - just be patient with yourself!

As XLR8 mentioned above - even experienced riders get a bit of a 'pucker' going when on gravel - just make it one of respect and not fear!

All the best,

Desi B.

First take MSF or better course---get legal lic.----try some slow dirt bike riding.

Automatic scooter can be tricky on gravel/mud/snow, etc.....both going up of down

Rear brake can be used as balancing aide! AND head up look where you are going.

I am at over l.5 million miles and certain surfaces still make me think.....Rode one day in B.C. Mud pulling trailer 350km standing on pegs for control using throttle-----scooter you cannot stand on pegs. Last tip, if possible ride on the grass on side of driveway, using feet as outriders until you get experience....but bikes/scooters are deisgned to be ridden feet up.

Sorry for your spill. That sort of thing bruises my ego as much as my body. But in your case as a new rider, it's definitely a learning experience. Think about what you were doing just before you fell. Then find out what you did wrong so you can correct for it next time. Kids jump back on and spill over and over until they figure it out. Adults need to think it through and only make each mistake once. Go slow and easy. And everyone here is right, riding on gravel is trickier than riding on pavement. But it will sharpen your skills. Good luck and let us know if we can help!

I'm with others. The MSF course is a great confidence builder and the right way to start skill building for the new rider. And, yes, gravel can be a son-of-a-gun - especially for the inexperienced rider. I really wouldn't suggest you start out your practice riding on gravel. I understand that is a consequence of where you live, but perhaps you can keep your scooter at a friend's house while you can some experience and confidence.

I'll add my 2 cents worth. Stay away from the front brake on loose gravel. It will cause your front tire to wash out if you aren't careful. Slide forward on the seat to keep more weight on your front tire while turning in loose gravel. This will help you track better. Don't give up. Hang in there and don't get too discouraged.

Hey four
As you know i dont have a scooter yet hopefully next spring i will but i have has experience with wiping out in bermuda on mopeds lol a little to much experience to be honest once because i was drinking to much and about three other times due to rain speed and being a dumb teenager at the time.
but honestly falling i think is a very good thing esp ifyou can get back and learn from the experience. mopeds scooters all the others falling and getting back up is a part of it. they can be dangerous in a car its dangerous too but you have a nice comfy seat and four walls around you.
i dont think you can be a good rider if you dont fall a few times it teaches you what your stregths and most importantly your limits hang in there you will just fine. o and watch those wet roads too.

regards
Ashley

I really have to offer an opposite point of view. I have been riding for quite a while and I am a skillful rider by most measures. I certainly didn't learn how to ride well by falling, and I would never advise someone else to approach riding in that way. There are some riders who do not develop the necessary basic skills and others who pick up a number of bad habits along the way. Neither one is a good thing.

I agree that you have gotten good advice here and I could not add much more.

From what I understand, though, your nemesis appears to be that gravel driveway, and from what I remember, the MSF course will not really address this particular problem. An offroad course might be more targeted.

I also looked at images of Thyphoon 125 tires. They show tread designs all over the map. So, "good tires" can mean lots of rubber, or it can mean the right tread design for gravel (knobby). I think XLR8 gave you excellent advice for your particular situation.

Good luck with your future riding!

Sorry to hear about your mishap. While I agree that falling is not necessary for learning, a early minor mishap does tend to concentrate the mind and can lead to really focusing on developing better riding skills. At least that's how it went for me after I went down my first full day of riding.

In addition to the MSF course, I highly recommend reading Proficient Motorcycling by David Hough.

And I think you now have a name for the turn at the and of your driveway: The Learning Curve!

I don't think I would ride much of anything with 2 wheels on gravel. It's one thing to have to ease over a construction site for a few feet, but if you have a lot of gravel roads, that's a problem, especially if it is loose gravel like you mentioned or the road slants. Gravel with bigger rocks mixed in is even worse. Perhaps the most dangerous thing is where there is gravel or rocks on top of a hard asphalt surface or where gravel has accumulated on curves. Even experienced riders have trouble with gravel and rocks.

I really dont think the best way to learn that falling all the time is the best way to learn but learning from your falls can safe your life cause if you have any braans in your head you learn from your mistakes. there may be time in your riding career when learning how to deal with falling can save your life esp when you are really on the road dealing with drivers. and knowing how easy it is to fall makes quick stops gravellly or wet roads safer if you have been through what can happen

Ashley

Only by regular riding will you gain confidence. That includes understanding the feel of the scooter and that is particularly unique with Vespas. I had ridden a Honda for a couple of years and switched to a GTS a few weeks ago. I was tentative for a week or two trying to understand the feedback from the bike, especially on turns.
In time, you learn where the limit of grip is and how conditions and surfaces affect it. You will feel when the tyres start to loose grip and instinctively react, thus avoiding spills in the future.

Learning to ride and gravel is a poor combination. I would advocate getting plenty of road mileage under your belt especially in changeable conditions.

Gravel can be tricky sometimes.
I had a friend who was a MX racer, he was always smiling when I mentioned riding my road bike on the gravel and how slippery it was, and how I had to focus. He would offer advice such as weight distribution, moving around on the seat, putting weight on the pegs, etc, told me I was doing it all wrong.
Then one day he bought a GSXR750 road bike, after riding MX bikes offroad for 20 years since he was only 5 yrs old. He rode it 50m down a gravel road and fell off at 80kph. He got up, started riding back to the bitumen and fell off before he reached the tar. Two drops in less than 100m, and he was a MX rider remember. After that he came to me for advice.

Gravel needs gradual movements and even weight distribution when riding using road tyres, on our ball-bearing gravel I have locally it is a lot like riding on slippery wet red clay mud or even snow/ice roads (ridden on all of them). For me I find what can help, especially with slow speed movements under 25-30mph or when approaching and setting up for a corner, is to slowly roll off the throttle (not just let it go), and at the same time slowly apply a little back brake at the same time. Applying a small amount of throttle and AT THE SAME TIME a small amount of rear brake will stabilise the scoot/bike and help keep it upright. I'm not sure of the physics involved (but I can make a good guess........), but don't care, it works on everything from my 750lb 1200cc Vmax to my 250lb 125cc Sportcity.

The other thing that may help is to brace yourself slightly with your feet against the front of the footwell and the seat. It can sometimes serve to stop a sudden weight movement of YOU on top of the scoot. The slightest inch-wide movement of your bum or shoulder will move these little scoots, so if you can sorta sit still as much as you can, it will keep weight shifting to a minimum. Just remember though that loose and relaxed has control, tight and stressed will not.

Just remember you will still need to use the front brake to slow down, same as on bitumen. On the gravel however, that too needs gentle application, not a fistful. The rear brake/small throttle is just for stability at steady/slow speeds, not for slowing down.

Please note this is JUST for riding gravel on road tyres. MX with knobbies is completely different, as is powersliding on bitumen with superbikes. Gravel on road tyres is a different world, but with a bit of practise on the above points you will find a comfortable way to ride through it that suits you.

Don't be frightened.......

It's good to be scared as it makes you more careful..
So
Sorry to hear you fell... It hurts doesn't it, and we've all done it
Take things nice and slowly and you'll be right as rain in no time
Don't give up!

I feel for you, but don't give up. Falling is the pits. Gravel is one of the toughest conditions to ride on. The best thing to do when you feel the scooter beginning to slide is not to panic (yeah,,, I know, but try not to). The rear brake and throttle are your best counter measure, not to mention keeping your wits about you. The rule with loose surface is take it slow, no sudden decceleration or acceleration and no braking with the front brake. If you begin to slide let off gently on your throttle and allow the scooter to roll until you gain control. Once you have control slowly throttle up to a safe speed. Also, turns should be taken close to an upright position as possible. If others are behind you and you feel pressure to maintain a speed you are not comfortable with, move over to the side and let them pass.

Thank you all so much! This is a great community!

I am feeling much better. All the advice here is great and I will be putting it to good use. Thanks again!

I'm not sure of the size of your tires but I know that Heidenau (and probably other tire manufacturers) make dual purpose tires that would make riding on gravel much less iffy.

There are two types of riders, those that have fallen and those who will.

I have barely any experience riding on gravel but common sense tells me you certainly shouldn't be riding a scooter on gravel, especially if learning. IMO gravel is the hardest place to ride/learn without falling. Not meaning to be a prick but I just find it hard myself to ride on gravel.

Seasoned riders can drop it on gravel. Shake it off and get on some pavement. It sounds like you love riding so don't let this get you down. Lick your wounds and learn from the experience.

I suggest leaving the scooter somewhere where you can ride without having to negotiate the gravel for a few days or even weeks. Get used to riding on asphalt, giving you some easy experience. Then tackle the gravel after gaining confidence.

You have identified your problem and that is an important first step to not doing it again. I had gone down twice on my first motorcycle and that taught me a lot. I know exactly what I did wrong and I make sure I don't ever do those things again.

You are tentative right now and that's a good thing. Take your time and definitely find a safety course. Even if you have to ride a distance, do it. Reading Hough's Proficient Motorcycling is a great thing until you can take the course.

I'm a bit confused on your road surface situation. I gather that you have a few miles of gravel roads near your house. Appropriate tires for those conditions should help, but go very slow while on the stones. Especially on turns. Riding is fun, especially on a scooter. If you do really like it, give it time.

^^^^Typhoons come with knobbys. They may suck, but they look the part.

You stated next time you have to take it slower. How fast we're you going?

I have been riding a long time, I have never fallen or dropped my bike, or scooter, but when I see gravel, I go real slow, almost walking speed, as I get the feel for the gravel, I will go a little faster. I do the same thing when I see sand on a paved road rounding a corner. No traction. I do not even ride in the rain, too spooky for me.