@old_as_dirt avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22418
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@old_as_dirt avatar
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22418
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
UTC quote
I stand by what I said when you first stated in the other thread that you wanted a scooter. Get a dirt bike and learn to ride in the areas around your house since you live in the country. A small honda like a CRF 80 or 100 would do fine. this will help you in the mechanics of riding in loose terrain. You can graduate up to the scooter after your very comfortable riding the Honda.
@scooter_cruiser avatar
UTC

Hooked
bv 500
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Location: Chicagoland
 
Hooked
@scooter_cruiser avatar
bv 500
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Location: Chicagoland
UTC quote
Wow. Gravel is probably one of the most difficult and unpredictable surfaces to deal with at any skill level.

You have really, in my humble opinion, been given some very sound advice by many people ahead of me. After words of encouragement to not give up your ambition to ride, the best advice I can offer you is to go back and re-read closely a number of these posts. You'll know 'em when ya see 'em. Study what they are telling you - some really good stuff here specific to your situation.

And don't throw in the towel too soon!!
@tomjasz avatar
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Grievance Farmer
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Grievance Farmer
@tomjasz avatar
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UTC quote
Looking backon the advise you were offered in your first thread, I think you just gotto anxious. Slow down get some off gravel experience. I'd bet you ended up dumping where you were looking, and not looking where you wantedto go. Relax step back and start over. You'll be fine. Wait until you are physically healed completely.
@vegasgeorge avatar
UTC

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Homophobic Fuckwit
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@vegasgeorge avatar
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UTC quote
+1 on Hachi's advice to stay off the front brake. You can slide to a stop safely on gravel using the rear brake only. Try using some front brake, and you're courting disaster every time. Loose gravel over a hard surface is like riding in a puddle of ball bearings. Deep gravel, or gravel over soft dirt is like plowing through sand or snow. In any event, gravel is always dangerous and not to be ridden through unless necessary, and then very slowly and cautiously.
@nofretsaboutit avatar
UTC

Hooked
2010 Vespa LX150
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Posts: 199
Location: Freeport, Texas
 
Hooked
@nofretsaboutit avatar
2010 Vespa LX150
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Location: Freeport, Texas
UTC quote
I can't add to all the great advice already given, but just so you know, you are not the only one who's had misgivings. I've dropped my scooter twice in my own front yard. Made me wonder what I was doing with a scooter for the first time at the age of 57. But little by little I've gained confidence, and I stay within my skill level, which is still not advanced. But I do scoot around town now, and have had no mishaps in real world riding. I do a little more each week I ride, and feel better about my ability all the time. Hang in there, and don't give up! It's so worth it.
@menhir avatar
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Moderator
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@menhir avatar
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UTC quote
Don't get scared.

Get mad!

Are you going to let some little stupid brainless rocks stop you from riding your scooter?

(Repeat after me...)

HELL NO!

Now get out there and run the little bastards over.

That'll teach 'em.

Gravel is a challenge. After almost 10 years in the saddle, riding in any kind of loose surface is still a white-knuckle event for me. It's not just gravel driveways. You'll find similar surfaces when you pull over on roadsides, from runoff from construction sites and after heavy rains, etc.. My personal favorite is when I'm fully loaded with camping gear and my tent site is 1/2 mile down a 6" deep gravel road...downhill. Bleh emoticon

What you got was an early riding lesson at a small, albeit scary, price. Especially for a new rider. In retrospect, you may find yourself fortunate that this happened now instead of being a bigger and more expensive surprise later...

In my early riding days I was zipping around a corner at night and encountered a small patch of gravel in the road.
I made the turn, but the butt half of the scooter didn't. I didn't drop it, but my leg hurt for days and a group of teens standing at the corner applauded my Hollywood antics. I'm glad I provided them with some amusement for their evening.

You better believe I've kept my eyes open for it, and I've learned to deal with gravel ever since...Which is a good thing.
@kdude avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
BV 400 (21) , BV 350 (16) SOLD :( , Sprint 150 2015(SOLD), Liberty S150 2018
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Ossessionato
@kdude avatar
BV 400 (21) , BV 350 (16) SOLD :( , Sprint 150 2015(SOLD), Liberty S150 2018
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Location: Florida
UTC quote
Note to reader ... I didn't read the other threads however been there and done that ...


If your not comfortable take a few scooter riding lessons...

Having said that you went through the worse of learning ..

Keep riding .. and seriously find someone who has extensive riding knowledge of multiple road conditions and embrace the learning experience .... priceless !

Now go out there and ride !
@knight_train avatar
UTC

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2017 BMW R1200GS and 2010 Vespa GTS 250 (shared)
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Ossessionato
@knight_train avatar
2017 BMW R1200GS and 2010 Vespa GTS 250 (shared)
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Location: San Diego
UTC quote
Some riders fall, drop their bikes or have some other two wheeled near death experience and others don't. I've dropped my scooter and my motorcycle. I've taken an MSF course as well as an "enforcement riding" motorcycle course to learn low speed maneuvering. Each time I dropped my bike, it was for the same exact stupid reason. Much like the football receiver who drops the easy touchdown pass, I lost focus on what I was doing in the exact moment because I was thinking about the next thing.

No course that I have taken has dealt with soft surfaces except to remind riders that they are dangerous.

Gravel or other soft packed surfaces are simply dangerous because it makes things unpredictable. Whenever one is riding in an unfamiliar environment, slow is better.

Take a riding course if you can find one. Read books like Proficient Motorcycling. Practice in a parking lot. All good suggestions.

Keep your mind in the moment and your eye on the ball. You'll be fine.
@old_as_dirt avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22418
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@old_as_dirt avatar
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22418
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
UTC quote
look at it this way also.

have you ever been in a car accident? Did you stop driving a car after that?
@megatitaniumman avatar
UTC

Hooked
Vespa ET4 150, Ebony.
Joined: UTC
Posts: 368
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
 
Hooked
@megatitaniumman avatar
Vespa ET4 150, Ebony.
Joined: UTC
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Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
UTC quote
I grew up riding dirt bike so a spill is nothing to worry about, after you've had a few it wont bother you much.
I am recovering from a Big Crash where I low sided my motorcycle and broke my leg, But the impact on that threw me up and onto the bike again. So I decided to ride to the hospital seeing as my foot was pointing almost straight behind me (Don't do this!)
I blacked out after a km or so and left the road and hit a tree at 80kmh.
I broke my femur left leg, tibia & fibula both legs, tore my spleen & kidney, collapsed a lung and broke the top jaw off my skull.
I tell you this so you'll believe I can understand your feeling a little trepidatious about getting back on your scoot, I am not the daredevil I once was and will never be again, as it turns out I am not invincible as I once thought I was.

So just take it easy, if your worried just slow down a little, and if you need to, pull over and just breathe.
Read up on "target fixation" as a lot of riders do it and with practice it will help to avoid future problems.
Mega.
@voodooaddict avatar
UTC

Hooked
Gearing up for 2013 GTS 300 Super
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Posts: 152
Location: Chicagoland (Western Burbs)
 
Hooked
@voodooaddict avatar
Gearing up for 2013 GTS 300 Super
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Location: Chicagoland (Western Burbs)
UTC quote
judy wrote:
Laughing emoticon Get one of those voodoo peeps to take the curses off and you'll get to like it.
**waves hands back and forth while mumbling incoherently**

That help?
UTC

Hooked
BV 350
Joined: UTC
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Location: NY
 
Hooked
BV 350
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Location: NY
UTC quote
The most important thing to learn from a fall is knowing why or how you fell. That way you wont repeat the same mistake and you can apply that newly learned skill in your future riding.
Take it a learning lesson and not as "This is a sign to stop riding". Basically you now know that gravel isnt the most friendly surface and you have learned to look for it to avoid it or ride accordingly through it.

I have fallen many times (4 times on the street and many times on a race track) and luckily none have been serious. The first thing that comes to my mind before anything after a fall (besides the bike, LOL) is why and how I fell. I will admit that I force myself to get back on the bike immediately and I too am scared but with time it goes away and what remains is the awareness that if I do what I did that caused the previous fall I will fall again, in other words I learned.
So get ur arse back on that scooter and dont repeat the same mistake. Your on gavel, Gravel= No traction, No traction= slide, and slide can = fall. From reading ur post it seems that you went wide in the turn ended up on the ditch, then tried to get out of it and fell. Most likely you went wide because you were carrying too much speed at the entry of the corner, you got nervous due to lack of traction and went wide and lost it exiting to ditch, correct? Think ahead now, when you see that gravel break early and softly, squeeze the brake, DONT GRAB IT (there is a difference) and take that turn slow, with time and practice you will start braking later and taking that turn faster, BUT remember you are still on gravel, and gravel = ........ If you feel that you are going wide again straighten the bike up and brake SOFTLY "squeeze" the brake. Your better off being stopped in the middle of ur driveway then on the floor hurt, dont force it. Tires have more traction when the bike is straight rather then leaned, more lean less tire contact patch to the road, less lean (straight bike) more tire contact patch to the road which equals more traction and traction also make the bike stop faster since you can brake harder and that would of prevented you going into that ditch.
Also wear gear, get a good jacket, pants and gloves. I think I read somewhere that you are a female,. There is this brand of woman's gear that pretty cool and you dont look like ur a hardcore race chick.
http://www.scooter-girls.com/ some Rev'it products are also nice. Look them up.
You would be a lot less scared if ur fall didnt hurt as much, you feel protected.
Falls hurt less with gear, gloves are very important since its what you put down first most of the time, so get some good ones.
Best of luck
⚠️ Last edited by krisnet55 on UTC; edited 1 time
@tb avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Vespa 2005 GT200 & Honda Metro
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Posts: 3517
Location: Honolulu
 
Ossessionato
@tb avatar
Vespa 2005 GT200 & Honda Metro
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3517
Location: Honolulu
UTC quote
Takes time for your subconcious to get over it...
I am glad to hear that you were not seriously hurt.

I don't like gravel myself and am very cognizant when around these "asphalt marbles". There has been some good one's on this posted. There is one I'd like to pass on, when you stop and plant your foot or pushing off on a surface that may have gravel...I find this quite distressing!

There is one bit of non-riding advice I want to share that I learned from taking a class on stress management that may help you get over this incident. Whenever you have an stressful incident occur (i.e. falling, close encounter on road, an argument with loved one, etc) that causes any distress, the initial bad feelings hit you right away. In this concious state you can speak to someone or self-help yourself to put your concious mind back on and even keel.

However, your subconcious mind is still afftected and you may still "feel" the effect of this event for several days or even a week or two. It can pop up for no reason and you may feel a little "blue". Just be aware and understand that this does happen...don't fight it...acknowledge and don't dwell on it...think of some good thougths and it will pass. One of the best "medicine" is laughing and sometimes just enjoying the company of my pets (endorphine release).

Hope this helps!
OP
@fouriscompany avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
Typhoon 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 58
Location: SouthWest US
 
Enthusiast
@fouriscompany avatar
Typhoon 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 58
Location: SouthWest US
UTC quote
I'm reading and taking in EVERY word! I appreciate it so much, you have no idea!

I've been looking for a motorcycle course here in southern New Mexico and haven't found one. Yet...

Thanks so much to you all!
@judy avatar
UTC

World Traveler
2007 LX150 Daring Plum Leonardo Da Vespa
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World Traveler
@judy avatar
2007 LX150 Daring Plum Leonardo Da Vespa
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UTC quote
VOODOO i hope so. 8) Laughing emoticon Your rock.
@stickyfrog avatar
UTC

Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
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Location: Nashville, Indiana
 
Moderatus Rana
@stickyfrog avatar
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
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@tb avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Vespa 2005 GT200 & Honda Metro
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Posts: 3517
Location: Honolulu
 
Ossessionato
@tb avatar
Vespa 2005 GT200 & Honda Metro
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3517
Location: Honolulu
UTC quote
Some advice (practice) that helped my wife....
...and me

1. Turn your head and look into the turn...do not just use your eyes. Turning your head initiates a slight turn of your shoulders...arms...and everything follows.

2. Don't look down...you'll end up where you're looking! "Target Fixation".

3. If you are making a sharp turn from a standing stop...turn handle bars slightly...then turn your head looking into turn and you can make that 90 degree turn. This is how she would sometimes accomplish making a "U" turn...she'd pull over and then make a 90 degree reposition duckwalk and then a 90 degree turn. She would practice this at a vacant parking lot using traffic cones. She was amazed how tight of a turn should could make by simply using this technique. Now she's more apt to simply make a decent U maneuver.

4. If you're in a situation where things are getting too much to handle and you can pull over and let things settle down...go ahead and pull over and wait until things settle down.

5. Please make an effort to understand "counter steering"....there's been a lot posted on this subject. Basically you are going into a gradual sweeping turn...let's say right...you lean towards your right...looking into the turn keeping your eyes level to the horizon and at the same time you are "pushing" your handle bar with your left hand as you continue to keep your throttle open. Hence, it's called counter steering, however I'd rather use "counter-push steering". Perhaps I'm not explaining it very well. But, this will be covered in your course...or should be.

Good Luck!
@arno1 avatar
UTC

Oberlehrerhaft
GTS 250 w/ 43,000 mi
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Posts: 1462
Location: Deceased, (MV member 2006 - 2014).
 
Oberlehrerhaft
@arno1 avatar
GTS 250 w/ 43,000 mi
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Posts: 1462
Location: Deceased, (MV member 2006 - 2014).
UTC quote
TB wrote:
..
5.... "counter steering"....let's say right...you lean towards your right...looking into the turn keeping your eyes level to the horizon and at the same time you are "pushing" your handle bar with your LEFT hand as you continue to keep your throttle open.
I think that is what you meant: push with the right hand to make a right hand turn.

Maybe that is why it is called a right hand turn?
@tb avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Vespa 2005 GT200 & Honda Metro
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Location: Honolulu
 
Ossessionato
@tb avatar
Vespa 2005 GT200 & Honda Metro
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Location: Honolulu
UTC quote
Arno1 wrote:
TB wrote:
..
5.... "counter steering"....let's say right...you lean towards your right...looking into the turn keeping your eyes level to the horizon and at the same time you are "pushing" your handle bar with your LEFT hand as you continue to keep your throttle open.
I think that is what you meant: push with the right hand to make a right hand turn.

Maybe that is why it is called a right hand turn?
If anything there is a slight pull with right as I'm pushing the left handle forward and as I continue to provide throttle I keep myself upright. Unless I'm not explaining it properly.
@arno1 avatar
UTC

Oberlehrerhaft
GTS 250 w/ 43,000 mi
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Posts: 1462
Location: Deceased, (MV member 2006 - 2014).
 
Oberlehrerhaft
@arno1 avatar
GTS 250 w/ 43,000 mi
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Posts: 1462
Location: Deceased, (MV member 2006 - 2014).
UTC quote
TB wrote:
Arno1 wrote:
TB wrote:
..
5.... "counter steering"....let's say right...you lean towards your right...looking into the turn keeping your eyes level to the horizon and at the same time you are "pushing" your handle bar with your LEFT hand as you continue to keep your throttle open.
I think that is what you meant: push with the right hand to make a right hand turn.

Maybe that is why it is called a right hand turn?
If anything there is a slight pull with right as I'm pushing the left handle forward and as I continue to provide throttle I keep myself upright. Unless I'm not explaining it properly.
I thought you were talking 'counter steering'. If you are already in the lean and turning, then your left push is correct to decrease the radius.
@karlu avatar
UTC

Hooked
'12 Kymco People GTi300, '06 Yamaha Morphous,'10 Vespa GTS300s
Joined: UTC
Posts: 380
Location: las cruces, nm
 
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@karlu avatar
'12 Kymco People GTi300, '06 Yamaha Morphous,'10 Vespa GTS300s
Joined: UTC
Posts: 380
Location: las cruces, nm
UTC quote
Hi Four
What town do you live in? I'm in Las Cruces, NM. There has been an MSF course or two here, but as I understand it, the only one right now is at Barnett Harley Davidson. If there is a college near you they often have MSF courses.

But I do agree with those who are telling you not to be too hard on yourself...I've been riding scooters for twelve years, and never on gravel unless by accident!

And I noticed that one even said to maybe ride on the grass beside your driveway!...they evidently haven't spent much time in southern NM! Lol

Good luck with your scootering!

Karlu
Las cruces, NM
@tb avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Vespa 2005 GT200 & Honda Metro
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3517
Location: Honolulu
 
Ossessionato
@tb avatar
Vespa 2005 GT200 & Honda Metro
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3517
Location: Honolulu
UTC quote
My apologies...I messed up explaing counter-push steering...
Arno1 wrote:
TB wrote:
Arno1 wrote:
TB wrote:
..
5.... "counter steering"....let's say right...you lean towards your right...looking into the turn keeping your eyes level to the horizon and at the same time you are "pushing" your handle bar with your LEFT hand as you continue to keep your throttle open.
I think that is what you meant: push with the right hand to make a right hand turn.

Maybe that is why it is called a right hand turn?
If anything there is a slight pull with right as I'm pushing the left handle forward and as I continue to provide throttle I keep myself upright. Unless I'm not explaining it properly.
I thought you were talking 'counter steering'. If you are already in the lean and turning, then your left push is correct to decrease the radius.
My apologies to all who read this post! Arno1...thanks for correcting me...

Lean right...push right handle.

Lean left...push right handle.

OP
@fouriscompany avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
Typhoon 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 58
Location: SouthWest US
 
Enthusiast
@fouriscompany avatar
Typhoon 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 58
Location: SouthWest US
UTC quote
Re: Hi Four
karlu wrote:
What town do you live in?
I'm in Silver and I did find the Barnett Harley Davidson course in LC. Thanks.
Quote:
And I noticed that one even said to maybe ride on the grass beside your driveway!...they evidently haven't spent much time in southern NM! Lol
LOL!
@primordialdancer avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Temporarily Scooterless... :(
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2116
Location: Albuquerque, NM
 
Ossessionato
@primordialdancer avatar
Temporarily Scooterless... :(
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2116
Location: Albuquerque, NM
UTC quote
Great riding in Silver City...! (I did the Tour of the Gila on my bicycle for years). Those should be some amazing scootering roads I would think.

Check out NM Tech in Socorro too - I know they have had courses in the past as well...

Not to rehash stuff - but you have decades worth of rider's experiences offered to you in this thread. I am sure you will find the advice that fits your needs and abilities the best in the midst of it.

All the best,

Desi B.
@tomjasz avatar
UTC

Grievance Farmer
Joined: UTC
Posts: 15921
 
Grievance Farmer
@tomjasz avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 15921
UTC quote
Silver City? Home of long lost friend Marty Madrid!
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