Modern Vespa

based on posts from others I have been bugging my local Piaggio dealer about getting an ECU update. The first person I talked to said "huh? what's that?". The second person I spoke to said "I have not heard of any". Just recently received an email from the Service Manager This was in response to:
When I hear more I will post again.

And they wonder why their sales numbers are low...
The dealers that really know anything about these scoots are few and far between.
I say that because there are service bulletins that clearly state the update is available. They don't need to wait for the damned tool to know that...

There is dealer well known for selling Vespas. Very well respected with impecable service. I bought my 2012 GTS there. While there I noted the three MP 3s sitting out front. I was told this; "These are 2009s. We have them, but honestly don't really reccommend them. Only if people insist on them. They are a nightmare to work on, have multiple steering problems and overall the mechanics hate them. They are costly to fix, overly complex and needless to say the customer get upset at the repair cost. Stay away". I thought to myself. And they want to sell these things??????
He added, "there are always left over. These are 2009s".

What is the point? MP3s take a real hit on resale. Apparently the dealers or this one in particular certainly does not care if he sells any or not and Piaggio won't send more until the left overs are gone. I'm new to this scooter thing. Not to motorcycles or riding. I do know this, US consumers are not like Europeans. What works in Europe or Japan may fall flat here. Vepsa is a classic, an icon like HD. Everyone knows a Vespa, it means scooter. Like Xerox means copy, even if done on a Cannon machine. Coke means soft drink. People in the US like that iconic image. Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki built technologically advanced and powerful scooters. Heavy, but sound. BMW and Kymco seem to have found love. But to tell you the truth, the average American can't tell one from the other. But they know what is Vespa looks like and have a story about one. Get bored with your Vespa. It will be gone in heart beat if priced properly and I don't mean discounted.

MP3s seem to to be a bit over the top for American taste. Don't hold your breath for any big change. We are locked into a paradigm of tradition and classic perspective. My impression is you are correct, they don't care.

Well said perfesser!

"MP3s seem to to be a bit over the top for American taste"

Gonna have to disagree with you on that. It's Piaggio's lack of marketing period. I can't count on how many times while touring the US that when I've stopped that people have come over and talked to me about my new "Spyder" and not once have I heard one thing bad about it. The line between motorcycle and scooter is starting to get blurry.

If Piaggio had any brains they should get together with Fiat and have super dealerships where you could go to a dealer and see all things Italian. One dealer that sells Piaggio, Vespa, Aprillia, Ducati, and Fiat. Great support across the country and those brands, and they really go after different markets so it would be a win for all.


Just my hopeful, dreaming 2 cents,
Tross

I certainly respect the fact you own one and I don't. So, your perspective is far better than mine on that. MP3 owners seem to like their scooters. They seem to be older so, may appreciate the more complex technology. And three wheels. CanAm Trikes? But, when 2009s are sitting in a showroom and are passed over by buyers over and over in favor of something else you have to wonder. Ask the people who talk to you about your MP3; are you willing to buy one?

I've managed several dealerships and the consumer always votes with their dollar. HD has never made and will never make the money on the V-Rod they make on the air-cooled motors. BMW in-line motors sell far less than the boxer. Americans are traditionalist and iconic in many ways when it come to buying two wheel products products. Witness the Triumph Bonneville, their best seller.

Road side interest may or may not result in a purchase. For a product to be successful it must have all of the things we assume, technology to make it work, dealer service, marketing, accesories to add on and some color variety. But above all in two wheel vehicles they must be cool. COOL! Define cool. Only know it when I see it. Not nerdy, not over sophisticated, but COOL. HD, Triumph, MotoGuzzi, Ducati certainly know this and so does Vespa. They are cool. How does Piaggio (marketing) make an MP3 cool? When they do, they will sell. I sincerely hope it happens. Good for every body.

Buy the way, the Fiat 500 is sales flop in America. Even the "Italian" showroom decor did not move Americans. It is way off from what Fiat had hoped for. The 500 is not yet cool. Just economical.

The reason that the dealer has leftovers is that they go out of their way to not sell them. MP3s require a few specialized tools, but once you have them, they're about the same as any other plastic scooter to work on, which is to say ten times more difficult than a standard motorcycle. That baffles me that a dealer would say that to a customer. My dealer is straight forward and will tell you the pros and cons for each model and whether she thinks a particular model is or isn't for you. She won't stock a scooter that she specifically steers people away from. That's just dumb!

The MP3 isn't a big seller because it isn't marketed. No one knows what it is but I often get asked about it. I've probably converted a few people by sending them to Scoot Richmond, where during the warmer months they have real difficulty keeping MP3s in stock. They're also quite happy to service them.

The Fiats are nice little cars, but they're asking way too much for an economy car. Flashy commercials don't do anything for me, but at least I know what a Fiat 500 is (I'm looking at you, Piaggio).

I think right now the one to watch is BMW with their new line of scooters. Looks like they are doing things right, just enough advertising, a lot of pre hype and pre planning (dealers trained, service intervals priced out for the customer to see, etc). They seem to realize that it's just one step to get the customer on the scooter, make them happy and when it's time to upgrade they are there with their line of products (car, or motorcycle).

Look at the reviews, everyone seems to be happy so far.

Cheers,
Tross

PS Won't go near one till rjeffb get's around to making some foot peg brackets for them

I think you are right. BMW is not foolish. They see or have the perception of a expanding market, and place for them in this market. They have a solid and brand and know customer service. The fact that it a cooperative agreement with Kymco would only trouble a BMW purist. I hope they do well. Yes, I do watch them.

I agree with you that the dealer matters. A lot! He (my local) may have had to take a few MP3s to get more Vespas. The Vespa sell like crazy in here California. All of the local dealers clearly like their Vespa franchise. Heck, they even steer you away from Stellas.

This left coast is very brand aware.

I found the marketing very interesting. In Europe the BV350 is a hands down winner. Slow here. We are different.

You make good points.

Help! My thread has been hijacked !

Not hi jacked , just evolved. So lets go back:

Sounds like your dealer is going to get the new PADS system. Which is a lot cheaper than the old system(Navagator). You use your (shops) computer and attach a USB cable attachment to your scooter. Does the updates and diagnostics. The best part is the dealer can give you a print out of what's been updated. So be sure to ask for that print out.

Honestly, if your dealer doesn't know about updates ask around the board for some dealers in your area which are more in tune to working on MP3's.

Cheers,
Tross

I stopped by the dealer this afternoon and was told that they had received the "new tool" the previous day and that the service techs had been drooling all over it. Sounds like they need to get out more. Heard they they had "hooked it up to a computer and downloaded some updates" so it does sound like the PADS system. Good call Tross.

Next step is to schedule service and see what happens.

More to follow.

From "old as Dirt"

yes pads is the new diagnostic tool. the new map number is 1233GP40 for the 500's , don't know what it is for the 400's

my current map number is 1232GP29.

The dealer can also give you a print out of the whole shebang when completed.

That's from an april post, so hopefully that's the latest update. If yours comes back with a higher number let us know.

Cheers,
Tross

There is some marketing for the MP3. I researched and found Piaggio has spent quite a lot on it.

They tend to think the money spent on Vespa in the US and the women's market in particular will yeld more results.


Piaggio MP3: Sliding

http://www.ibelieveinadv.com/2012/01/piaggio-mp3-sliding/


"You're safe as long as you're on it."

Advertising Agency: Adler Chomsky Grey, Tel Aviv, Israel
Executive Creative Director: Tal Riven
Creative Director: Moti Rubinstein
Copywriter: Matanya Tal
Art Director: Shlomi Yerushalmi
Photographer: Yaron Izhakov
Account Manager: Dani Brande
Account Executive: Moran Gera

Yeah but they're talking about the lack of North American marketing for the MP3. We know they have ads elsewhere.

And that ad campaign is definitely not for the US, since it shows a model the US has never gotten.

Incidentally, looks like Nike slipped them a few bucks on the sly there...

Service scheduled for Dec 8th. The guy I talked to seemed to want to talk me out of it ("why do it if you are not experiencing problems?") but also made it clear he didn't know MP3s himself. Sounded like a BMW tech.

True it is not US. I looked at the corporate marketing strategies that are posted on line from Piaggio. You can find them under a simple search of Piaggio Marketing Strategy. I did not get the impression they are real confident with the US market except for Vespa (scooters). They still have Aprilla and Moto Guzzi motorcycles to worry with. Car sales in Italy are horrible. Fiat 's Chrysler Division made 4 billion dollars last year. The strongest of any US car brand four years in a row. And it offset the 900 million loss for Fiat. So, I'd hope scooters are selling there if cars are not. I guess I'm still not convinced that Americans want MP3s, even if a few PDs are using them for traffic and parking management. If I were not confident would I advertise? But, how could I expect dfferent results If I did not? Having managed dealerships, I can tell you the Japanese run focus groups to determine what products to bring into the US. Kawasaki has several models that won't ever see the US. The W800 is an example. It does fine elsewhere. Honda will not import a model for less than 10,000 projected sales.
None of this matters at all to Vespa riders. We are covered. A lot of left over 2009 MP3s would worry me about the future of my rde. However, parts will always be there, slow to get maybe, but there. Federal law requires a ten year supply requirement. So, suport is not cheap if you warehouse and stock.

Enough of this. Time to ride. Amerivespa will be in San Diego next year. Yes!!!

So I take my 500 in for an 'annual' because it is new to me but a 2008 model and I am only sure about the oil being changed. It was also an opportunity to get the ECU update. I had heard that the shop had recently received the new updater tool so figured I was all set.

I was wrong.

I dropped the scoot off at 9:30 on Saturday and they said it would be done around lunchtime. My wife had followed me so that gave us an opportunity to do some shopping while they worked on the scoot. I told them there was no big hurry. About 2:30pm I decided to call and check. I was told that it wasn't listed as 'done' yet but my service rep was talking to someone at the moment. I said that he could just call me when it was done. About 3pm he called to tell me they were 'mostly all done' except for the ECU update. Turns out mine was the first bike they had used the new tool on and they were having some trouble. Maybe I could leave the bike with them? Well that wasn't going to work out well because they are closed Sunday and Monday and are only open from 9:30 until 5pm on days they are open and I have to work too. They said they would try for a couple of more hours. At 4:45pm I called them and tell them to get my scoot ready for me to pick up. No, I was not going to spend $50 to have it 'towed' to my house. No, they could use an MP3 off the showroom floor to learn how to use the tool. At 5pm I showed up and asked for my scoot. Actually saw it head out for the safety/check ride as I was parking. No, I was not going to leave it with them for a few more days. I told them they could let me know when they figured out how to use their tools and then maybe I would come back.

They were pleasant enough through the whole thing but it appears they do NOT know what they are doing with the tool. Actually it sounds like they didn't figure out how to get out through their firewall to connect to Piaggio so it really was an IT problem. Still you think they would have figured that out already.

When they call I'll probably take my bike over there some day at lunch and hover while they try again. I'm only considering that because they say they will not charge me for it due the inconvenience.

Ok, they most likely have a Network Engineer configure the Firewall and you can't figure out why a motorcycle tech can get a Firewall change done?
They need to add exceptions and you need someone that knows how to configure the FW, not a motorcycle tech.
Bet they get it fixed during the week when they have tech support for the network

I'm in IT so I understand the problem. Just disappointed that they clearly have never tried this before.

I spoke to the service rep yesterday. He said they had figured out the firewall issue but wanted to test things on an MP3 from their showroom before they try it on mine - which is what I suggested on Saturday when they told me they were having trouble.

You might want to let them play around with it first. I was the test scoot for my dealer and I knew that going in. It didn't go so well, I got a call last week telling me they fried the ECU. Piaggio's covering the cost of a new one, so I'm not to worried. But as you can see things can happen when playing with the new system. Scoot's usually in storage now for the winter so looks now it's free storage at the dealer for the winter.

Cheers,
Tross

Service department rep called today. They finally got it all figured out. They had to talk to Piaggio a lot to get hings working right. They finally got one of their MP3s updated and got the big printout of details from the ECU. I am invited to drop by anytime (except during lunch) to get my free update.

The Piaggio tech at the service department hooked up my MP3 500ie to PADS and the printout (among other things) says:

Reprogramming version: 3.3
MP3 492 Engine
"No new update available"
SW number: 1232GP30
Manufacture Date: 04/03/2008
Programming Date: 04/03/2008

Which does not makes sense based on what others are saying.

Hmmmmm Looks like if it ain't broke, don't fix it to me. I'll pass on this update since all is working fine on my end.

I have had some stalling issues first thing on cold mornings. Might have take a trip to Elk Grove or Grass Valley.

Elk Grove wants $60. Good grief.

Called Sierra Motor Sports in Grass Valley and they know exactly what I am talking about. Said they had already done a couple of mapping updates. And they want $43. I'm heading there tomorrow. An hour drive up into the hils. Should be nice.

sounds like a nice ride. post a couple pics along the way.

Might fire up the Contour video camera.

I'm anxious to hear about your experience! They may become my go-to dealer.

Have a great ride...

Cheers!

John

they have good remarks from JimC as well

Good to know!

Actually I don't think I've ever known them or commented on them - but if they know of the update then they're on the ball.

well somebody out there on there in Ca did. now I have to search and find out.

I had my engine rebuilt last August. Is there a chance that the latest ECU update was out then?

Ride was nice enough but when I got to the shop their Internet access was down. Came back down the hill without an update.

I feel for ya, brother! Little chilly today for that long of a ride with no love...

And no Internet?

John

http://flic.kr/s/aHsjDvXVqZ

Rode back up the hill to Sierra Motor Sports. The Internet connection was working and the Piaggio tech was back from lunch. Figured I would be out of there in 30 minutes. It was not to be.

After an hour or so they came out from the back and told me that they could not make a connection from the PADS to my scooter. They didn't know what was wrong. I knew it probably was not on the scooter side because A&S Power Sports had been able to connect to my scooter with their PADS but claimed there was no software update available. Now, the tech had the software update loaded up (...GP40 from 2011) but couldn't connect to my bike. Of course this is a Saturday so they can't contact Piaggio until Tuesday.

Just before I head out the door the tech gets a 'uh oh!' look in his eye and asks to try one more thing. After another half hour they come from the back again and say that they can now connect to my scooter and read all the information from the ECU but the on-screen button that starts the upload of the new software is disabled. They have to call Piaggio to see why they can't actually upload the software. They say they will call when they are ready and that the update will be free. Of course that is what A&S told me before they failed to provide the update.



At least is was a great day for a ride.