Modern Vespa

I have been thinking of buying an off brand android tablet. Maybe a 7".
There are lots of inexpensive ones on EBay.
I have an IPad, but I like the Android operating system better.
It would be used for different apps, games, and web. Camera is not really a needed.
Does anyone have any experience with these? I am looking at spending $100 or less.
Any suggestions on screen resolution, memory, expansion, etc, is appreciated!

Save your money, very few apps. I know a dozen people who have bought the cheap $75 Android Tablets and they are all in closets collecting dust now.

Really?
You mean you cannot add apps from the Google Play store?

You can do, but there's not the same selection of apps designed for android tablets as the iPad. A lot of the software is designed for phones and then scaled up badly.

It's dependent on how they implement Android. If a vendor puts their own implementation of Android (Kindle and NOOK are examples) it can preclude the Google Play store. HOWEVER, you can find loads of tablets with full, open implementation of Android, and not only are there lots of apps, but, according to a rabid iPad user friend, proportionally more free apps than the Apple store.

Not many apps are written for the tablet, they are all for the phones. Some write for both, but few and far between.

With the explosion in Android based tablets, this is becoming less and less the case. Apple is losing tablet market share at an astounding rate. Source: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57548900-37/ipad-will-lose-market-dominance-to-android-next-year-says-analyst/

I have an android phone, and I love it.
I thought if I went with the smaller 7" tablet screen, the resolution might not be as bad as if I were to go with a 10" screen. I get a lot of free apps off the Google Play store, and use them on my phone. I was hoping I could use some of those same apps on an android tablet.

Like I said, I have an Ipad, but I enjoy the androids ability to browse and play flash websites. My Ipad cannot play flash and I hate it.

Also, with it being only 7", it would fit in my purse easily.

holly

Try these forums for an insight into Android devices. Probably a bit more authoritative than the best of Vespa forums.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/

http://www.transformerforums.com/forum/transformer-pad-300-forum-tf300/

Xda developers is a bit more techno geek, but quite comprehensive.

Lots of info on how a given app might work on a 7in screen.

Flash is going away, takes to much power and resources to run. New Android OS's (Ice Cream Sandwich and newer) don't have Flash Player either.

I beg to differ. Adobe is no longer "supporting" Flash for Android. There are a wealth of browsers for Android (ICS and Jelly Bean) that still support Flash. You can't install directly from Play.Google, but you can easily "side load".

Flash will be going away completely in the next few years. It's a resource hog in anything.

Yes they are, but that's an inevitable effect of them having pretty much created the market for domestic Tablets and having it all to themselves for a while.

I know that they weren't the first to make a Tablet, but they were the first to make a Tablet work for people so they had pretty much 99% of the market share.

They are selling them at an ever increasing rate but as the market expands their percentage will inevitably drop.

I hope that the Windows RT machines end up selling well so we have a three way choice.

Truth. Flash is the scourge of the internet, and has arguably single-handedly set back the progression of web technology by being just good enough to fill an immediate need on desktops. Adobe themselves have admitted that Flash on mobile devices is a poor experience, and have abandoned the effort.

If you like Android, more power to you. If you're running to Android because of flash, you're doing it for all the wrong reasons. Flash really is dead and dying.

The value of Flash was predicated on its ubiquity. It was an attractive development environment because it ran on virtually everything, when "everything" consisted of desktops and notebooks. A (misguided) developer could develop for flash and be relatively assured that their frankencode would run everywhere, using up gobs of memory on every single machine in the process.

Once there were a few categories of devices on the market that either didn't run flash at all (iOS) or just didn't do it very well (Android), the attractiveness-through-ubiquity ground to a halt. Now, the only people still developing in flash are the same idiots who value form over function, but who haven't yet gotten the message that the world has moved on and invented better alternatives.

Really, seriously. Flash is dead. The stench is still with us, but it's effectively dead.

Holly,

I love Android and have had several tablets starting with a 7" rooted Nook color. Android tablets are in the process of becoming a commodity, and I look forward to the date when Apple, Microsoft or Sony can only look forward to grocery-store margins rather then the ridiculous margins they enjoy today.

Android apps that work very well with medium and large tablets are plentiful. There are tons of good free apps. Of the apps I use, I have only encountered one app that wasn't available in Android but was still very usable via a web interface, Asana.

One of the things I love about Android tablets is the ability to root and gain full control over them. I also look forward to the maturation of several different ARM-based open source initiatives that will provide yet more alternatives to Android vs. Apple. Apple and Microsoft can only continue make money from their tablets if there is no credible, usable alternative.

The minute that a mature ecosystem of open, cheap tablets and apps are available, it becomes increasingly hard for them to maintain their walled garden approach except as a exclusive Prada/Gucci-type device. Even the iPhone is losing market share and with good reason. It was great and without peer, now another product is better. Apple will likely do something to try to re-gain that crown and as consumers we benefit from the competition.

My advice on which one to buy is to avoid eBay until you have had a chance to get your hands on several devices and can test things like weight, touch screen responsiveness, battery life, etc. Some alternatives include:

Get a nook color or nook tablet and get a Nook to Android SD Card. Total cost would be less than $200 and there are tons of used Nooks and Barnes & Noble are selling nook and nook color tablets for very low prices. The nice thing about the N2A card is that it does not affect the nook in any way, so you don't need to know how to root the nook and can return it to it's ebook reader configuration very easily.Hopefully the N2A cards will work for the new Nook HD tablets that just came out a few days ago.

Beat Buy has several 7" tablets including the Acer Iconia A100 and Google Nexus 7. I played with a Nexus a few days ago and had to walk away - it was very good and the price point was outstanding.

Craigslist is another place to look - people get 7" tablets as gifts and later decide they don't want them.

Good luck and let us know which one you decided on.

Flash may be dying, but it still hasn't rolled over yet, and the date of the wake has not been announced.

Android is not dependent upon Flash, but it does, so far, allow Flash content. Until all web content is rid of this dreaded scourge of Flash, you have two choices 1) Android (at least for a while) or 2) Simply not access Flash based web content.

The OP is looking for a $100 or so 7in device for relatively simple use. She's not asking for a Mercedes Benz or a Cray follow on. Show me a brand new, in the box, IOS, 7 in device that will meet her criteria, and I'll buy it for her for Christmas.

EDIT: Absolutely agree with Silver Streak.

Regarding flash - this is like partisan politics and I have so say there is some hyperbole coming out here. Yes, Flash is dead and HTML5 is coming to save us all.

However -my Nook color with it's dinky old ARM A-8 handles Flash sites tolerably well and we will still be able to side-load the Flash plug-in if browser built-in flash is not an option. Newer 7" tablets like the Nexus or Iconia with their dual-core ARM processors handle flash pretty well. Obviously not as well as an i7 Laptop, but well enough to play flash games, watch movies, etc.

I look forward to Flash being gone, but until then I don't appreciate Apple making the choice for me and denying flash on their devices. Its that mentality that will cause me to avoid Apple products unless there is a very compelling use case. Shiny hardware is just not compelling when Samsung and Sony can make better, shinier hardware and still allow me the choice of how to use the hardware.

Speaking only for myself, I've turned flash off on my desktop and I don't miss it. Actually, it makes a lot of sites far more pleasant, as they can no longer inundate me with a barrage of moving, talking, animated ads. That's just my perspective, though. I get video when I want it, because all the purveyors of video were smart enough to see the writing on the wall and start delivering H.264 video instead. You missed the other part of her premise: she has an iPad, and wants flash. If she really wanted Android, like I said -- more power to her. If all she's looking for is flash, she's probably throwing away her money.

I read something about cost, purse-fit and portability as part of the use case. The iPad Mini might fit the bill for size, but low cost plus flash equals 7" tablet.

Good is the enemy of great. When I mentioned that flash had single-handedly held back developments in web technology, it was exactly for reasons like that. It works barely passably enough, and so people put up with it, even though it's shit. It's a shame that we're still putting up with it, even now that it's obvious that flash is a dead end.

And I would agree with those reasons. Except for the flash part. That's actually -- I'll say it -- a really stupid reason to buy another tablet, regardless of who makes it.

I agree Jess - however, we as consumers shouldn't be required to hold our breath for several years while HTML5 matures and replaces all of our favorite tools and games. Ultimately consumers should be the ones to decide, not developers. It sucks to have to maintain code for multiple platforms, but such is life.

Wheee! Someone show him this please! I need a christmas present!
LOL!
Seriously, I seem to find websites all the time that incorporate flash that my Ipad will not open, but my android phone will. So, if flash is going to be irrelevant in a few years, that is fine with me. But for now, it is still being used.
You are right, I am not looking for a Mercedes Benz tablet. If anything, I have one of those with the Ipad. I spent a ton of money on it. And I do like it. I just want something smaller I can carry around easier, runs android, downloads apps from the android store, can play movies, etc.
A really really big plus, and something I just thought of is if it has the ability to read memory cards. Say, I take some pics with my camera, can I take out the cameras memory card and plug it into an android tablet? What about a thumb drive. Do any tablets have the ability to read a thumb drive?
I may be willing to break the $100 threshold and get something a bit better. I was just seeing all of these cheap tablets on ebay and thought that might work for what I want to do.

I really appreciate everyones input! I have learned quite a bit so far!

My point is that -- right now -- there's very little flash content that can't be had via some other mechanism. All the major video sites will deliver H.264 video whenever necessary. The only thing left are (a) websites of individual photographers, who were somehow conned into believing that providing their audience with an awful experience would help their business, (b) a few games, and (c) especially obnoxious advertisements.

If you really want to play the legacy flash games that are still out there, then maybe flash is the answer. The other two categories that are still lingering in flash are objectively not worth spending money on.

the point is, jess, that holly has choices, and she expressed her choices. She likes Android better than IOS. She wants to spend about $100. There are Flash web sites she wishes to enjoy.

So, she can buy a $329 iPad Mini and not have Flash, not have Android (and the ability to share apps with her phone) and not have some $239 for that privilege. I won't even begin to go into USB, microSD, etc, etc.

For every pot there's a lid. Ardy chose me, Rachael chose you. There really is no accounting for taste.

Holly,

Don't listen to the naysayers. There are TONS of apps for Android - anything in the Play store. I never understood why an app needed to be "optimized" for a tablet - I don't have to buy software for my PCs that is optimized for the different screen sizes/resolutions, why should I for my phone and tablet?

Anyway, I have an off-brand (MOMO) 10" Android tablet I picked up in China for $160. It's got a great 1024x768 screen (these are actual iPad - original model - screens), aluminum back, Ice Cream Sandwich for an OS (stock - no loader/UI improvements), dual core 1.5 GHz processor, 1 GB RAM, 16 GB Flash storage, microSD card, two micro USB ports (both OTG capable), and a 7,000 mAh battery - I can read books with the Kindle software AND listen to music the entire 12 hour flight from LAX to Shanghai, and still have 20% left on the battery.

The downside? It came preset to Chinese, and the region was set to China. Change those two and it works flawlessly with everything in the Play store and other people can use it since it's now in English.

Read reviews of the generic before you get it - Google the name, you'd be surprised how much information is out there about each model. Some have crappy build quality - some are rock-solid like my MOMO. But there's no denying the benefits of a $160 10" tablet as compared to what the bigger names want you to buy. The fact it's the same OS as my phone is just icing on the cake!

Strawman argument. I objected only to flash as a reason, and gave more than adequate reason why. Arguing against points that I didn't make (that in fact I supported) isn't a worthy debate strategy.

Hahahahahaha...

Some people never get it.

How about a BRAND NAME 7 inch for 149.99?

I thought android tablets are what Data takes for a headache.

(Mods, please delete if appropriate)

No, seriously - why does it need to be optimized so much that a completely different app is needed? We don't do it on PCs, and the API for Android allows development of UI elements in device-independent units.

Will we need two versions of a tablet app, one for a 7" tablet and one for a 10" tablet? How about 12" tablets? How about a 5.5" big phone - does it need the phone or tablet version?

Should I get a different copy of Pro/Engineer for my laptop, than for my desktop? Same with Excel, or MATLAB?

Seriously, if having dedicated versions of software for different screen sizes and resolutions is progress, then we've taken HUGE steps backwards to the early/mid 80s in terms of UI. We have plenty of horsepower now, and the APIs allow for device-independent scaling of UI items, developers are doing a disservice to their customers by not taking advantage of that.

And customers are enabling by putting up with that. Touting it as an "advantage" is backwards to me.

But what do I know, just 24 years of consumer electronics and SW development...

Sigh.

Because the phone UI is inherently scaled down -- minimized, simplified -- to present an acceptable experience on the phone. Designing UI is difficult. Designing UI on a phone is even more difficult. Lots of compromises have to be made, and the designer must carefully choose which elements are important and which ones aren't. They also have to make the controls big enough to hit with a finger.

When you put a phone UI on a tablet, you get that same minimized UI, but scaled UP to tablet size. You now have to live with all those compromises that were made for the phone, even though there's no (or at least much less of a) reason to do so. If all the apps you run are designed for a phone (but scaled up), then you're wasting your money on a tablet. You're also being presented with huge controls, designed for fingers but now scaled up to tablet dimensions.

We don't do this on PCs because PCs don't have to make those compromises to begin with. A UI designed for a medium-sized screen will scale up reasonably well to a large screen. At some point in the evolution of the PC, the medium-sized screen will start being considered small, and applications will slowly move toward requiring larger and larger screens. This is a slow, gradual progression, though, and the applications slowly evolve to match current standards of screen sizes. Imagine using an application sized solely to fit on a 640x480 screen (which was considered large once) on today's large screens -- it would be fairly comical.

And that's exactly what you get when you view a phone UI on a tablet.

On top of that, images don't scale well. The easiest and cleanest image scaling is to double the pixels in each direction, which is in fact what some devices do when presenting a phone UI on a tablet. If you aren't dealing with dimensions that can be exactly double, scaling up the image is a less-than-perfect process which results in noticeable smear and artifacts.

Same for video. Unless you can do an exact doubling of dimensions (in both directions) you end up with shitty video, unless the source video was in fact larger than the rectangle it is being viewed in. Scaling down works quite well, for both images and video.

This is one (of several) reasons why the tech pundits talk about the problem of screen fragmentation on the Android platform. The plethora of screen sizes found on Android results in a nightmare for UI designers and also necessitates a lot more compromises with regards to image scaling.

It's still a reasonable platform for the price. As long as the buyer knows what he or she is getting for the $$$, it's a fair exchange.

Not everyone needs a Rolex to see what time it is.

Holly, I'm not sure what you mean by "off-brand", but I suggest you look at the Google (ASUS) 7" Nexus. Pretty much a state-of-the-art android device. Latest Android operating system and 100% supported by Google store (Google device - Google support ). The price is under $200 and a nice introduction to the fun world of small tablets. Okay, now the techno-geeks can continue their esoteric debate.

You seem intent on making that point, when nobody is really disagreeing.

I was commenting on your 1.5 screen length explanation of the inherent "problems" with Android and screen sizes.

One could offer that all the discussion of Flash is almost OT, as the OP wants to view Flash sites. It's what the user, not the developer, wants that's the issue. The user clearly wants Android, 7 in, a stated price point and Flash, all of which are available. Why digress into the lows of Flash, screen sizing, and the like. Is it germane to what holly asked?

It's winter, the island is quiet and the movie doesn't start for another hour. Does that suffice?

I never actually mentioned 1.5 screen length. I referred to screen fragmentation and scaling in general. These are well-known problems on the Android platform, and I only mentioned them to illustrate why scaling up a phone UI is problematic. I have nothing against Android, per se. The OP stated usage of flash as one of her desires, along with several others. I was attempting to broaden her perspective on flash, not to sabotage any potential Android purchase but so that she could perhaps make a better assessment of what her needs really are. If she still wants a flash-capable tablet after that, no hard feelings. That's her choice. I was merely offering her my perspective as both a web designer and software engineer who practices in the relevant fields. But if flash was her primary reason (which is how I read it) then a broader perspective may or may not change her plans. Users, for the most part, don't "want flash". They want video, or games, or interactivity. They may (falsely) equate that to flash, but flash is by far not the only way to deliver those features. The developers, in fact, do decide how to deliver those features. Flash filled a need for a time, and developers chose it as the only option. That time has passed. Developers are choosing other options (in droves), regardless of what users "think" they want.

My advice, with the disclosure that I am a longtime Apple shareholder:

Make a list of what apps and games you want to run.

Find out which 7" tablets will run the stuff on your list and, since you want the cheapest, buy the cheapest.

Consider tablets that may or may not run what's on your list on a "buying a pig in a poke" basis.

Nothing to say beyond that. This Android vs Apple stuff, and the Android holy war predicting Apple's Armageddon, is just getting old. One has to wonder why people don't have better things to do with their time.

jess

To continue winding you up. (Nothing else to do until the movie)

Sorry I wasn't more explicit. I meant your answer, to which I was referring, was 1.5 screens in length (on my computer). As in verbose.

In this case, what "users" want is irrelevant. Holly is "a user" or more precisely "the user", who stated what she wanted in explicit terms: "browse and play flash websites". If there is an alternative way to accomplish that explicit objective in a $100 tablet other than via Android, then go for it. Otherwise, she gets to "browse and play flash websites" in a sub optimal way (in the eyes of some) with Android, warts and all.

Time to make pop corn for the movie.

Best to you and Rachael.

We're not actually arguing the same point anymore, Al. You're stating that an Android tablet meets those goals, while I'm questioning the goals. Well, one of them, anyway, which is flash itself.

If, after reading my comments, she still wants flash, that's fine. I have no problems with that. At least she's making an informed decision. And that was my sole goal here: to inform her decision.