Modern Vespa

Now that some of the dimensions and technical specs have been announced, has anyone knowledgeable been able to determine whether the current 300cc or 300cc+engines will fit the new frame architecture?

I know a GT 200 engine has been shoved into an LX frame at least once or twice. I believe it required a fairly insane amount of modification, though. So anything is possible.

But I don't think the 946's frame was designed with that in mind, either. If the world ever sees one with a 300 engine in it, it'll likely be because somebody had a lot of time and money on their hands, and nothing else in particular they wanted to do with it.

I heard from a source that they were thinking of it, but decided to put the 350 engine in the PX Automatic instead. The engineering and retooling to do that would create more jobs than for the 946, which Italy needs right now.

It won't fit for the simple reason that.... you have no place to put the radiator.
That is the reason why this bike is air cooled and not water cooled.

What do you think all those vents are for?

Yes, it works for the 125/150 which is aircooled.
The 200+ are all water cooled and that body cannot accomodate the radiator(s) to cool the engine down.

Personally I would like to see it have a turbine engine.

I guess it is only just a matter of time...

Has anyone put a LX50 49cc engine in a 300 Super frame?

Just kidding around. I knew a question like this was coming along shortly.

From the looks of things it seems like it would about the same amount of work as putting a GT200 engine into an LX. There are a few details that may make it harder. The lack of under seat bucket and the fuel tank being in that space may make it harder to accommodate the larger throttle body of the 300. Placement of the radiators is a pain on the LX and would be equally painful on the 946, may or may not be able to take advantage of the vents in the rear.

They sell GTS125 Super in Europe therefore they are capable to put 49cc in too, I am sure

dang I was hoping the 946 would have been the cc designation of the scoot. now that would have been a real grocery getter .

A propos of this -and many other discussions here - I'd like to share an NSR moment that may be illuminating. I am a somewhat accomplished amateur cook. A dear friend frequently oohed and aahed over my dishes and recipes. She'd often ask "oh can I use rice flour instead of wheat flour and substitute safflower oil for the butter? And what about using water instead of cream? I said, as gently as I could, you can do all that, and it might be good, but it won't be making the same thing, it will be a different thing.
So. You might squeeze a 350 engine into a 79 PX, but then it isn't a 79 PX. With the requisite skill and compromises, you might stuff a 500 into a GTS. Or you could put a v-twin harley in a 946. But it would no longer be what it was meant to be by the person that conceived the original, balanced, whole. Hot rods are cool, but they aren't the original designer's idea.
I'm for the 946 as conceived, and also the GTS, GTV. Oh, a tweak here and there doesn't disturb or upset me. The idea is that a thing is what it is, and changing its essential nature is not necessarily an improvement.

Following that logic (which I agree with), it might make more sense to turn a 300 into a "946" by making a 946-like body around the frame and engine!!

Best
Miguel

I think your food analogy is misplaced. Or at least, mis-stated. Shoving a 350 engine into something that was never meant to accommodate it is much more like taking a perfectly good fig, wrapping it with prosciutto and mozzarella, drizzling it with balsamic vinegar, and then roasting it in the oven.

It's no longer a fig, all right. It's a whole lot better.

Or taking a parsnip, wrapping it with anchovies and gorgonzola, drizzling it with nuoc mam sauce, and then toasting it over a sterno can. Then it's no longer a parsnip. It's a whole lot worse. (things like this can go either way )

+1 exactly, but it is no longer a 946, or a fig, as wonderfully complete and adequate as designed by their creator. Something new and potentially enhanced, but not the 'thing' itself.

+1 you too Dooglas, exactly the same with negative potential.

Or taking an lx50 and putting a 150 in it. How nuts would that be?

Now you're getting crazy.

Slow news day is it?

Speaking of which, I've been thinking of shoving a 190 kit into an ET4. Anyone think it's worth the $?

How would that ride compared to my gt200?

Pretty favorably around town, but not as much on the open highway.

My kitted LX has about the same performance as a stock GT200 up to about 55 mph or so (only with greater agility); above that, the greater horsepower of the GT wins out easily.

What about a Turbo??
Ha ha!
Mega.

Question for Witch.

If you know that they have put a Gt 200 engine in a LX, do you know where they put the radiators?

For now it's mounted behind the seat. It works but not attractive.



Rosebud LX200 Super Special

In Montana. More space out there.

It's fun to see how these threads meander. . whats on everyones mind

At the same time, the hoped for talking point here was intended to be whether in your educated opinion the new 946 frame would accomodate a larger motor, perhaps 300cc+?

Aside from a water cooled plumbing solution, will the frame work, you think??

Anything is possible with enough time, money, and fabrication. I think your question is possibly more properly stated as "Will a 300cc+ engine fit into the frame without radical modification?"

And we don't really know the answer to that yet. Nobody has seen the innards of the frame. As stated earlier, the gas tank in the nose of the seat may present some challenges, and there's really no place to relocate the gas tank should it need to be moved.

oopsclunkthud,
When you say that the installation of the rediator behind the seat is not attractive, I would say that you are more than somewhat understating the facts.
Sort of reminds me of my late mother in law, but is better looking.

How about a smaller version of the Wankel Rotary from the Suzuki RE-5? Kickass exhaust note. who cares about cooling the thing.

Why not just go for an air-cooled boxer engine. From a Porsche.

This

R

That's ridiculous. Or awesome. I can't decide which.

But its 'vintage...'

R

You're right. It's ridiculous.