Modern Vespa

Is it just me, or does anyone else here get a little annoyed by the Torx and other security screw heads on your scooter? I'm used to slotted and phillips screws, or hexagonal bold heads. Now I'm forced to deal with Torx and those square hole thing-a-ma-bobs. Do you replace those screws, like on your battery cover? Or do you carry the Torx and other tools with you?

I replace them at the earliest possible opportunity. AFAIK, it's only the bolts holding the exhaust, yes? Or are there others I've forgotten?

Just like when they started using phillip screws rather than good old slotted, the torx can use more torque without killing the screw. It is actually a better screw. Especially it you want to unscrew something after several years.

Agree torx are better but what annoys me is when the use some of each should use one or the other.

The only Torx head bolts I recall on my ET4 are the ones that attach the flyscreen to their mounts.

They are a serious PITA.

Two have already become useless, the problem being solved with a hacksaw, converting them for use with a plain old flathead screwdriver.

The only security bolts I don't mind are the ones that fasten my license plate, which require a special wrench to remove.

I haven't had to do a roadside repair that required me to remove my license plate. On the other hand, I would have to remove the flyscreen if I ever had to change my headlight bulb...A repair that's certainly plausible when on a road trip and something that can't usually wait (I always carry a spare bulb).

I'll be converting or replacing all those flyscreen bolts when I get around to it.

I hate Torx bolts and replace them with a allen head. I don't wait for them to be removed either like during maintenace. The reason is if I'm on the road and need a tool I don't want to carry extra tools and if I need help chances are someone won't have one of those POS torx.

Your battery cover is held by torx screws. Wow Vespa is getting fancy!

I've changed a couple. Fortunately I sometimes fix bikes on the side or buy and later part and have aquired some screws over time. I change them to allen hex. IMO they are better then torx since the socket is deeper.

I'm gradually changing all my torx bolts for allen bolts....easier to open and they come in groovy colours...........

On the newer 300s, BVs etc, all the screws holding the bodywork on are Torx now.

Not that it matters but i prefer the allen and torx types to the slotted and phillips. The latter are old tech and get buggered up so easy.

Or we could go back to rope as our main means of fastening things together.... never did get a fid.

If I had a nickel for every allen bolt I've buggered I'd have a bag of nickels.

Torx are much better heads. They guide the tool in better, so you almost have to insert it properly. They have much more contact surface so they take torque better and are harder to strip out.

Go to a good hardware store and get some of these. I have one in metric Allen, one in SAE Allen and one in Torx. They are portable, easy to use, hard to lose and fit everything on the bike except the Phillips heads.

Piaggio uses Torx because they're better. I like them a lot.

P.

I generally hate Philips. So easy to strip them! Allen I like!

I don't mind Torx and Allen heads and I prefer Phillips over slotted by far-all on the premise that I am wrenching at home.

My 07 GTS has Torx at the exhaust and the rear rack. Can't remember any others anywhere. Wait, the peep hole on the water pump, when you check the valve lash adjustment.

I might change my view once I run into a roadside repair situation where I need a Torx key and don't have it. Right now I can only imagine that being a shredded rear tire, and in that case, I'm toast anyway because I don't carry spares.

I'm with you Paul.

Dare I say it...maybe there's a good reason they chose to use the fasteners they did, where they did? Hah! Maybe not....

Doesn't matter, having the right tools including a selection of Torx bits is half the battle since you'll find torx heads elsewhere including sporadically placed on other makes and model of bikes and cars.

My DR650 has some here and there, as did my Mini Cooper S (big, beefy ones) so rather than gripe about them, I just tooled up for them just like I did when metric fasteners started infiltrating the garage. In fact I recently sold a bunch of SAE wrenches and sockets at a garage sale, after I dusted them off of course...

Perfect excuse to head over to the Craftsman aisle at Sears!

I did not know that. My 2010 300 Super still had mostly philips and allen.

Oh, I think Torx are definitely better fasteners. On the older GTS bikes, though, there were only a small handful of places where they were used, and so carrying an extra tool just for those was kind of annoying.

My BMW R1200R is entirely Torx, internal Torx and external Torx both. I haven't found a single non-Torx fastener on it. Thus, I carry an extensive set of Torx tools on that bike.

It's having to carry around both allen and torx that is annoying.

Just so. I'm not a fan of slotted screws at any time or allen-heads on screws that need to be done up righty-tighty. A mixture of Phillips (Pozidrive) and Torx would be fine though.

I love torx fasteners. I got a little torx driver with bits to keep on the scoot. I also have a set of torx sockets that I keep in the garage. I've spent probably $20 on both.

As others have mentioned, they are a better fastener.

There are several advantages to Torx screws, but they are most important to manufacturers who can set up a work station with the proper tool for that operation. But when I am working on a bike I am taking apart many parts all of which have a different size Torx driver. So I need to have handy six or seven sizes of Torx where two Phillips drivers would fit almost every screw on the bike. And having a drive handle with torx bits is not the answer either because the socket for the bits is too large diameter to reach down in the wells in the plastic parts. I have to have actual single size drivers. And that of course increases the size of my road tool roll too.

Plus the average vehicle is not as uniform as the R1200R with only Torx. Most have some Phillips and Allen head thrown in for good measure.

There are two separate discussions going on.
I'd set aside the security aspect of Torx bolts. Now that the drivers are commonly available, there is no security aspect.

Are Torx better than flat or Phillips? Probably yes.

Are they still a pain? For me and for others, based on the responses, yes. There's not a lot I can do about uncommon or very involved maintenance, but I'd like to carry as few tools as possible to effect common roadside repairs. I already had three different size Torx drivers, and none of them fit the bolts on my flyscreen.
Just for my ET4, I have to carry a socket set, Phillips and flathead drivers, hex wrenches, and now, Torx drivers when I touring. I keep the space down by only carrying the sockets and hex sizes I think I'll need.

Still, I like Paul G's suggestion...It looks like the best way to go. If you gotta have them, have them all, and in as small a package as possible.

And as always, there's always roadside coverage to take care of the everything else.

I'm often pissed when I can't find fastener sizes I need in EDIT torn torx. Hurry the F up. And yes two or three head types on one machine is insane. And very Italian IMO

Could be worse: Many German cars (VW, Audi, MB) have Allen, Torx AND Triple square fasteners.

The days of repairing a bike or car with a big screwdriver, a hammer, some vice grips and duct tape are long gone.

P.

Does anyone have a link to a site that sells anodized bolts. I have found Ano Ti bolts that are Torx but they are $$$. Red or Gold bolts in the brake rotors would look sweet.

Which supports my thinking that there is serious engineering behind it, rather than Mediterranean playfulness. But I am not trained to know what the parameters could be to decide on one or the other. Is it just torquing ability?

The GTS has all sorts of different size Torx, Allen and Phillips heads. For that reason the only tools I carry are a mobile phone and credit card.

I use this company.......http://www.pro-bolt.com/

or the US site.........http://www.probolt-usa.com/

Can anyone tell me what size the torque screw is for a battery cover and knee pads of a 2012 300GTS?

It looks like a T-25 to me. At least that's the size I've been using on Badonka.

I'm old enough to remember the days when some British cars had a mixture of metric and Whitworth fasteners.