Modern Vespa

Yes you read right, steering with your rump. Your butt cheeks can do the job better than by moving the handle bars. Ive been using my tushy for a while and it really works! By nudging the seat with your left cheek to the right the bike will turn to the right and vice-versa. And you don't even have to move the handle bars. Give it a go. You will be surprised at how well it works. And as a plus you will be giving your glutes a nice work-out at the same time.. Who wouldn't mind a nice firm derriere. 8)

Many pro dirt bike riders will steer with their feet using the pegs. Same principle, I suppose.

Doesn't work. You are actually moving the handlebars when you move your ass whether you believe it or not. There' s a video of a bike with its handlebars fixed on youtube with the rider swinging his ass around. The bike does not deviate...

+1

No they can't. What you are doing is subconsciously pushing the bars when you shift your weight.

I can stand on one leg with all my 90 kg weight on either footboard, attach elephants to either side of the rear end of the scoot and swing from side to side like a deranged gibbon but the scoot ain't going anywhere but a straight line unless there is some input at the front end.

+2

I only use that method for wide turns.

But dirt bike riders ar swinging the tail - that's a whole different ball game.

True, true.

But now I want to make a pun about tails, only puns are the lowest of all forms of humor.

take 2 bars and clamp them to the handlebars, one on each side. mount them to the frame of the scoot so you cannot turn the handlebars. Now go ride it. Tell us all about it.

Here's one version of the "No BS (body-steering) bike" in action:

Alternative!

get up to speed. Stand up on the bike, take your hands off the bars (to obviate the statement that you're actually pressing on the bars with your hands). Press with your feet on different sides of the floorboards, or if you're super brave, on different parts of the seat

(DO NOT ACTUALLY DO THIS)

Thanks Jess, that's the video I was trying to find...

When you push on one peg with your foot you have to counter that force with your arms that are holding on to the the handle bars.

If I had a disorder that caused me to move my arms one way when I thought of blue butterflies and the other way when I though of orange I could go around saying that the key to steering a motorcycle is to think of blue and orange butterflies. It may work in my mind but I'd still be wrong about the physics.

see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner#Superstition_in_the_pigeon

I saw a woman on a 50cc scooter once that obviously didn't know about counter steering. When she came up to an intersection, you could see her physically throwing her weight to the side to turn into the side street. Pretty scary looking...

Available for testing purposes..



SDG

Correct. And you can test this by getting the bike moving, taking your hands off the bars, and steering with your ass. Wear a helmet. Take video.

It is surely impossible to make a turn without counter steering, but you don't need to have your hands on the handlebars to do so. This kid does it at about the 30 second mark:

Testing for what ? Diabetes ?

Bill X

All you nay-sayers know nothing. I have ass-steered many times when riding no-hands. So there need be no pressure on the handlebars when shifting your ass.

This, of course, was on old geared scooters. You can't ride no-hands on modern scooters because the throttle snaps shut - unless you have a mod to keep it open.

Mike

His hands are doing the repositioning, dammit! You can see, by the tiny invisible strings he is using to control it!

We have decreed this is impossible. Thusly, this is heresy and he must now be drowned in the nearest local body of water.

(yes, you are correct, and is my supposition on moving the bike without your hands by use of your feet on the floorboards while not holding the bars, which if anyone has been stupid enough to try it you'd see does actually work. No one ever said that this precludes countersteering, but what some seem to be implying is that countersteering can only be done by hands. while countersteering is necessary, a countersteer need not be initiated by the hands. it is better controlled by the hands, though, rather than the buttox or by the feets. Unless, again, what we are seeing in this video is heretical anti-physics magicks the likes of which are cause for immediate execution. Also I used to do this as a mountain biker and bmx rider all the damned time.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_and_motorcycle_dynamics rider>>vehicle

So what I'm hearing is that the only reason that kid can make that turn is that he's riding a girl's bike.

The article does not state that, that is inferred by you. The whole area: note - an important section is highlighted

If that weight thing were a steadfast rule then would not anyone over a certain weight be able to steer with no hands on a vehicle of sufficiently smaller weight? E.g., that guy who was 800lbs who was on the news recently because he wrote to Dr Phil to help him lose weight - is he the one who is capable of steering the GTS?

I see a "What If?" submission to Randall at XKCD coming up....

+3 Same thing when I slightly steer by cupping air with no hands on the bars. Just putting torque on the frame and causing counter steer.

All you butt-steering, ass-twiching, footpeg pushing, samba-salsa shimmy swinging, vood-doo waltzing, non-counter-steering, alternative steering folks, need to have this thread to yourselves.

It just needs to be labeled as alternative medicine and not for noobs

You know, in a monkey knife fight where math and physics are involved, my money is on Patrick.

Just sayin'.

Sure, of course, Patrick is generally correct.

In this instance, there are two things of note:
- Patrick implied the article stated something it did not, and I pointed this out. It's an assertion he made without evidence. It also has some interesting implications.
- I've actually (quite shamefully) ridden, standing up on the floorboards, on my GT, at the end of Cannonball 2008, coming into ocean city on the downhill side of the bridge, and steered with my feet on the floorboards (for about 5 seconds before I realized OH MY GOD WTF AM I DOING and stopped). I experienced the bike moving in the lane from pressure I was applying by leaning my body, similarly to how I used to control a bicycle with no hands. Even more shamefully, I believe I was screaming "WOOOO!" in my helmet.

so those with bigger asses can steer better than those with nassatol.

No, he made a point that is not in conflict with the article at all. When the rider weighs more than the bike, they can probably steer the bike by leaning. I would guess (note that I'm absolutely guessing) that the exact relationship has more to do with the mass of the wheels and the rate at which they are spinning, but now we're just splitting hairs. It's not an unreasonable assertion.

It's kind of odd that you chose to seize on this random piece of information in a wikipedia article and conclude that Patrick went off the rails, seemingly without even understanding what the article actually says or the point Patrick was making.

Try this guys if you have a bicycle handy.

Walk forward pushing the bicycle by holding by the saddle with one hand only.

Lean the bicycle in the direction you wish to turn it.

Note that the front wheel will go off axis as the bicycle falls into the turn. Specifically the wheel turns in to the turn.

ie.NO INPUT ON THE BARS!


Some where above...someone postulated that welding the bars straight confirms some theory that has nothing to do with the real world fact... bicycles and motorcycles DO NOT have their bars welded straight.

I think you misunderstand the premise. The experiment involves welding on a pair of fixed bars in addition to the regular handlebars. The wheel itself is still free to turn. The point of the exercise is to allow the rider to shift his weight while holding the fixed bars so as not to be able to push or pull on the actualy bars while doing so.

Which would be a very useful exercise. It is all about balance, correct?

I said that. if you can turn a scooter/motorcycle with out in-put on the handle bars I want to see it. Please post a video. select a safe speed of say 30 mph and go around a posted 45-50 mph corner. MAKE a believer out of me.

No I did not misunderstand the premise! ( I am aware of the other scenario though and thats different)

This is exactly what he postulated: Now tell me about what you discovered with the bicycle experiment that I proposed .

You first. I want to see the results of riding with the welded bars.

I have already proven a bicycle will turn without input on the bars. Prove me wrong.

Not really the same thing, since the underlying mechanism that prevents the motorcycle from turning is the spinning mass of the wheel, which the bicycle (being pushed along at walking speed, no less) doesn't have.

Apples and oranges.

I can lean a donkey into a ditch. I've done it. What is the "usable data" from this experiment.

oh your right with a bicycle at walking speeds. try it at 30 mph on a scooter or motorcycle