Modern Vespa

My 250 died on the way home the other night and sure enough it was the battery that had died so I did a search here on MV and found the recommendations for the MotoBatt MBTX16U and ordered one up. Well the thing is too big to fit in the batt compartment on the 250, I guess my assumption the the chassis on the 400 and 250 were the same for the most part was wrong. Can you actually fit the 16U in the compartment for the 400/500 and fit the cover back on? No way mine would do that.

A bit more research on my part would have shown that the MBTX12U was the correct physical size to fit the bike so I have one of those on the way.

No word back on returning the 16U so I may throw it up on the for sale section if it does fit the bigger scoots.

the 16 is perfect for the 400/500's

the 12 is the right size for the 250's

maybe someone close to you needs the 16.

Where on the central Coast are you? I'm in Santa Barbara, and I still have the original factory battery. I should replace it (5 years old) - would be nice to drop off the new battery to the dealer rebuilding the front end!

Thanks OAD! I should do better homework!

Grover Beach, so not too far away, could be a good excuse for me to take the Tiger out for a run if you want the battery, I did hook it up and started the scoot once but that is all the wear and tear on the thing, wanted to make sure the battery was the issue. The old battery wouldn't show more than 10.5 volts when running the bike at 4k rpm, new battery is right at 12.0 volts so I'm sure the regulator is still good and the battery just wore out, it was the original one too so over 5 years old.

looks like someone is going for a nice ride soon

Great! I get my scoot back in 3 weeks, maybe we can meet in Lompoc?

Sure or I can get to Santa Barbara if need be. Currently Sunday is the best day of the week for me, I work tue-sat and have a piano lesson on Monday afternoon but we can work something out I'm sure.

i have that battery in my 500, just love it. when it goes bad i will look to replace it with the same.

Got my MBTX16U put in earlier today, and it is indeed a difference. The bike cranks over much faster even in 35F temps...very pleased.

excellent

I do wish they would spend the extra ten cents and include the actual terminals and screws to be able to fully realize the quad-terminal thing. But still, nice to put my add-ons on the tops of the posts and the primary connections on the base.

just screw straight in , no need for extra terminal brackets.

They don't even include extra screws to do that with, if you're using both screw points on the included terminals

Not that you can even REACH the other pair in any way when installed, just saying, for when they are accessible, it'd be nice if they included all the necessary parts to use the setup in full.

go to ace hardware and get a couple screws.

The battery was designed to use either or for just you bike leads. having the extra set of terminals is a bonus. The battery design makes it possible for that battery to be used in alot of different machines with out having to make alot of other battery configurations.

OK, let me make this clear. I do not intend to use the additional connections. You can't even access them, and they would make it more difficult to get the battery back in or out, the way it works in a 400.

Yes, I COULD go buy more screws, sure. My point was simply that it would be nice if they could give you the extra ten cents of hardware to fully realize the battery's design advantages. Do you disagree that that would be a good thing for them to do? I was simply stating what would be the one thing I would wish them to do to really crown the package off and offer the perfect package, not in any way saying they were preventing the use of the extra terminals.

if you can't use them why would you need the extra terminals. hell I have those little bracket things if you want them.

This is not a difficult concept, you seem to be intentionally misreading what I have said at this point. As I said - It would be a nice touch on their part - and really finish off the package and make the item feel complete. It doesn't matter if I can use them or not, in my particular setup. That's completely irrelevant. The point is that NOT including the parts to fully realize the potential of the product in this case feels a bit cheap on their part. It was a simple comment on how I feel they could spend a few cents and really make you feel like they were paying attention and giving you everything you might want from them (four terminals, eight screws) instead of making you go get more stuff if you DID want to use all four.

Have you never looked at something and said "This is a great product, I love it, but it would make the presentation absolutely perfect if they would just include (tiny item worth almost nothing) in the package for those that can use it"?

not really, I knew what I was getting before I ordered the product , a couple screws meh no biggee. no screws I wouldn't be perfectly pleased. but they provided what was needed. anything extra would have been a bonus but from their side drives up costs. So you and I would pay more for something that you or I may not use and throw away. So no I do see it as something they SHOULD include.

No one here is gonna disagree with you, but don't tell us, tell them. and while your at it leave us a link so we can do the same. That way when I order my new battery next year or the year after it will come with all the bits.


Cheers,
Tross

Yes, they provided what was absolutely bare-bones necessary to make the product functional. That is expected. I did not say they SHOULD include the additional parts, I said they could, and it would be a nice touch. Again, you seem to be intentionally misreading what I say and characterizing it as something else. It was a simple comment on what would be a nice touch. Instead of reading it as what it was, you seem to have read into it some kind of complaint about the product, which was never stated, implied, or intended.

Sounded to me like two taking TVs.
Could it be a KY vs TN thing???

probably

Brand new MotoBatt MBTX16U battery was waiting for me at my desk at the office. Hope it takes care of the slow turnover on start in the morning. The old battery would get drawn down so much the panel would reset to km/c from mi/f.

you'll be happy

This happened to me several times. I just got a MotoBatt and I am looking forward to experiencing the difference.

(He said hopefully)

Every time I start the MP3 since I bought my MotoBatt, I thank OAD for suggesting this battery.

I'll be putting a Motobatt in Ivana Tinkle's LX150190 tomorrow - the original battery just doesn't have enough CCA to reliably cope with the extra start-up load of the Malossi cylinder upgrade. Plus I like the extra terminals for easy electrical add-ons without compromising the starter wiring.

You would be correct sir! Healthy crank and my readout is still showing miles not kilometers.

I did the same. Mains to scoot on one side, pigtail for charger and line to GPS power on the other.

First cold morning since the MotoBatt.

Blammo! Started in one crank.

Outstanding.

Sounds like a great battery, so who's the best (cheapest) online supplier to buy them from? Or can they be ordered through a auto parts supplier?


Cheers,
Tross

some folks have found them thru Amazon. Can't remember where I got mine. But don't go by the charts to look up your scoot and order that way. just find the MBTX16U , this is the proper size for your scoot.

No point in going through Amazon, really. Same price as buying them direct, and you may end up paying shipping as well. Motobattbatteries.com seems to be the best route. Straight from the company, and free shipping.

I'm thinking that is how I got mine last year.

I have had real good luck with Batteries Plus...

* X2-14 X2Power® AGM Battery 300CC 2010 to 2011 GTS300 Piaggio (Vespa) Scooter or Moped

* 300CC 2010 to 2011 GTS300 Piaggio (Vespa) Scooter or Moped X2Power® AGM Battery X2-14. X2Power batteries offer the best features; fully sealed - maintenance free, pure calcium-lead plate design for increased power, easy to install with front mount threaded terminals and extended reserve power for more accessories. Backed by a full 24 month warranty, an X2Power is the perfomance battery you have been seeking. The X2-14 has specific dimensions of 5.88" x 3.44" x 5.75".
* Item number: X2-14
* Weight: 12.0000 lbs
* Voltage: 12V
* Capacity: 12AH
* CCA: 220

I think that come February and it's snowy and I'm bored I might just buy that Lithium Iron Ion that I keep trying to talk people here into trying so I can decide whether or not to get one. It's true that I was able to shock my OEM battery back to life last year but it'll be pushing my luck next spring and the idea of trying new technology with no idea what kind of reliability to expect is mighty appealing...

I'm looking at this: http://www.amazon.com/Shorai-LFX14A2-BS12-Extreme-Lithium-Powersports/dp/B005EYM4JC/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1355781881&sr=8-17&keywords=lithium+iron+motorcycle which is almost the same total AH and CCA as stock but with flat drain (don't die after cranking and have to wait to recover), almost impervious to aging, and a fifth the weight. But damned expensive.

EDIT: Here it is for $10 less and free shipping: http://www.amazon.com/Shorai-Inc-LFX14A2-BS12-LITHIUM-BATT/dp/B007GR5D84/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_1

I've been asking the same question for over a year now and nobody has an definitive answer: since LiFeIon is a fundamentally different technology and the CCA is not tied to total reserve the same way a lead battery is, is it actually important to have a high total capacity provided the battery has the necessary cranking power? The answer for a conventional battery is yes because the two are intimately connected, but I see LiFeIon batteries with high CCA but small[er] capacities that almost approach reasonable prices. Those are made with cylindrical cells, which Shorai says are bad because they are made for power tools...but I'm not understanding WHY that is a bad thing...and let's face it, Shorai has a vested interest in pushing their design.

Do I really need 200+ CCA? Or does Piaggio say that simply because 200+ CCA means (with a lead acid battery) you have a big enough battery to have the electrolyte reserve needed? Nobody seems to be discussing this on the Internet - hell, one of Shorai's dealers' automatic battery selector told me that the correct replacement for an MP3/500 is a friggin' 350 CCA model, which I suspect is based more on what they can sell me than on what the bike actually needs (which should be the same or less, not more, than the OEM).

Batteries Plus absolutely sells a working, proper battery for the purpose, and probably it's a direct match to the OEM one. The Motobatt will give you a little more potential power and more CCAs. When it comes to auto batteries, as long as it fits the purpose, more is better!

My thoughts: it's the CCA which is important. The actual capacity isn't important, as once the bike is started (and the stator/regulator/hidden fuse are all good) the 500 at least can provide about 12A more than the bike needs even with the battery re-charging. Which is why the smaller LiFePO4 batteries are just fine. I do note however that at least one dealer no longer recommends them (Scooterwest) as they've had some failures. I suspect these batteries are far less forgiving than conventional lead-acids (including AGM, MotoBatt etc) when the charging electrics goes udders vertical.

Thanks Jim, I searched Scooterwest and couldn't find anything.

A quick back-of-envelope calculation shows that 240CCA (much more than the stock MP3/500 lead battery) requires only 2AH of capacity, if a battery were perfectly efficient. Multiply that times three (because whether or not it's a standard somewhere, all the reviews I see put the battery thru three 30 second cranks) and that's only 6AH. Your capacity has to be 6AH, plus loss due to inefficiency, loss due to deterioration (sulphurization of plates, for a lead battery), loss due to temperature, loss due to internal current (leakage), and loss due to external current (accessories). So clearly you don't need a 14AH battery except to account for all the sources of loss. I suspect a 180 CCA, 8AH high-efficiency lithium battery would do. Hell, for the size and weight of these things you could carry a spare right in the same battery compartment.

Shorai's CCA are mainly based on case size. The unit I was looking at is 14AH, 210CCA - no doubt that would work. But they also sell a considerably cheaper 12AH, still way more than enough, but the CCA drops to 155 - hence my other question, how much CCA does the starter actually need? I can find what the motor rating is but that will be draw at zero load at some RPM (or whatever the Italian equivelent of NEMA standards say), not what it actually needs in its intended application.

Or I can just buy the one I know will work...