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Sometimes it IS worth looking far away
Magg wrote:
Speaking of shipping from the middle east; back in 2006 I shipped a px200 motor from Beirut to Oslo. That was nearly 400EUR just in shipping, but the price of the motor itself was so cheap it was still worth it.
I found a lo mile professionally built Pinasco kitted GL motor w Sterling pipe in England & same situation. Such a good deal the shipping cost was acceptable. £295 for the motor & £195 to ship it. LOTS of good Vespa stuff in the UK that's very accessible.

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V oodoo wrote:
Sometimes it IS worth looking far away
Magg wrote:
Speaking of shipping from the middle east; back in 2006 I shipped a px200 motor from Beirut to Oslo. That was nearly 400EUR just in shipping, but the price of the motor itself was so cheap it was still worth it.
I found a lo mile professionally built Pinasco kitted GL motor w Sterling pipe in England & same situation. Such a good deal the shipping cost was acceptable. £295 for the motor & £195 to ship it. LOTS of good Vespa stuff in the UK that's very accessible.

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Wow Magg you really did make out well.
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Len Smith wrote:
Yes Len that has been brought to my attention.It would be perfect if I didn't have to buy crank , crank bearings ( as well as rest of motor bearings) and top end. I've got something in the works. Just have to decide whether to go with rally or sprint.
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I've got a set of vnb cases that would work for you. Rotary pad is perfect. There is a piece of metal missing where the cylinder shroud "sits.". Does not effect anything and doubt you can see it missing. cases out of an Allstate. Yea 'Merica!

PM me and I will get you a photo. This one goes cheap.
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aww shit Lynn! grab the Rally case! is it 180 or 200? if its 200 you are set.

2 words, parts availability.

sprint is not bad either, cheaper thats for sure. but the rally 200 is the best engine Piaggio ever produced for these vintage bikes.
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GickSpeed wrote:
I've got a set of vnb cases that would work for you. Rotary pad is perfect. There is a piece of metal missing where the cylinder shroud "sits.". Does not effect anything and doubt you can see it missing. cases out of an Allstate. Yea 'Merica!

PM me and I will get you a photo. This one goes cheap.
Didn't even see your post Gickspeed.
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Gickspeed and JamesJohn I'm working on getting a motor put togetherfor a great price and I can go two ways , rally or sprint and the ralley has been opened up for a 200 top end, the ralley I was told can be made so I don't need to mix oil but I would have to find a gas tank with the oil injection. But to tell the truth for my intensions I don't mind just keeping a 5 gal can of mixed gas in the garage .
Decisions decisions.
I won't commit though until I get the chassis back from being sand blasted.
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Lynnb wrote:
find a gas tank with the oil *'tank'.
*fixed that

There's one on scootnet as we speak. Literally.
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jimmyb865 wrote:
Lynnb wrote:
find a gas tank with the oil *'tank'.
*fixed that

There's one on scootnet as we speak. Literally.
Thanks Jimmy do you have a link? Everytime I goto look in scootnet it is down or something.
Lynn
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Lynnb wrote:
jimmyb865 wrote:
Lynnb wrote:
find a gas tank with the oil *'tank'.
*fixed that

There's one on scootnet as we speak. Literally.
Thanks Jimmy do you have a link? Everytime I goto look in scootnet it is down or something.
Lynn
Vespa Rally 180/200
Description FS: Original Piaggio Rally 200 Fuel Tank w/ Steel Autolube Tank. $85 + shipping.
Location Palm Beach, Florida
Phone 609-947-9839
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Thanks Jimmy found it on first page, I'm amazed it opened for me.
Lynn
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It's mine, by the way.
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TravisNJ wrote:
It's mine, by the way.
Hey...there ya go.

"Lynn meet Travis, Travis meet Lynn"

Hey Lynn, that tank would be a strong purchase in the right direction.

You could build a bike around that.........kinda like the commercial where the lady puts the fancy faucet on the architects desk and says "design me a house around this".
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Lynnb wrote:
V oodoo wrote:
Sometimes it IS worth looking far away
Magg wrote:
Speaking of shipping from the middle east; back in 2006 I shipped a px200 motor from Beirut to Oslo. That was nearly 400EUR just in shipping, but the price of the motor itself was so cheap it was still worth it.
I found a lo mile professionally built Pinasco kitted GL motor w Sterling pipe in England & same situation. Such a good deal the shipping cost was acceptable. £295 for the motor & £195 to ship it. LOTS of good Vespa stuff in the UK that's very accessible.

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Wow Magg you really did make out well.
I take it back Magg I thought it was you that got the deal but it was Terry, so way to go Terry you really did well.
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Lynnb, what what was wrong with your crank? Looked back and couldn't find any pictures.
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never mind that, I was only trying to get you to do what you are doing now: shop HARD if you want to get your money's worth AND you gotta jump when the right deal does show up.
-You need to commit to that Rally motor quick before somebody else does because they don't come up often/easy and because
jamesjohn wrote:
aww shit Lynn! grab the Rally case! is it 180 or 200? if its 200 you are set.

2 words, parts availability.

sprint is not bad either, cheaper thats for sure. but the rally 200 is the best engine Piaggio ever produced for these vintage bikes.
Yeah, please put your pics back up, we're using them to help here. We ARE helping, right?
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Cncjerry wrote:
Lynnb, what what was wrong with your crank? Looked back and couldn't find any pictures.
Thats an easy one, other than being .050 differnce from the bearing it was centre punched. And the motor is one thing I have never allowed myself to fall short on.
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V oodoo wrote:
never mind that, I was only trying to get you to do what you are doing now: shop HARD if you want to get your money's worth AND you gotta jump when the right deal does show up.
-You need to commit to that Rally motor quick before somebody else does because they don't come up often/easy and because
jamesjohn wrote:
aww shit Lynn! grab the Rally case! is it 180 or 200? if its 200 you are set.

2 words, parts availability.

sprint is not bad either, cheaper thats for sure. but the rally 200 is the best engine Piaggio ever produced for these vintage bikes.
Yeah, please put your pics back up, we're using them to help here. We ARE helping, right?
Terry I really can't commit to any motor parts until the chassis is sandblasted. I'm not really even sure if the parts that are in my motor other than crank and top end would fit the ralley cases, this is all part of this learning curve.This is just pre research for me so when I get the yay or nay for the chassis I can move onto getting another motor.
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If PX gearshafts and christmas trees fit in the rally 180 cases (i know they fit in the rally 200 case!) then I've got you covered on them as well.
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Thanks Travis this is the kind of stuff I need to learn. Taking notes and your in them.
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I wouldn't be worried about the punch marks as that is common to ensure a press fit but are you saying the crank was worn down where I guess that edge is next to the lobe? .050? Wow. It would have rattled I'll bet.
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Yeah but inches or metric? I asked, never found out.

Almost 1/16" of clearance might explain the wiped out rotary pad. If you could get it to run that way, I have no experience.
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V oodoo wrote:
Yeah but inches or metric? I asked, never found out.

Almost 1/16" of clearance might explain the wiped out rotary pad. If you could get it to run that way, I have no experience.
Hmmm sorry I must have missed your asking before. I just wemt out to double check and it was mm so yes metric and in fact I did a quick remeasurement and it wasn't .050 but probably between .010- .018 diference between the crank journal and bearing. I don't have a new bearing here to reference to but either way centre puching the crank is not a good thing, then again only thing I ever heard of centre punching are bearing races in an evo case to stop them from moving. But what is it your getting at Terry, you got me curious?
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Cncjerry wrote:
I wouldn't be worried about the punch marks as that is common to ensure a press fit but are you saying the crank was worn down where I guess that edge is next to the lobe? .050? Wow. It would have rattled I'll bet.
Geez another post I missed. I remeasured and its no where near .050 mm. I thought a punched crank is a sign of poor workmanship, now I'm confused. I know the crank is tight up and down on the rod and nothing out of the ordinary for sideways on the rod. I was most suspicious when the cases came apart so easily. Come to think of it the inner part of the bearing would be doing the spinning so I can see how a punched crank would be a non issue.
Cncjerry can you be more specific of the area your asking about that may be worn down please?
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jimmyb865 wrote:
TravisNJ wrote:
It's mine, by the way.
Hey...there ya go.

"Lynn meet Travis, Travis meet Lynn"

Hey Lynn, that tank would be a strong purchase in the right direction.

You could build a bike around that.........kinda like the commercial where the lady puts the fancy faucet on the architects desk and says "design me a house around this".
Sorry I missed this post.
Acknowledged
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jamesjohn wrote:
aww shit Lynn! grab the Rally case! is it 180 or 200? if its 200 you are set.

2 words, parts availability.

sprint is not bad either, cheaper thats for sure. but the rally 200 is the best engine Piaggio ever produced for these vintage bikes.
Are you referring to the cases Gickspeed has aren't they vnb cases?
God I'm getting so confused. Crying or Very sad emoticon
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Ok we gotta get some some reiterated here guys.
-With the 125 rally cases that the guy is selling on scootnet will the guts from my vbb fit into them?
-Is it ok to have a crank that the journal or journals have been centre punched?
I'm really getting confused with all the cases and what fits in what.
Thanks
Lynn
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Lynnb wrote:
Ok we gotta get some some reiterated here guys.
-With the 125 rally cases that the guy is selling on scootnet will the guts from my vbb fit into them?
-Is it ok to have a crank that the journal or journals have been centre punched?
I'm really getting confused with all the cases and what fits in what.
Thanks
Lynn
1-> NO. Its a Rally 180 case (They didn't make any Rally other than the 180 and then 200). Nothing of your engine will fit into that casing.

2-> I'm not really sure what you are asking.
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Ok so I'm really confused now then, why do all my scooter buddies here suggest I buy a rally set of cases if nothing from my motor will work with it? The set of cases for sale on scootnet are showing as 125 http://scoot.net/classifieds/forsale.html?id=39770

Travis basicly what I'm asking is as you seen in the pic of my crank, the journal where the bearing fits over is centre punched ( 2 punches side by side all the way around) is this ok ?
Lynn
⚠️ Last edited by Lynnb on UTC; edited 1 time
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Just sent you picks of a complete bottom end. It's an early vbb, not vnb. Crank is good and rotary is perfect.

These cases will do just fine in your Asian bike if you go that route.
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Lynnb wrote:
Ok so I'm really confused now then, why do all my scooter buddies here suggest I buy a rally set of cases if nothing from my motor will work with it? The set of cases for sale on scootnet are showing as 125 http://scoot.net/classifieds/forsale.html?id=39770

Travis basicly what I'm asking is as you seen in the pic of my crank, the journal where the bearing fits over is centre punched ( 2 punches side by side all the way around) is this ok ?
Lynn
Okay, the easiest way to get this across is as such:

Nothing of your motor will fit into anything post VBB. AKA nothing will fit into a GL, GS, Sprint, Super, Rally180/200, SS180, P125X, P150X, P200E, etc.

I think a lot of people are skeptical about your bottom end (driveshaft/gears and christmas tree) since nothing else looked good in the motor yet. I wouldn't be surprised if we got some coke can shims in the gearbox.
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TravisNJ wrote:
Lynnb wrote:
Ok so I'm really confused now then, why do all my scooter buddies here suggest I buy a rally set of cases if nothing from my motor will work with it? The set of cases for sale on scootnet are showing as 125 http://scoot.net/classifieds/forsale.html?id=39770

Travis basicly what I'm asking is as you seen in the pic of my crank, the journal where the bearing fits over is centre punched ( 2 punches side by side all the way around) is this ok ?
Lynn
Okay, the easiest way to get this across is as such:

Nothing of your motor will fit into anything post VBB. AKA nothing will fit into a GL, GS, Sprint, Super, Rally180/200, SS180, P125X, P150X, P200E, etc.

I think a lot of people are skeptical about your bottom end (driveshaft/gears and christmas tree) since nothing else looked good in the motor yet. I wouldn't be surprised if we got some coke can shims in the gearbox.
Thanks Travis that does help me out a lot , I think I understand a bit more. Working a double today( seem to be doing that a lot this yr) I already took pictures of the driveshaft gears and Xmas tree but there on my laptop and I will post them tomorrow. I did find that where the gears ran on the shaft there was a bit of wear pattern there but then again I've never seen a new one to compare it to.
Thanks
Lynn
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GickSpeed wrote:
Just sent you picks of a complete bottom end. It's an early vbb, not vnb. Crank is good and rotary is perfect.

These cases will do just fine in your Asian bike if you go that route.
Thanks Jon I got the email and replied back
Lynn
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Lynn,
Just wanted to butt in with saying that you should just worry about the main components for the case you go with. If you have it done, let the builder put in the CORRECT smaller bits if the ones you already have aren't right. It shouldn't add that much to the bill & easier/safer for you. If you do it & need a small part, just post up & if it can be mailed in a small padded envelope or box, the chances are someone here would just send you one for postage. If it's not a) a decent cruciform or b) something rare & valuable.(insert joke here)

T
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Lynn, I sent you a PM regarding the punched crank. It is lengthy and I will add to it here.

It is not unusual to punch a shaft to prevent the inner race from spinning on the shaft. This is done for ball bearings, not connecting rod bearings.

Anyone who's taken an electric motor apart and found the centrifugal switch riding on the wrong part of the shaft will have been told to punch it to fix it. Typical neophytes will punch the switch not the shaft which does almost nothing. Punching a semi-hard to soft shaft raises the metal about .002. You need .0005 on soft metal and less on hard to keep the inner race from spinning. Also, as the shaft wears up to .002" or as much as .005" you can punch them to reset the bearing. You can also use loctite red to set the bearing. I generally turn down the offending part of the shaft, apply weldment, turn it on the lathe then finish grind the shaft. This leaves a very hard area for the inner race.

Rod and some main bearings are nothing but hard steel, hard as woodpecker teeth as they say and are made to ride on a hardened, ultra-smooth, journal. these are also called journal bearings. They are made that way for several reasons, the first being you can't put a closed-race bearing on a journal, they have less play, and are very strong. You can't punch the play out though, if it was an Indo vespa, I'll bet someone has tried. So that is maybe what you were thinking.

You had stated that you measured the gap at .050. If that is in mm, you are fine with the punch marks as that would be .0019". If that is the case, then that loose bearing isn't that loose and it is unlikely that it wobbled and ruined your pad. But it looks like, and I don't know if this is an option, like there was a bad bearing at one time that caused the pad damage, or by looking at your crank, and someone else please chime-in, it looks like it was worn or turned down and someone put an odd sized bearing in there. There is a lip between the lobe and the punched shaft. So are there undersized replacement bearings made for worn cranks? It looks like about .5mm which would be 1mm inner diameter undersized.

I hope someone is reading all this as I am typing on my mac-air and hard to read Crying or Very sad emoticon

So this thing ran when you bought it, correct? It would have been clanking, banging and vibrating like hell if it was smacking the case. So it must have happened some other time, I would think.

Here's what I would do: Get a brass bushing from me, (send me the specs), a $10 gasket kit, a couple of loose bearings from someone on here, throw it back together and see if it runs, maybe better than before. Then fix and paint the frame all the while looking for the right engine. You would also put a new loom, cables, brakes, etc on it and have something (assuming it runs) to put around on while finding the engine.
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Use some bearing retainer compound, too.
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SFvsr wrote:
Use some bearing retainer compound, too.
Never heard of bearing retainer compound, is that like red lock tite?
I do use a green loctite for seals.
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Thanks cncjerry that is some really interesting reading and a lot to think about. Problem with putting my motor back together is it needs a top end and the cases are worn quite a bit, basicly has a lot of problems. I will more than likely just get another motor.
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Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2542
 
Ossessionato
@lynnb avatar
1963 VBB2T
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2542
UTC quote
Ok here's the pictures as asked for of what I consider major components of the engine that some I suspect are worn to extreme.
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