Modern Vespa

http://blog.motorcycle.com/2012/01/24/industry-news/2011-us-motorcycle-sales-results/

Motorcyle Industry Council Stats: Note the US is one-percent of Honda and Yamaha worldwide sales. No wonder they don't bring products to the US. Imagine Piaggio they sell virtually nothing here. Scooter sales are growing, but still very small. I think the bulk are Chinese brands.

Type

2011 Q1

2012 Q1

Change

% Change



ATV

47,702

50,107

+2,405

+5.0%



Dual Sport

6,697

7,549

+852

+12.7%



Off-Hwy

18,725

17,473

-1,252

-6.7%



On-Hwy

70,879

77,103

+6,224

+8.8%



Scooter

6,246

7,300

+1,054

+16.9%



Motorcycle
Sub-Total

102,547

109,425

+6,878

+6.7%



Grand
Total

150,249

159,532

+9,283

+6.2%


[Source: MIC]

On the positive side, the scooter sales are growing by the largest percent.

Yes they are. And that is very good. They are addictive. Lothar, you ever meet any of the NC County Scooter Club folks?. San Clemente Club group? Ride with them?

That is certainly not my impression around here - unless you call Taiwanese scooters "Chinese brands" . Have you seen any numbers that actually break this down?

Yes, you can find out how many motorcycles/scooters of each brand are sold in any geographic location by being a member of the Motorcycle Industry Council. Each dealer knows exactly who is selling what and in what numbers by being a member. The average citizen of course must beg to see the numbers. Most often they are refused it is "trade only" information. You are right, there is big difference between Chinese and other eastern manufacturing outlets. But, Piaggio signed a agreement to have engines built in main land China in 2008 for world wide distribution. So, Chinese may not mean all bad if given the right circumstances. China will emerge as a quality manufacturing outlet in time.

Right now it appears though that many people buy on price point, so that means less costly scooters, that usually means China due to labor cost. For every $7000 OTD Vespa, there are 10 whatevers sold. BMW certainly thinks Kymco has something to offer in terms of capability. So, do borders really matter? Or is it competence? Remember Harley-Davidson utilizes Porsche for R&D.

Good news for scooter folks. But, I always wonder why there is never more national advertising for any of the major brands here in the U.S. I realize that in many other countries, scooters and cycles are often the main form of transportation, but I just can't help but think sales here would be much better if there was a better sales effort.

Vespa sales in the US are up 68% since 2010.
In order to put millions of Americans on scooters as one should move them from suburbs to cities , give fuel and tax incentives and change mentality. Any of above is not real nowadays.

I do my part in steering people away from Chinese scoots, suggesting that they are always better off buying a well used Japanese, Italian or Taiwanese brand over a new Chinese one, unless it says Honda or another quality brand on it). I'm sure there are exceptions, but the few friends I know that bought Chinese ones have had major failures within the first year. Yet I show up on my 32 yr old P200, 9 yr old BV200 or my 5 yr old Met all the time and they are impressed how they just go day after day. On a good note, at least I got them scootering. I might add that when shopping in general I always look to see where something is made, spend an extra dollar or 2 or not or a few minutes to keep my pennies out of China. I know my cell phones, laptop etc comes from there and accept it . Imagine the economy here and elsewhere if every shopper thought like like that. Sorry if I strayed a bit off topic, thank the Chivas Regal for that.

I repeat, in this area I do not see China-built scoots as the biggest seller. I am interested in whether there are any actual numbers that support this. (and, Kymco is a Taiwanese company)

To further fuel the discussion, some of Kymco's models are built in China, not Taiwan.

True, but like every major manufacturer who builds in China, Kymco keeps a watchful eye on quality to ensure their reputation for quality is not jeapodized.

I passed no judgement, just clarifying the facts.

Honda builds the new 125cc scoooter they sell in Europe in Italy. They also built in China, other Asian countires. They license in India and Korea. Triumph Bonneville is built in Thailand. Piaggio builds scooters in the Balkans, Romania. All Italian bicycles except the $6-10,000 are from Taiwan. You may not know where any thing is was built in toto. All you can honestly say is this Kymco is not a Japanese company. Piaggio is not an Chinese company. Many companies are expanding to Africa where the cheapest labor is. As for sub-components, they can come from anywhere and do. Everyone is in a global market hunting for the lowest price for materials and goods that meet spec. The consumer wants to believe "my scooter is all Italian" Or "my bike is British". Maybe, maybe not. The Italians or English certainly engineered and designed it. Is that enough? A Stellia is LML of India. Buddy Taiwan. NOT US as some bloggers say.

I know nothing of Portland or Seattle. But I do know that all motorcycle dealers know exactly what the other dealers are selling in terms of models and quanity. The professional dealer organizations track this for them as they pay them for it. They report it monthly and quarterly. If, If, if you ask one of your local dealers or maybe research it on line you may get the stats. But is is usually confidential information. Why? It is their livelihood. And honestly consumers are pretty ingorant about the business end anyway. The only want the bike or in this case the scooter.

So, there is no confusion: Marketing is this: who is my consumer, age, income, gender, geographic location, income potential, buying habits, past purchases, taste, and culture. What do they want?

Advertising is this: Here is my product. See how great it is. Come test ride it. Let's make a deal. Choose your color. Great gas mileage. Great technology. Get their attention! Create cool!

Sales: How do you want to finance it? Accessories? Like the test ride? Here is a deal you can't refuse. Give me your money!

Italians already understand the US market. They have tried and failed several times over, so they are catching on. Ducati figured it out. Fiat is figuring it out. Hey they saved Chrysler. What is lacking is the advertising. You rarely see Italian scooter products being advertised.

But money is not unlimted. You put your money in countries where you get the big bang. Our market is minor. 31,000 scooters sold in early 2012. How
many were Vespas? I don't know, but Piaggio does and so does your local dealer. How many were others? I'd say the bulk due to low cost. Go on line and the read speech made by the CEO of Piaggio to the dealers in Costa Mesa, CA. Oh, yes he fully understands the difficulty of the American market all too well. We are not like the rest of the world. Motorsports has ridden the coat tails of the baby boomers and now the train has stopped. Few new young buyers are coming into the market. So, even if Vespa sells 63% more it means nothng unless you know the baseline. 2 is 100% of 1.

No dealer owns any thing in his/her show room. It is floor planned. They pay a small interest on the MSRP to a bank or finance company to have it available for you to buy. That is why it must move fast. If left unsold it must be returned and resold to the distributor. That is why Piaggio sells 2009s as 2012s. Nothing is built until the old is sold off. Production must match sales. But Vepas change slowly so you can do this. Inventory control.

MP3s are such a disaster that 2009 (2008?) are still sitting unsold. Why import more? The finance company won't take them. And without them you have NO business. Want more Vespas that do sell, well take a few of the unsold MP3s and we will think about it. Who is typical MP3 buyer, I've no idea. Neither does the local dealer. He is still looking for them.
Very long protracted comment. The scooter business is not for the faint of heart.

This post was not quite
What we were hoping to see
Try again, perhaps?

That may be true in the US, it is not true in the UK. My dealer pays for each showroom model outright, mostly out of his own capital, a small amount on overdraft from the bank (as this makes business sense for other reasons, like keeping a working line of credit open). This, combined with the lack of recognition of 'model year', protects him to some extent from swings in the economic climate.

The same is true for customers - a smaller proportion buy on finance in the UK than seems to be the case in the US (I'm told).

I saw a Honda Met writeup in one of my MC mags. Very nice write up with pics and price. However they should do more advertising on TV. We don't need it here so much because we have a zillion but there the Chinese ones mostly.

A lot of words, but back to my question. Where are there any actual numbers that support China-scoots (non-brand name knockoff scooters built in mainland China) constituting the majority of scooter sales in the US. You said it a couple of times, but I don't see anything that actually supports that contention. (not looking to start an argument, simply want to see some actual numbers as my observations in the local area don't match up with this)

Certainly true Gordy. Kymco has some lower cost models built at Chinese facilities under Kymco supervision, just as Piaggio does. In this case, though, the discussion was about the Kymco engine in the new BMW scooter. My understanding is that engine is designed and built in Taiwan.

It's okay to post an excerpt of an article with a link back to the original source. Please don't cut and paste entire articles here, though.

I spend a great deal of time in New York. This is just anecdotal, but in trendy neighbourhoods there has been a noticeable increase in the number of Vespas in the last couple of years, and they have certainly caught on with the more well-heeled members of New York's gay community.

I thought this thread was about motor scooter sales in the US, didnt realize it was BMW-centric.
Thanks for setting me straight.

I am surprised by NYC market. As many remember, beatniks owned many Vespa in NYC in 60's, especially in Greenwich Village. After all NYC( Manhattan), in my opinion, is perfect city for scootering. However if you see two or three a day you are lucky. Compare it to 10-30 a second in major EU capitals

I didn't intend to be snippy Gordy. The thread IS about scooter sales in the US. I was responding to the post about Kymco being the engine supplier for the BMW C600/C650 as an indication of Chinese scooter quality.

Second largest, dual sports are 14.2% scooters are only 11.8%.

FWIW, despite the number of places over on Harwin selling cheap, dirt cheap as low as $400 for a "150cc" scooter I see very few of them on the road in Houston. Today I saw 3 scooters while I was having coffee. 1 Vespa, 1 Kymco and one Honda Met. In my neighborhood I see more Vespas followed by Burgmans than any other. Around town I see a lot of Kymcos and Buddies, lots of Buddies as well as Vespas, Aprilia (good dealer here who has sold a bunch of 2009 Sports Citys this last year frequently running out of stock with the next order of 50-70% sold before they arrive at his shop) and a few Syms, Yamaha Majesty and Silverwings. Saw a Honda PCX several times recently, smaller than I had expected from the pictures I'd seen.

There are a lot more scooters in Houston than ever and it is a rare day I don't see at least a couple while I'm out. More on the weekend but that's true of all PTW around here. I see chinese clones/crap in the range of 1 PofC for every 50+ name brand scoots. Why I can't say but that's been my observation.

There are now parts of New York where you can see two or three within a couple of blocks

But yes, it's a long way from Europe.

I think that the main issue in New York is that people would rather drive a car and that gas prices remain low enough that they can afford to do so, and that for many people safety may also be an issue. One doesn't even see that many motorcycles in the city. As you may know, New York is about to have a significant public bicycle rental programme. It will be interesting to see how much it is used.

What has exploded in the last couple of years is the use of mopeds, but mostly on the part of delivery people and some Asians.