Modern Vespa

at days end i agreed to the sale...so its on me for not researching first. I have a motorcycle shop and have been working on bikes since i was 10. so im not worried about fixing it mechanically. i have sandblasters, a paint booth and everytool known to exist...just want to make sure my old lady would be safe around town...i guess ill start tearing it apart and see how deep this money pit goes.

might be onto something there abuello. that way the dudes hackles won't be up

Thanks for all the advice guys. But I'm not gonna lie to the guy. I'll take the lick for buying without research. Lesson learned and hopefully it's not as bad as everyone thinks its gonna be.

The one question I did have. Especially since I'm stuck with it. Where can I get parts when I figure out what I need?

No doubt, you will get an ear full on vendors, as well.
Here's a list, I have on file....
For OEM/used ....
http://www.kylesscootershop.com/
http://scoot.net/classifieds/

For new.....
http://www.scootermercato.com/
http://www.scooterworks.com/
http://www.scooterwest.com/items/Vintage-Vespa-Parts/91
http://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/main/base/home.aspx
(contact Travis on this site for bundling deals)
http://www.speedoking.com/ (good for speedo refurbishing)
http://www.scootersoriginali.com/
http://www.allmotorcyclekeys.com/ (lock and key questions)

There may be others, but, for metal replacement panels I have used "SIP". the gauge is good, the quality of fit excellent.

For engine work, I have good experiences with "Gickspeed" another frequent poster on this site. He does head mods, as well.

I'm sure there are other talents here, but this is my qwik-list.

For information, help lines and specs.....
http://www.scooterlounge.com/vespa/repair-guides/index.shtml
http://www.scooterhelp.com/

This will get you started...Oh, did I mention "Modern Vespa"?

Good luck!

Parts are easy to get than you think.
Your on the right track by starting to inspect the chassis, so far in my case just the floor was replaced off a different model, just dropped mine off to get frame sandblasted and filling in the signal lite holes. I was already planning to get a good paint job on it before I even bought it so paint is no biggy.
As for your motor, these are nothing like the Harley motors we're use to wrenching on, my cases are super worn out and needs a crank and topend, probably total cost is $489.50 and that does pretty much everything other than tranny and a couple other major parts,http://www.scootermercato.com/OVERHAULKIT-VBB lots of guys on here sell parts as well in fact there's a sticky at the top of the Not-So-Moderm forum.In my experience these bikes are super cheap to bring back to life, you just have to decide which way you want to go.
If you can pull off the side car and take 360 degree pictures of the scoot , bottom, top rear end, under the wheel well , rear, frame joints, underfloor etc. We can then nitpick and give you places to follow up on just to make sure its safe.
As soon as my wife said she wanted to ride it around the neibourhood the alarms went off and new I had to dive in. She rides her own 89 Heritage and although these scoots are a fraction of the weight being thrown around I still want it safe.
If your willing to throw some time and probably some money into it you will have a nice project.
Hopefully my post isn't discourageing , wasn't meant to be.
Lynn

I know exactley how you feel about the research, I never would have thought so much bad can be done to a "scooter" and so I too never did any research and said to my wife,if I'm going to get one its gotta be old so I can tinker with it, hahaha getting my wish.
Lynn

thanks guys for all the info...ill get under and around it tonight and take a ton of pics and show you the paperwork, maybe yyou all can shed some light on this project for me and tell me what needs to be repaired/replaced...i wanna restore it to factory

Post the Vin#s, too.
Happy Trails...

Consider this....
You'll probably have about the same amount of money or more into your scooter when it's done and over, for what you could be buying now..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2012-Stella-Vespa-remake-150cc-Scooter-with-sidecar-200-Miles-Can-deliver-/110981710199?pt=Scooters_Mopeds&hash=item19d7068177#ht_552wt_1149

I have a 2005 Stella with sidecar... I paid $3500 for it. Running great with only 1200 miles on it.
The benefits of the Stella is that it has many modern functions... electric start, blinkers, disc brake, etc etc... parts are everywhere and cheap.

Thats for a newer bike, personally I wanted a vintage as old a bike as I could get.

That's why I got it. Love vintage everything. Been wanting a classic Vespa or years. Saw this thing and fell in love. Guy showed me his original paperwork for it. He paid $3500. Gonna take a bunch of pics now. Gonna definately need a motor. Who's got one for sale.

Seriously, the motor is the least of your worries, ESPECIALLY if the frame is welded together Frankensteined death trap.

I wouldn't spend a penny on a single part until I was sure the frame was safe.
You might get the motor running, but then what? Take a test drive and kill your wife and yourself when the frame snaps in half at top speed? The horror stories are real.

There are some good photos and stories about what you might be in for under that paint job, here: http://www.rovers-usa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1938

Underneath the pretty clothes and makeup, it's just another mechanical thing. Clothes rot and makeup cracks and runs.

Your original post said it had been in the crate thirty years. Is that what the paperwork indicated? The '80s? Most any vintage metal something sitting that long will show cracked body filler, rust underneath paint, etc. Shoddy work won't even store that long. It takes a really, really good body man to keep that from happening. The 80's was my first look at front wheel drive Japanese unibody make one car from two welded together, here in the USA and driven many miles.

In the right place, under the right wrong conditions, it could be subjected to enough abuse to feel better about structural integrity, now that originality is out of the picture. I couldn't do it, but I could find a few 200+ pound teenagers to test it. Potholes and washboard dirt roads type testing. If it looks as good in person as in the pictures, I would hesitate to dive into paint removal. Some heavy abuse should reveal cracks and missing chunks. Don't pour money and hours into it before trying to drive it. Sidecars aren't for everyone. Neither are scooters without a sidecar. 2500 bucks is the upper range for selling an original decent vintage Vespa, with a few exceptions. Except for the more rare models, there is little demand. Hats off to shops trying to make a living repairing/restoring.

I don't endorse bodgery or unsafe mechanical practices. Restomods and street rods safely carry their riders many miles and somewhat represent the original design.

Not to detract from the many issues at play in bodged chassis Vespas, is anyone able to provide a valid case where one caused a death to support the "death trap" labels? Or is it just hyperbole? The infamous Aussie collapsed Lambretta caused no injury, and IIRC, was not moving at the time it caved in.

That said, bodges still need to be stamped out.

I have a bridge to sell anyone who believes that.
Not sure if it's really a death trap(probably not), but a money pit frankenscooter yes.






Rob

(waiting for doc scans & closeups)

But now the experts already know, i'm still just learning here. BTW, good job navigating that nasty fork in the road. So you wife is/was going to drive it?

It's not hyperbole.

How about severe head trauma, loss of ability to work and/or live independently, loss of fine motor skills and/or mobility?

There are very real legal reasons why we can't be more specific. Needless to say, we are doing everything we can to keep people and their loved ones away from unsafe scooters. We do NOT service in any way Southeast Asian "restorations," and no reputable mechanic will.

It's disheartening that we STILL see people trying to defend or otherwise downplay the dangers these bikes present, especially when it's someone who should probably know better. When we try to warn people to do their research and return dangerous bikes back to unscrupulous sellers and they decide to ignore our advice, it makes us wonder if we shouldn't just drop it and let nature take its course.

I remember a post a while back about a woman condemning vietnamese restorations. I remember she posted about her husband getting into an accident where he was cruising along, and the front brake accuated somehow and caused him to endo. I was looking for the post but a ton of results if you query "bodge", and plain just cant find it when I try to narrow the results with some key words. Maybe someone can find the thread or better yet, know the person or story i'm speaking of and can highlight more events and causes.

everyone always screams the sky is falling when it comes to bodges. I have only ever seen ONE PHOTO of one that was actually welded together poorly in the middle, and it was a Lambretta. most of the time the "death trap" comes from the fact that nuts and bolts are left off (or wrong) and the engine is poorly assembled.

had cheaply and corrected professionally, bodges are no worse than any other crappy barn find vespa. think of the things americans do to cheap transportation. I've seen "real vespas" more dangerous than a lot of bodges...

1963 vespa vbb freshen up ( caution lots of pics )

your best bet is to get some of your money back (what did you pay for it?) and either sell off the good parts, or prepare to sink a ton of money into it fixing everything that could be wrong.

however... 99% chance you AREN'T sitting on a death trap, as everyone else is claiming.

Saturn.....
Someone may not be sitting on a death trap, but the chances are much higher if they are riding around a vietnamese resto. I had the same thinking you had, but when I helped a buddy out sort out his lambretta he bought from e-bay, i told him there is no Effin way i would trust it. EVERYPART you removed you had to fix something else. I thought the use of tin cans and shims were a lie or a myth, but holy crap they were everywhere, brakes, carb, shimmed in the flywheel....total ugliness.

rufio- I'm not saying it isn't a death trap, I'm saying it's most likely just put together all wrong and had some shitty welding done to it. it's not as if vietnamese people purposely take vespas and boobytrap them to sell to americans.

most bodges I've personally touched just had way too much bondo covering up some minor dings and dents, wrong bolts used, and generally "put together completely wrong" with cheap parts more than anything.

the cracked lambretta thing is the only one I've seen that actually IS a death trap.

best bet is for him to get his money back (or some of it) and start sandblasting.

Here are pictures of a frame that has cracks beneath it from it being cobbled together from what looks to be tons of welds to hold together a bunch of pieces.

1963 vespa vbb freshen up ( caution lots of pics )

I don't care whether or not it is a bodge. I don't care if it came from Poland or India. And I encourage you/everyone with a bodge to keep buying them and buying tons of parts for them. These people alone are responsible for a considerable portion of the business parts retailers get.

It needs an exhaust! Buy it!
It needs a fork! Buy it!
It needs a new floor pan! Buy it!
It needs a new shifter tube! Buy it!
Money Money Money Money! I'm stoked.

Spending $1500 on a pile of busted and then spending another $3000 on parts is like someone climbing into your ass and ripping out Christmas through it. It sucks and, honestly, it is embarrassing and can make a person feel like a fool. Nothing I can say will keep anyone form doing what they are going to do regardless of the information presented, so I suggest it ends here.

if you read my comment above, I posted that same link. that scooter isn't even from asia and it's in worse condition than most "bodges" I've seen.

bodge or not, if you're getting into vintage vespas and looking to be frugal ... you're going to have a bad time.

Ok bit confused here, how is my scooter 1963 vespa vbb freshen up ( caution lots of pics ) become part of the topic for bad bodges? I've torn mine down, sure motor is baffed, sure the floor has been replaced with a pseries floor along with the rear brake, sure theres a glove box in front that shouldn't be there, sure it has some half assed wiring , sure the rear fender had a patch welded in, sure it has aftermarket speed and clutch lever isn't original , sure there's signals that shouldn't be there... but so far pending frame at present getting blasted I've found no unsafe condition and with a new motor, signals removed and body work done to fill holes and crappy looking glove box removed, my scooter when completed may be an asian orphan but it will be safe and will shine like the rest of them. And saying all that, if I were to cut the floor out and replace it with a vbb floor and vbb rear brake ( which wouldn't be very inteligent on my behalf as it is already solid ) would it make it a non bodge ? And no I did not find any tin cans for shims.
With alot of ambition and some coin anything can be made to sparkle and be safe. Some of us do get the short end of the stick but its not the end of the world.
Think about it

Daym Lynnb...
You are one Happy MOFO. Excellent candidate for working at Walt Disney World. Nothing phases you. You my friend are quite awesome.
You definately don't belong here. You have regular Modern Vespa demeanor. Not like us JADED NSM folks. Thats right.....I used the term to blanket all NSM.

My point exactley frugal and vintage should not be used in the same room, that should be a given already.
Have you any idea what it cost to redo an 89 flhtp to run like it did the day it came off the assembly line , and I aint talking overseas assembly line, talking hardworking american boys.
Life is a gamble, if you anint got your health, you aint got nothing.
Lynn

Thanks Rufio, ah I think
Lynn

Lynn- no offense meant, I was just saying I've seen "bodges" from Vietnam in better condition

so just because something was poorly restored in Asia doesn't mean it's a death trap (just probably a money pit)

No offense taken, I was just making a point, if your stubborn like me anything can be FIXED. Oh and I love that movie, the money pit.
Lynn

Yes it is. OP said it came from Pakistan.

If I spent $10k on a bodge to get it running and good condition, my wife would kill me. now, THAT is a deathtrap!

Pakistan isn't part of Asia unless you're talking SE Asia like India is in Asia...

either way, my point still stands, just because something is deemed "a bodge" (wrong parts, goofy paint job) doesn't necessarily mean "OMG IT IS GOING TO MURDER YOU!! RUN!!!"

the overreactions make me laugh is all I'm saying.

How many of these have you investigated yourself, from top to bottom? How many times have you been asked to determine the exact cause of failure resulting in accident? In how many legal proceedings have you been asked to testify as an expert witness?

But, yeah, it's all hilarious. Don't listen to anything we say. We're finished with this conversation. It's just nature taking its course.

Keep on laughing.

Can't see 10k being need to fix a "bodge", bikes all there already , if he's anything like me his time is free, and even if he needed a new frame and paint $1000 and the guys obviously able to do the motor, another $1000 tops, these would be the 2 major pieces of the puzzle. Really the rest is peanuts on the grand scale.

BarItalia: if this happens so often, why is it every time it's the photo of the cracked in half Lambretta?? and even if it was more than one, Lambrettas are a completely different design than a Vespa -- doing cosmetic welding on a Lambretta is more dangerous if the tube frame is in similar condition... on a Vespa you're relying on the physics of a unibody frame, which is a way more obvious thing if it's about to fail.

I know bodges aren't always safe, but I have yet to see a Vespa crack in half. everyone seems to think that once a Vespa makes it to Vietnam it is some how magically and forever damned to the scrap pile.

and I understand words of caution to newbies, but telling someone they just dropped $3000 on a death trap is a bit extreme... even if it requires a ton of welding, it's just as bad as a lot of Italian bikes brought over.

these things are 30-50 years old. they're going to have a ton of problems.

The MAJOR problem, that I think all can agree on, is that the ingenious rascals who create these 'bodges' are SO crafty that MOST even mechanically experienced buyers are unable to detect what MIGHT be lurking under the pretty, UNLESS they are specifically bodge aware, and so many 1st time Vespa buyers are NOT. Guess where they head to on the internet when problems occur? AFTER their exciting investment?

yep! but I think there is a difference between a clueless person being scammed and a somewhat-knowledgeable-but-not-really person getting in too deep with what they thought would be an easy project.

unless you assume some part is ok. then a coupld thousand miles down the road it fails and takes out the top end. its best to stop and walk away as soon as you find out its a bodge. of course your mileage may vary.

Harleyrider, Maybe another way out. I knew a guy with shorta the same situation as you, only he bought a great looking bodge for his widower father to putt around with. Spent a lot more than you did on it. When he found out the true facts, he got his dad something else and sold it to an Italian restaurant. They ended up putting it out front of their place and business picked up. Tourists and some of the locals used to like to get their pictures taken on it. It was sold to them with the condition that NOBODY was ever to take it for a ride. He did not get all his money back but it worked out well in the end for both of them.